ATB 'P' Mint Mark Coin Thread

[earplugs]

Right on, bruh. imagine if gold hits 60 avogadro's number. silver would hit 15 avogadro's number. we'd all be reeeeaaach! praise israel!

[SirOzzyyzzO]

Just a little FYI for all you/us ATB lovers/likers/wanters/seekers/hunter & gatherers:

I ordered 8 Chaco's, from The Mint, and ALL WERE FLAWED! Seven had Milk Spots, two had one or more heavy bag marks or nicks, and one had no milk spots but heavy markings all along her rim & her Obverse had some distracting marks. Cost me $44.35 to return ship. Not worth the time or extra money anymore. I am drawing the line with these... I am liking Silvertown - more & more - fair prices on 70's & Shipping Included.

[HistoryStudent]

Just a little FYI for all you/us ATB lovers/likers/wanters/seekers/hunter & gatherers:

I ordered 8 Chaco's, from The Mint, and ALL WERE FLAWED! Seven had Milk Spots, two had one or more heavy bag marks or nicks, and one had no milk spots but heavy markings all along her rim & her Obverse had some distracting marks. Cost me $44.35 to return ship. Not worth the time or extra money anymore. I am drawing the line with these... I am liking Silvertown - more & more - fair prices on 70's & Shipping Included.

If they run a good low price SOMEWHAT near the 69s - I'm with you on that.

[SirOzzyyzzO]

History,
For example, and I did post this elsewhere too, cost me $284 (If I remember correctly - give or take a few bucks here & there) to slab, ship, & send in the El Yunque's, each, (PCGS 1st Strikes).

$299 A MS-70 Flag, from Silvertown is fair in my book... Expensive nonetheless, but beats fishing for one or two 70's on your own by trying to slab 6 - 8 ones that you've cherry picked to send in... I normally order between 10 & 15 from the Mint knowing that a greater majority will be returned... So, when you factor that portion of the return fee into the equation, I am almost at $300 each coin (I didn't include this into my above posted price). So, I'd be smarter just buying a guaranteed 70 - if they are almost equally priced.

Right now this makes sense, but the rules keep changing with this game, so it's important to be flexible. It is why I appreciate this site and these threads - every little bit helps.

Starting around 2005 up through the release of the UHR's - one was able to order a good deal of coins from the Mint - cherry pick the better ones, then ship ASAP right on into PCGS or NGC (Within the First Strike/Early Release time table only), and mostly likely receive many gifts of 70's.......................... It was a simple system/plan - if one could afford it...

The big boys knew this and tried their best to make it harder for collectors to get this done, and this is the niche that they have succeeded in capturing. I know, because I have sat with two of the big heads and discussed this very simple idea. It has taken them a few years to solidify it, but that is how change happens the best - slowly, & they have certainly changed the game. So, even though they have taken some of the thrill away from collecting - they are, as of now, being fair with their prices, but only because they can and have to - it is our job to see this opportunity and seize it.

In conclusion, I am grateful. If you remember back between 2005 and up - all the first-strike/early-release 70's were about double to almost triple what they cost, so all profit, but hard to get because just the flippers had them and were selling them like hot-cakes. People were thinking that was it - the next big coin to have and there won't be many 70's blah, blah, blah... But, now they are offered by many because the big boys all have deals with the mint and NGC/PCGS companies... In short, saving us money as collectors - in my opinion. But, that is only if you are a believer/collector & know this current economy is allowing/offering us these future gifts at fair prices. Stay tuned because this game changes periodically.

[HistoryStudent]

History,
For example, and I did post this elsewhere too, cost me $284 (If I remember correctly - give or take a few bucks here & there) to slab, ship, & send in the El Yunque's, each, (PCGS 1st Strikes).

$299 A MS-70 Flag, from Silvertown is fair in my book... Expensive nonetheless, but beats fishing for one or two 70's on your own by trying to slab 6 - 8 ones that you've cherry picked to send in... I normally order between 10 & 15 from the Mint knowing that a greater majority will be returned... So, when you factor that portion of the return fee into the equation, I am almost at $300 each coin (I didn't include this into my above posted price). So, I'd be smarter just buying a guaranteed 70 - if they are almost equally priced.

Right now this makes sense, but the rules keep changing with this game, so it's important to be flexible. It is why I appreciate this site and these threads - every little bit helps.

Starting around 2005 up through the release of the UHR's - one was able to order a good deal of coins from the Mint - cherry pick the better ones, then ship ASAP right on into PCGS or NGC (Within the First Strike/Early Release time table only), and mostly likely receive many gifts of 70's.......................... It was a simple system/plan - if one could afford it...

The big boys knew this and tried their best to make it harder for collectors to get this done, and this is the niche that they have succeeded in capturing. I know, because I have sat with two of the big heads and discussed this very simple idea. It has taken them a few years to solidify it, but that is how change happens the best - slowly, & they have certainly changed the game. So, even though they have taken some of the thrill away from collecting - they are, as of now, being fair with their prices, but only because they can and have to - it is our job to see this opportunity and seize it.

In conclusion, I am grateful. If you remember back between 2005 and up - all the first-strike/early-release 70's were about double to almost triple what they cost, so all profit, but hard to get because just the flippers had them and were selling them like hot-cakes. People were thinking that was it - the next big coin to have and there won't be many 70's blah, blah, blah... But, now they are offered by many because the big boys all have deals with the mint and NGC/PCGS companies... In short, saving us money as collectors - in my opinion. But, that is only if you are a believer/collector & know this current economy is allowing/offering us these future gifts at fair prices. Stay tuned because this game changes periodically.

Really down-to-earth solid common sense above. You made me re-think my sp69 is good enough mindset. I've recently started to grab the sp70s and with the MULTIPLE cost right now it's okay. Frankly, I think in five years the collectors will really be chagrined they missed the opportunities herein the SPs in total. They are all south of 30,000 ish units total.

SIR-friend, I recently went through a :thumb.aspx: last year when the prices escalated on gold and silver. I knew it would happen but I did not figure out that like we talked about on the SAINTS months back the premiums would be so affected and EFFECTED. The secondary thing was the total expense for an ounce was interesting. We have the pitter-patter of the hedge monies taking place worldwide right now and the US Dollar being super strong hits the PMs all around the Western world - and that is shown in the recent prices.

I fully expect these huge 5-oz pieces to bring about spot plus 10-20% when the prices go crazy: in the meantime we have the hedge of the collectable premiums until they get taken out by silver going to a price well north of where it is today. besides these slabbed up are a lot easier to trade/sell/barter with.

Things should POP soon as the election is drawing close and we are in a very bad reverse hidden depression with the 24% out of work in reality world and the prices of the things you need to live (food, water, energy, home rental/payments, insurances, and DRINKS to forget it all) going up like the PHOENIX and Jimmie Stewart.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IACjOvyx5hs

The GOVY is JUST about ready to fire their 6th cartridge with QE to infinity and GOLD is going to $4,500 then a backfall to $3,200 ish then 3 to 5 times the high of $4,500! Silver will even be better.

Hang in there.... ~ HS

[Curio Bill]

Really down-to-earth solid common sense above. You made me re-think my sp69 is good enough mindset. I've recently started to grab the sp70s and with the MULTIPLE cost right now it's okay. Frankly, I think in five years the collectors will really be chagrined they missed the opportunities herein the SPs in total. They are all south of 30,000 ish units total.


Hang in there.... ~ HS

If this is your advice for the ATB 5ozers, would the same logic work for other "Jordan" coins?? So take the case of mintmarked SAEs, if the p69 is $X and the p70 is twice that price, you would still advise getting the p70?? :hmmmm2:Thanks, Bill

[carbinero]

The "multiple" Jordan suggests in his book is 1.5x which makes sense to me. When the 70 gets up to 2x I started looking really hard at the design and mintage.

[HistoryStudent]

The "multiple" Jordan suggests in his book is 1.5x which makes sense to me. When the 70 gets up to 2x I started looking really hard at the design and mintage.

Good suggestion(s) to all of us. The current new SP UNC 5 oz. Chaco whatever is around $249 SP69 or $299 SP70. So to me it's either 4 at $249 or 3 at $299. The regular coin cost $210 ish delivered from the US Mint.

I suggest to all to evaluate what you have in silver total. If you don't have a LOT then the BULLION coins in 10 pack rounds look attractive to me at $160 ish each.
I also like the ASE, Can. SML, and plain silver rounds like Englehard prospectors.

You have to do a personal inventory to figure out a good strategy.

[carbinero]

Good suggestion(s) to all of us. The current new SP UNC 5 oz. Chaco whatever is around $249 SP69 or $299 SP70. So to me it's either 4 at $249 or 3 at $299. The regular coin cost $210 ish delivered from the US Mint.

I suggest to all to evaluate what you have in silver total. If you don't have a LOT then the BULLION coins in 10 pack rounds look attractive to me at $160 ish each.
I also like the ASE, Can. SML, and plain silver rounds like Englehard prospectors.

You have to do a personal inventory to figure out a good strategy.

Solid points. I think as the years go by, the 69s will settle back in line with raw /OGP pricing, and 70s will be where the potential lies. Thus, it is informative to compare the $205 raw to the $300 SP-70 and note that's a 50% increase. So if you believe in the fundamentals of this program, that 70 is a "buy."

[SirOzzyyzzO]

Did Silvertowne read my post, then jack up the new Chaco PCGS Flag 70's by almost $50 and minus the free shipping - based on what the El Yunque's were/are? A shame & sad for me...

I will be forced to allocate my money elsewhere and won't be able be a customer, as much as I'd like to be, even if they lower their prices. Go back to that very fair and reasonable pricing Silvertowne, please - before my wife finds out I set aside enough for 3 70's at $299 and free shipping... Otherwise, she'll make me pay extra towards the mortgage.... P.S. I can only hide it from her for another three days....

[SirOzzyyzzO]

Really down-to-earth solid common sense above. You made me re-think my sp69 is good enough mindset. I've recently started to grab the sp70s and with the MULTIPLE cost right now it's okay. Frankly, I think in five years the collectors will really be chagrined they missed the opportunities herein the SPs in total. They are all south of 30,000 ish units total.

SIR-friend, I recently went through a :thumb.aspx: last year when the prices escalated on gold and silver. I knew it would happen but I did not figure out that like we talked about on the SAINTS months back the premiums would be so affected and EFFECTED. The secondary thing was the total expense for an ounce was interesting. We have the pitter-patter of the hedge monies taking place worldwide right now and the US Dollar being super strong hits the PMs all around the Western world - and that is shown in the recent prices.

I fully expect these huge 5-oz pieces to bring about spot plus 10-20% when the prices go crazy: in the meantime we have the hedge of the collectable premiums until they get taken out by silver going to a price well north of where it is today. besides these slabbed up are a lot easier to trade/sell/barter with.

Things should POP soon as the election is drawing close and we are in a very bad reverse hidden depression with the 24% out of work in reality world and the prices of the things you need to live (food, water, energy, home rental/payments, insurances, and DRINKS to forget it all) going up like the PHOENIX and Jimmie Stewart.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IACjOvyx5hs

The GOVY is JUST about ready to fire their 6th cartridge with QE to infinity and GOLD is going to $4,500 then a backfall to $3,200 ish then 3 to 5 times the high of $4,500! Silver will even be better.

Hang in there.... ~ HS

History,
I am right there with you...
I've been sidetracked lately, so I am not as involved as I used to be nor would like to be. My posting about my El Yunque was mostly just info sharing and I was looking/seeking/hoping for opinions if my thinking was off - I just posted that Silvertowne jacked up their prices, by $50 and don't have free shipping as an offer right now - maybe that will drop in the future, but it's just too much for me... Not worth it. Gotta look at the 69's or mayb eeven the slabbed non S's with these... Maybe they do some type of x y axis mathematical figuring out based on how many they received compared with the other big-boys and they know this one will be a low mintage???? Or, do I not know what the heck I am saying and just blabbering?

Does anyone else know - Does Silvertowne lower their prices on these? I know with other coins - you gotta get em while they are hot and once they're gone they are gone.

[Milanion]

I'm jumping head first into the 2012 releases this month:

2x El Yunque NGC SP70 @ $252.50 each shipped
2x Chaco NGC SP70 @ $252.50 each shipped
1x El Yunque NGC SP69 @ $196 shipped
1x Chaco NG SP69 @ $196 shipped

. I'm at the limit of what I can buy this month without getting the Mrs. upset after I bought 2 of the San Fran PCGS 70 sets at SilverTowne this past weekend, though I might try to grab a First Spouse or two...

[lightcycler]

Oh sure, even had it graded, came back a 68:p. And just for good measure, 5 various bullion versions...couldn't miss with this big $ series of a lifetime:cry_smile:

I had four of the Hot Springs P's. Did sell 3 of them at some point. I have all in sealed mint packaging up to the last two. Trying to make myself stop all the numis and just get all into bullion. I believe its the right thing to do just picking my moments to convert.

[cpthnsolo]

I had four of the Hot Springs P's. Did sell 3 of them at some point. I have all in sealed mint packaging up to the last two. Trying to make myself stop all the numis and just get all into bullion. I believe its the right thing to do just picking my moments to convert.

I sold two or three of my Hot Springs coins, but I still have all the other 2010 P pucks. I don't remember which coin I stopped buying the P pucks on, but I only bought the first five or six IIRC. Now that interest is super low I'll certainly scoop up as many bullion and P pucks as I can if the premiums make sense at shows.

[newmisty]

lol, it seems that most of us are in the same boat. :)

[HistoryStudent]

Spouses and these make a lot of common sense.

Two PUCKS at 10 ounces are worth an ounce of gold the way it comes out of the earth yearly - 9 ounces to 1 oz. of gold.

Hell of a deal and they are under 30,000 mintage... what a joke...

[Oldmansmith]

Spouses and these make a lot of common sense.

Two PUCKS at 10 ounces are worth an ounce of gold the way it comes out of the earth yearly - 9 ounces to 1 oz. of gold.

Hell of a deal and they are under 30,000 mintage... what a joke...

Just waiting for Mrs. Old to go back to work in September then baby old and Big Daddy are gonna be
buying a whole bunch of P pucks. For the baby of course.

[ChoiceBU]

Just waiting for Mrs. Old to go back to work in September then baby old and Big Daddy are gonna be
buying a whole bunch of P pucks. For the baby of course.Slowly been dwindling down purchases to graded bullion coins. So mine are slightly overpriced bullion and 69's at best. I can't decide if that is dumb:thumpdown: or just half dumb:thumbs_up: - time will tell!

[HistoryStudent]

Slowly been dwindling down purchases to graded bullion coins. So mine are slightly overpriced bullion and 69's at best. I can't decide if that is dumb:thumpdown: or just half dumb:thumbs_up: - time will tell!

That's a good safety double-check hatch on authorization by a 3rd party for the sheeple when you trade/sell/bargain.
They'll appreciate it - and you have another basket too.

Frankly the classic stuff before 1933 is a tad depressed now and the younger collectors like herein are going for
moderns - just Like Jordan wrote they would. That's why MCM and Silvertowne are so popular.

Look strongly at 5 oz. "P" pucks under 30,000 mintage: and spouses under 3,000 PF and 2,000 MS mintage - pretty good chance
they keep at least a 20% premium even at $3,000 plus gold.

Buy close to spot however I've sent in too many coins that were below the 69 level from my OGP so to me 69s are not
as bad as most think - too darn much perfection mindset and price hit at that.

Reminds me of airplane travel before TSA when first class was 25% more not 300%. The premiums on 70s will go down as the
price of bullion goes up - especially after the $3000 in gold and $150 in silver. That's my educated have seen "stuff" guesstimate.

[SongSungAU]

The 2012 America the Beautiful Five-Ounce Silver Uncirculated Coin – Chaco Culture National Historical Park, New Mexico (NQ1) became available today (for $204.95).

19778


Since then next one (Acadia) becomes available on August 13th, I think I will wait and order them both then.


Acadia is now available and fortunately the price hasn't gone up.

21367

[adouble11]

Earlier today I purchased 2 2011 ATB's from the U.S. Mint (the 2 closest to being sold out), but after reading through this thread I cancelled my order. I'm not a big timer, so spending $400+ on 2 coins made me a little uneasy especially after reading some of the reviews that the coins are not in great condition.

Am I being paranoid, or at $204 a piece from the mint.....is this a good deal? The last few pages I've seen a trend pointing towards mint graded P's. I probably couldn't pop on the graded P's....too steep for me right now, but I love this set. Should I resist the urge?

Help is greatly appreciated!


AA

[Curio Bill]

Earlier today I purchased 2 2011 ATB's from the U.S. Mint (the 2 closest to being sold out), but after reading through this thread I cancelled my or:eating:der. I'm not a big timer, so spending $400+ on 2 coins made me a little uneasy especially after reading some of the reviews that the coins are not in great condition.

Am I being paranoid, or at $204 a piece from the mint.....is this a good deal? The last few pages I've seen a trend pointing towards mint graded P's. I probably couldn't pop on the graded P's....too steep for me right now, but I love this set. Should I resist the urge?

Help is greatly appreciated!


AA

That's actually a good question......Enquiring minds want to know..........

[Chester-Copperpot]

Earlier today I purchased 2 2011 ATB's from the U.S. Mint (the 2 closest to being sold out), but after reading through this thread I cancelled my order. I'm not a big timer, so spending $400+ on 2 coins made me a little uneasy especially after reading some of the reviews that the coins are not in great condition.

Am I being paranoid, or at $204 a piece from the mint.....is this a good deal? The last few pages I've seen a trend pointing towards mint graded P's. I probably couldn't pop on the graded P's....too steep for me right now, but I love this set. Should I resist the urge?

Help is greatly appreciated!


AA


Here ya go buddy. Graded "P" for under $200. These IMO are the best bang for your buck if your buying ATB's. Check there site, some great deals on the pucks. I picked up a graded 70 for about $250 during there sale.

http://www.silvertowne.com/p-18814-2011-p-america-the-beautiful-silver-5oz-olympic-sp69-fs-pcgs.aspx

[adouble11]

Here ya go buddy. Graded "P" for under $200. These IMO are the best bang for your buck if your buying ATB's. Check there site, some great deals on the pucks. I picked up a graded 70 for about $250 during there sale.

http://www.silvertowne.com/p-18814-2011-p-america-the-beautiful-silver-5oz-olympic-sp69-fs-pcgs.aspx



Thank you.


I've also read on here that Silvertowne has free shipping. Is this with a coupon, or was it a limited time bargain?

[cpthnsolo]

If you guys have a limited budget, I would advise you to avoid the ATB's altogether unless the premiums are much closer to regular bullion. Paying $200 or more for *any* puck right now when melt is $140 is not a wise thing to do if you have limited funds IMO. The ATB's are neat and I have a number of P pucks and bullion coins myself, but from this point forward I'm looking for cheap examples only or will buy them if the mintage is appealing. Paying a 30% premium for silver that the market has largely rejected (and remember there are no similar classics to look to for history) just is not wise unless you already have quite a bit in bullion Au/Ag. Yes the mintage numbers are declining and interest is still falling so we may finally see a winner or two, but I would rather sit and watch mintage numbers and act accordingly when it becomes clear there's a good buy over simply buying one of everything.

I know this opinion differs from HistoryStudent's, whom I respect greatly, but unless you're a heavy hitter and just buying the ATB's because you can I would recommend steering clear of all ATBs. Now if the premium is say 15% or less than they make a lot more sense, but 30% is just too much for silver that has very little near-term upside. Sure there's a chance that in 5, 10, or 20 years ATBs may be all the rage, but I wouldn't bet on it. This is just my opinion so DYODD of course, but personally I'm going to stick with other mint offerings that I'm sure about for now.

:pcguru:

[cpthnsolo]

I've also read on here that Silvertowne has free shipping. Is this with a coupon, or was it a limited time bargain?

They'll do that with promotions from time to time. Actually, all the major dealers offer free shipping on certain products sometimes or if you spend over 'X' amount of dollars. The most recent promotion was free shipping on certain bullion silver items.

[lightcycler]

I know this opinion differs from HistoryStudent's, whom I respect greatly, but unless you're a heavy hitter and just buying the ATB's because you can I would recommend steering clear of all ATBs. Now if the premium is say 15% or less than they make a lot more sense, but 30% is just too much for silver that has very little near-term upside. Sure there's a chance that in 5, 10, or 20 years ATBs may be all the rage, but I wouldn't bet on it. This is just my opinion so DYODD of course, but personally I'm going to stick with other mint offerings that I'm sure about for now.

:pcguru:

I think HS will agree that most of this is predicated on having a solid base of bullion. I've used these numis to turn a profit in most cases and sometimes very nice ones. For me as we approach the run up I believe will occur soon its time to get more bullion. I don't have enough for me. Each person has to assess there own situation. In my opinion where PM's are concerned there is no wrong answer.....have em. But each person has to do there own DD and make the best desicion possible based on all the wealth of information on this site and others. I've bought tubes of bullion ATB's at very close to spot. That works well for me. The P pucks I have alot of them but I'm scaling way back. Things are going to get very interesting I think.

[newmisty]

If you guys have a limited budget, I would advise you to avoid the ATB's altogether unless the premiums are much closer to regular bullion. Paying $200 or more for *any* puck right now when melt is $140 is not a wise thing to do if you have limited funds IMO. The ATB's are neat and I have a number of P pucks and bullion coins myself, but from this point forward I'm looking for cheap examples only or will buy them if the mintage is appealing. Paying a 30% premium for silver that the market has largely rejected (and remember there are no similar classics to look to for history) just is not wise unless you already have quite a bit in bullion Au/Ag. Yes the mintage numbers are declining and interest is still falling so we may finally see a winner or two, but I would rather sit and watch mintage numbers and act accordingly when it becomes clear there's a good buy over simply buying one of everything.

I know this opinion differs from HistoryStudent's, whom I respect greatly, but unless you're a heavy hitter and just buying the ATB's because you can I would recommend steering clear of all ATBs. Now if the premium is say 15% or less than they make a lot more sense, but 30% is just too much for silver that has very little near-term upside. Sure there's a chance that in 5, 10, or 20 years ATBs may be all the rage, but I wouldn't bet on it. This is just my opinion so DYODD of course, but personally I'm going to stick with other mint offerings that I'm sure about for now.

:pcguru:

Your well thought out sober thoughts are greatly appreciated. :thumbs_up:

[HistoryStudent]

Right now, very frankly, LIKE NOW any silver bullion coin makes a lot of common sense.

I like these specific because the "P" pucks should all be under 30,000 units.

And that's really nice in the grand scheme of things; Because rule 5 will soon hit and scare even me with the price in fiat.

by-the-way:

Different baskets of all types & sizes of bullion is smart, too.

RULE 5: Fundamentals rule out always in the end.

Let me teach you a trick about numismatics. In regards to a hedge by me against not having the huge increase in any bullion fiat price.

~ HS note: MINT FLOPS translate to huge premiums after the lemmings figure it out.

That means that "any coin that really flops" via really low sales makes IT the mother of all KEYS for that series.

Sometimes with a minty FUBAR/SNAFU they give us a whole or partial series of daisy-chain of stupidity. (Meaning LOTS of them in a row)

Don't think too hard but I'll give you a clue for the little gray brain cells:

THINK spouses MS 1st & PF 2nd & ATB 5 oz. "P" unc pucks bought close to spot as possible - Maybe even in OGP (for the cheap ones) from a
3rd party like MCM or SILVERTOWNE when the price is low and the demand is crappola!


With regular gas today at $4.20 a gallon and rising things look interesting because a few months ago is was $3.20. Who DA THUNK?

I hear the helicopters getting ready loading up with fiat - and taking orders from you-know-who in Washington, DC.

http://fourthturning.com/

The FOURTH TURNING is saying, "YES, SIR!"

[PhucilliJerry]

The last time I ordered some pucks from the mint they pulled them for re-pricing shortly after my order (of course they came back up at the same price approx. 7 business days later anyway since that rally was short lived). But just for information sake, that was February 24th when silver was dancing with $35.50 all morning......

21879

Somewhere between $35.45 to $35.65 and 10:00 am to 11:54 am is when they pulled them. Not sure if there is a set price point at which they come off for re-pricing or if it is up to human discretion. Either way, if you're considering ordering some you may want to watch the silver spot price accordingly if we keep moving up from here.......