SOMETHING IS WRONG

[tomexxtra]

It Just doesn't make Sense..
Silver $43 & Gold all time high.
Mining Co. all making more money per ounce than last year or any year.
Yet NOT one on the NYSE, AMX, or NASD are at their yearly;52week] High.
You take out 1 million ounces of silver, last year @ $18.27 & the Company is worth X.
Now with silver @ $43 & the Company's price is the same?
They should ALL [most] be at yearly highs, BUT Yet NOT ONE IS.
SOMETHING IS WRONG

[AgAuGal]

There is a lot wrong, dislocations everywhere one looks. You are right, mining equity prices make no sense, unless there is manipulation. Ok ready for the egg throwing. Dan Norcini made this a talking point this week in KWN.

[Gcubed]

Corporations make money for the officers. Study Sinclair, he's an artist! ;)

[917601]

Paper PM's are still paper, they are bought and sold continuously on computer generated numbers.They follow the fund managers and investment groups money squeezing number loaded programs.The programs know no difference between an oz of silver, gold, or platinum-it is all just a number that increased or decreased-it knows when to sell the attained number or buy it, sometimes a thousand times a day.Yes, something is wrong, and for that very reason is why it will fail.Much like a person, take away "the spirit", the power of divine reasoning, and the body is dead.In short, the markets WILL be "giving up the ghost" in short order.Remember the warning-"what was right is wrong, and what was wrong is right".

[tomexxtra]

On Jim Sinclair's site, [the CEO g-cubed says is ripping off his stockholders].....


Mining shares priced for 2001 gold and silver prices, Norcini tells KWN


The weekly review of the precious metals markets at King World News finds Bill Haynes of CMI Gold & Silver reporting that retail demand remains strong, and futures market expert Dan Norcini reporting that gold and silver mining shares are priced as if the metals were still trading at their 2001 prices. You can listen to the interview here:

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2011/4/16_KWN_Weekly_Metals_Wrap.html

Audio of the recent King World News interview with James Grant of Grant’s Interest Rate Observer has been posted here:

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2011/4/16_James_Grant.html

And audio of the recent King World News interview with resource company broker Rick Rule has been posted here:

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2011/4/16_Rick_Rule.html

[budfox]

It's a small thinly traded market heavily shorted by naked short sellers. Miners are really good at share dilution too.

[Usury]

I'm sure they sold a lot of futures contracts when silver was lower to protect themselves against a sudden drop and now have to honor their contracts. It's called hedging and most any business that deals wth volatile markets has to do it to stay in business. Big PM dealers do this also, so that they don't go out of business when they buy high and sell low...so they really aren't making bank when they buy low and sell high either.

[jelly]

The stock prices are priced in what investors see as the long-term profitability of a company. In other words, investors don't think these metals prices are going to last. Couple that with people going short in attempt to profit off a coming correction, you have stagnating prices.

This has happened on both the last 2 peaks we had in gold. When the gold stocks did eventually start moving with gold, it was right before gold had a large correction. (If I remember right. Someone tell me I'm wrong if I am.)

[minimus]

It Just doesn't make Sense..
Silver $43 & Gold all time high.
Mining Co. all making more money per ounce than last year or any year.
Yet NOT one on the NYSE, AMX, or NASD are at their yearly;52week] High.
You take out 1 million ounces of silver, last year @ $18.27 & the Company is worth X.
Now with silver @ $43 & the Company's price is the same?
They should ALL [most] be at yearly highs, BUT Yet NOT ONE IS.
SOMETHING IS WRONG

RegShow FAIL

[Ebie]

What is happening to PE ratios?
Avg dividend's paid?
If these things are going positive, and, there is no stock dilution due to slpits or naked shorts (etc), then the market is irrational.
And it can remain irrational for a certain period of time.



It Just doesn't make Sense..
Silver $43 & Gold all time high.
Mining Co. all making more money per ounce than last year or any year.
Yet NOT one on the NYSE, AMX, or NASD are at their yearly;52week] High.
You take out 1 million ounces of silver, last year @ $18.27 & the Company is worth X.
Now with silver @ $43 & the Company's price is the same?
They should ALL [most] be at yearly highs, BUT Yet NOT ONE IS.
SOMETHING IS WRONG

[jogslvr]

If the stock market behaved rationally, I would have retired a millionaire many moons ago. Sombich makes Vagas look penny-ante.

[SevenEyedJeff]

The FED is propping up the stock market....that is, except for the miners. :biggrin: Why would they support the miners? If they take off to the moon, their scheme is that much closer to over.

Well, they suppressed the price of PMs for so long; did you expect different from PM-related stocks?

[ME Co.]

I heard this explained once. The miners are all about longevity, at lower spot prices they have to run richer ground to profit, higher spot and they can profitably run poorer ground (which there is more of) therefor increasing the lifespan of the mine and keeping the miners employed. And the hedge bit from the OP sounds plausible as well. HH Mark

[Lore]

GATA talked about this over the weekend. Last week, Goldman Sachs advised getting out of PM shares.

:banghead:

There are some stirrings about illegal naked shorting in Canadian institutions as well, but no details yet.

[tomexxtra]

Stewart Thomson
Recommending GDX
GDX launch pad @ 64
http://www.321gold.com/editorials/thomson_s/thomson_s_041911.html

Yesterday some Short Squeeze finally on Jr. mining stocks
Samex mining [SMXMF] up 60%
Jaguar mining [JAG] up 10%

[Avalon]

this is why I got out of mining stocks. After suffering through them for almost 10 years I gave up. I did mange to make a decent profit but when i saw my tax bill on that profit I decided it was not worth the risk..

For those still in mining stocks Bob Chapman swears they will take off like a big ass rocket later in the bull market. Since I have not seen them decouple from equaties yet I was not willing to chance it but he makes a good argument.

[jogslvr]

Miners are popping today on Freeport earnings

[hoarder]

Many if not most of the major mining companies are owned/controlled by bankers. Their objective is to prevent PM's from becoming an alternative to fiat. By owning miners they perpetuate the manipulative practice of forward selling.
They don't control mining companies so they can profit from the product being mined. All the gold and silver in the world is not worth one percent of being able to issue money out of thin air.

[Pyramid]

There was a fairly acceptable and rational article on Kitco that (partially) explains why the mining shares have been slumping lately. Basically, the cost of energy (oil) was the culprit.

"Why Gold Stocks are Struggling Despite Record Price"
link:
http://www.kitco.com/ind/Trendsman/apr182011.html

[tomexxtra]

I was yelling in 2000 that Gold was too cheap [$285 to $300] finally in 2009
"The Gold Experts" say gold will go higher, after it went up 17% a year for eight years.
Where were they 8 years ago?

Now after it breaks $1000 in 2009 they ask me is it time to invest in "Gold".
You got to be nuts? You had a chance to invest @ $300, $400,$500,$600,$700,$800,$900
and now @ over $1000 plus you think it's a good investment?
So I say Silver $17 is the cheapest price, the Gold to Silver ratio is @ 80 the highest ever.
Buy Silver, best investment out there.
Now Silver finally goes up today @$45 the Gold/Silver ratio goes down to 35 [still should be 20]
"The Experts" say buy Silver it will go higher.
Where were they when Silver was $17?

A] The only thing that hasn't gone up.
B}The experts are not yelling to buy it yet.
C] It's Dirt cheap



MOST ALL GOLD & SILVER Mining Stocks are DIRT CHEAP
They are Near their 4 year old prices. when gold was $900 & Silver was $18
When the people find this out they will start jumping.
Than the "Experts" will say in a year or two buy the mining stocks
those are the ones going up. Be Smart buy it before "The Experts"
If your not sure which to buy GDX Or GDXJ are great baskets of mining Companies.

[wrs]

Miners lag the metal many times. Funds are big miner investors and right now the retail sector is the momo sector. That will change, the miners will benefit from rotation. Many miners are up 100% from a year ago, you just have to follow them closely and move in and out of them to make money with them. Miners are not buy and hold like their products. They have to be traded in order to profit from their volatility.

The only miner I have that worked as a buy and hold was GG from 2002. The rest have all been buy low sell high and watch for the corrections so you sell as high as possible and buy as low as possible. That way I have made good money with them although sometimes I have to hold a losing position for a year or more before it becomes profitable again.

I got toasted on CDE back in the summer of 2008 but I bought it all the way down and now my position is at a 50% profit level. I have also bought and sold for profit on the stock during that time so in all, I have not lost a nickel on it but instead made money with it. Right now I own KGC, GG, CDE, GSS, GBG and SIL. I think KGC is ridiculously under priced and should get some love soon. I have bought in and out of GSS for the last 8 years and sometimes it screws me, like now. I had sold all my position last fall at 5 for a double and then started buying back in at about $4.20 but it cratered to $3 and so I was forced to average down and now I am in it with my largest position ever at $3.55. However, that is not a high price for GSS since I expect it to trade back over $5 later this year and at that point I will unload half the position and wait until it hits $6 to dump the rest. I have been buying in and out of GG for years as well. My core position which is usually 50% is at an average $11. The other half right now is at $45. I sold it at $48 in the summer of 2008 and bought back in around $30. Then I sold half of it last fall at $48 and bought back in at $45, in retrospect I should have waited longer and I could have got back in at $40 but you don't always pick the lowest spot.

You have to know the prices of the stocks and know when you want to sell and when you want to buy. If you do, you make money and grow your portfolio. That is how I play them and since I need real companies with real earnings, I don't do juniors, just mid-tier and the bigger players.

One more thing to add, when the public starts getting involved with gold and silver, they will buy the stocks first. If coins are in short supply, stocks will be purchased instead, through ETFs and mutual funds as well as directly. If you are in them now and know how to play them, you will clean up.

[skyvike]

Many if not most of the major mining companies are owned/controlled by bankers. Their objective is to prevent PM's from becoming an alternative to fiat. By owning miners they perpetuate the manipulative practice of forward selling.
They don't control mining companies so they can profit from the product being mined. All the gold and silver in the world is not worth one percent of being able to issue money out of thin air.

Quoted for extreme, nail-on-the-head truth.

[aggregatio mentium]

You reep what you sow.

[cpthnsolo]

Excellent first post wrs.


Miners lag the metal many times. Funds are big miner investors and right now the retail sector is the momo sector. That will change, the miners will benefit from rotation.

This statement sums up the reason why miners have lagged a bit of late. Sectors fall in and out of fashion quickly and as such sometimes prices just don't seem to make sense without looking deeper (e.g. there have been a number of days that silver is up but SLW is down). Traders, fund managers, hedgies, etc. have made oodles and oodles of cash in the miners during this run so as spot approaches all time highs why wouldn't they be selling to lock in profit? Don't fret about it though because as soon they see another follow through/ break-out day for metals some will start moving back in for the next leg up. If you're a short term trader you definitely need to be careful with the miners right now and consider using trailing stop losses.

:)

[earplugs]

what's the difference between stocks of a company and fiat? at least with fiat, you can buy stuff. you don't even own the stocks you buy. might as well pretend with little kid about having tea.

[wrs]

Excellent first post wrs.

Thank you but it isn't actually my first post, it is with the new board. I haven't used the ID for a long time. I was one of the earlier members on the first board, I signed up in Sep 2003. Apparently there was a board split and so I had to get a new ID to post over here.

[cpthnsolo]

what's the difference between stocks of a company and fiat? at least with fiat, you can buy stuff. you don't even own the stocks you buy. might as well pretend with little kid about having tea.

There's no need to explain stocks as a percent of ownership on these boards as most posters here believe only physical gold and silver count for anything and everything. However for those stupid fools brave enough to tinker in the markets on some level, playing the miners has been a windfall over the last year. So silver has doubled in less than a year, great! However many of the Ag miners are up 3, 4, or 5x or more. In a nutshell playing with the miners is simply a way to cash in on gold and silver's run without having to actually sell any metal. After a major run like this simply take profits, withdraw $ from your account to buy physical on the next correction, and then repeat when the next break-out occurs. At least that's the goal anyway ;) .

[partner1]

I've been a hedge fund trader for the past 20 years, in my humble opinion the biggest explanation for stock underperformance is the advent of the gold and silver etf's in the past 5 years. Ten years ago i worked for a faily large hedge fund that traded aggressively based on momentum and technicals. Whenever we wanted to take a position for a move in gold, we would buy a basket (maybe 10) of large to mid-cap miners. Today, that is not neccessary, you can just buy the etf's for a pure price play. Could you imagine the move in the large to mid cap miners if all the capital in GLD and SLV had to find a home in indivual equities.

The junior miners were off limits because of liquidity, it could take us months to accumulate a meaningful position without moving the stock, and getting out is even more difficult in a sell off like that in the fall of 2008.

That said, the only stocks i own are junior miners, on top of my physical stack. And i mean the penny stock variety trading under 1.00. I personally own a basket of 12-15 stocks. I fully expect half of these companies will do nothing or go bankrupt, 2 or 3 to make 2-3 100%, 1 or 2 to make 500%, and 1 or 2 to reach producer level and be home runs. That's my hope anyway.

[Ebie]

Multiple aspects:
Hedging
Mine production longevity strategies
irrational market
naked shorts (counterfeit) shares
energy prices
cost of business/gov't costs

[tomexxtra]

Strange day today;
Metal Bid Ask
Gold $1,561.20 $1,562.20 +25.40
Silver $47.59 $47.65 -0.89
Platinum $1,869.00 $1,876.00 +33.00
Palladium $791.00 $797.00 +19.00

Last updated 4:44 pm



Gold up $25 & Silver down .89 cents. Something is out of wack.
London Gold is not open on Monday.....I hope I can wait till Thurs.to sell some [I already moved my sell date up a day].
Although you could still see $1600 Gold as a strong resistance & $49.80 to $52 on Silver.




Gold & USD: Launching Gold Stocks!
The bull market in gold stocks appears to be near a rebirth and new uptrend. Many analysts and investors assumed the $1500 level would see a significant correction in bullion. Instead, the bears have been focusing their financial guns on the gold stocks.

http://www.321gold.com/editorials/sfs/hubbartt042911.html