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View Full Version : Ron Paul in statistical dead heat with Newt in Iowa



phideaux
12-13-2011, 05:30 PM
http://goldismoney2.com/images/smilies/standard/beer1.gif

Gingrich 22%
Paul 21%


December 13, 2011

Paul closes in on Gingrich

There has been some major movement in the Republican Presidential race in Iowa over the last week, with what was a 9 point lead for Newt Gingrich now all the way down to a single point. Gingrich is at 22% to 21% for Paul with Mitt Romney at 16%, Michele Bachmann at 11%, Rick Perry at 9%, Rick Santorum at 8%, Jon Huntsman at 5%, and Gary Johnson at 1%.

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/.a/6a0133f2dd8001970b0154383f9b8f970c-800wi (http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/.a/6a0133f2dd8001970b0154383f9b8f970c-pi)
Gingrich has dropped 5 points in the last week and he's also seen a significant decline in his favorability numbers. Last week he was at +31 (62/31) and he's now dropped 19 points to +12 (52/40). The attacks on him appear to be taking a heavy toll- his support with Tea Party voters has declined from 35% to 24%.

Paul meanwhile has seen a big increase in his popularity from +14 (52/38) to +30 (61/31). There are a lot of parallels between Paul's strength in Iowa and Barack Obama's in 2008- he's doing well with new voters, young voters, and non-Republican voters:
-59% of likely voters participated in the 2008 Republican caucus and they support Gingrich 26-18. But among the 41% of likely voters who are 'new' for 2012 Paul leads Gingrich 25-17 with Romney at 16%. Paul is doing a good job of bringing out folks who haven't done this before.

-He's also very strong with young voters. Among likely caucus goers under 45 Paul is up 30-16 on Gingrich. With those over 45, Gingrich leads him 26-15 with Romney at 17%.
-Among Republicans Gingrich leads Paul 25-17. But with voters who identify as Democrats or independents, 21% of the electorate in a year with no action on the Democratic side, Paul leads Gingrich 34-14 with Romney at 17%.

Young voters, independents, and folks who haven't voted in caucuses before is an unusual coalition for a Republican candidate...the big question is whether these folks will really come out and vote...if they do, we could be in for a big upset.

Paul's supporters are considerably more committed to him than Gingrich's are. 77% of current Paul voters say they're definitely going to vote for him, compared to only 54% for Gingrich. Romney has much more solid support than Gingrich as well, 67% of his voters saying they're with him for the long haul. Among only voters who say their mind's totally made up, 29% support Paul to 21% for Gingrich, 18% for Romney, and 11% for Bachmann.

Romney's staying right in place. He was at 16% last week and he's at 16% this week. His net favorability was a +4 spread last week and it's a +4 spread this week. Gingrich's support is declining in Iowa but Romney's not gaining, just as he failed to gain when Cain and Perry and Bachmann collapsed before. One statistic that really jumps out- only 44% of Romney's supporters from 2008 say they plan to vote for him again. If he was even just retaining all his support from last time around he'd be in the lead. Like Romney, there's been little change in Michele Bachmann's standing over the last week. Her favorability was +21 (56/35). Now it's +18 (55/37). She's gone from 13% support to 11%.

Rick Perry generated a ton of attention in the last week with his ad decrying the repeal of 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' and the 'War on Christmas,' but it hasn't done much for his poll standing. He was at 9% and he's still at 9%. His favorability numbers are under water with 43% of likely voters viewing him favorably to 47% with a negative opinion. The only Republican who's less well regarded is Jon Huntsman. Only 41% of Iowa Republicans even oppose gays serving in the military to 28% who support it and 31% unsure...and Perry's only tied for fourth even with those who are opposed, behind Gingrich, Bachmann, and Paul.

Other Notes:
-52% of likely voters claim to have watched the debate in Des Moines on Saturday night. Although I'm skeptical that many really watched, it does speak to how influential the debates have been in this race.
-Republicans continue to think Gingrich is the most electable candidate. 30% think it's him to 21% for Romney, and 14% for Paul with no one else in double digits.
-Here's a finding that helps explain why Mitt Romney's struggling so much: 31% of voters have a favorable opinion of the Republican establishment and an equal 31% have an unfavorable one with 38% unsure. When Romney rolls out endorsement after endorsement, to a lot of voters that's actually coming across as a negative thing. With those anti-establishment voters Paul's at 34% to 18% for Gingrich, 12% for Santorum, and only 10% for Romney.
-39% of voters think that Mitt Romney has stronger values to 18% for Newt Gingrich. 43% aren't sure and that's pretty telling.
-Finally we threw in a Tim Tebow favorability question for part of the field period. He comes out at a net +35 (48/13), making him more popular than any of the actual candidates. Maybe in 2024...
Our next weekly Iowa poll with be out on Monday the 19th.

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2011/12/paul-closes-in-on-gingrich.html

EO 11110
12-13-2011, 08:57 PM
the headlines read that he's had a sudden surge

the real story: they lie lie lie until they can't deny (the truth is approaching fast)....thus the "sudden surge" line of bullsh-t

got diebold?

Lore
12-13-2011, 09:03 PM
Fascinating. So 22% of Americans have not read Gingrich's books.

born_cross_eyed
12-13-2011, 09:40 PM
It's all over Drudge Report. That site gets A LOT of hits.

http://i42.tinypic.com/2z5jf3r.jpg

Alric
12-13-2011, 09:42 PM
As Ron Paul continues to go up, and he has been going up this entire time, more people start believing he has a chance of winning. He always had a chance of winning but the media has always slammed him for not having a chance. All the people who like his message but didn't support him because they thought it was a lost cause are going to end up supporting him now. That is why I think a win in Iowa is going to give him a huge boost, and support will come pouring in. He really needs to win it, second place will not do.

Juristic Person
12-13-2011, 09:49 PM
As Ron Paul continues to go up, and he has been going up this entire time, more people start believing he has a chance of winning. He always had a chance of winning but the media has always slammed him for not having a chance. All the people who like his message but didn't support him because they thought it was a lost cause are going to end up supporting him now. That is why I think a win in Iowa is going to give him a huge boost, and support will come pouring in. He really needs to win it, second place will not do.

I agree. He needs to win and his numbers should explode.

He'll also get a boost once Perry, Bachman and Santorum drop out.

Ron Paul has an excellent shot to win this whole damn thing!

phideaux
12-13-2011, 09:51 PM
Too many people think that elections are like horse races - they think the objective is to vote for the winner. NOT!

The objective is to vote for the candidate that you think is "best" (however you choose to measure it).

But absolutely, if Ron Paul wins it in Iowa, his numbers elsewhere will jump instantly and dramatically, possibly double.

Goooooo Ron Paul!

bemac
12-13-2011, 10:05 PM
If Ron Paul wins the presidency I will party like it's 1799.

pre-64'
12-13-2011, 10:09 PM
What do ya mean, IF?


The guy is the only reasonable choice.


The rest intend on keeping us enslaved.

phideaux
12-13-2011, 10:09 PM
Wow, Britt the Human and Gretel van Whazzhernose on Fox Snooze have been talking about Ron Paul for about 5 minutes now. And most of it complimentary.

Britt said "it would not be a surprise at all if Ron Paul wins Iowa."

And Britt says "Romney is definitely vulnerable in New Hampshire."

This is great progress, that a Mainstream Neocon like Britt the Human has stopped ridiculing Ron Paul and started to acknowledge that these trends are real.

phideaux
12-13-2011, 10:11 PM
And Ron Paul closing the gap in NH, too.


Election 2012: New Hampshire Republican Primary

Romney 33%, Gingrich 22%, Paul 18%

Tuesday, December 13, 2011

Former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney remains on top of the New Hampshire Republican Primary field, but the race for second place between Newt Gingrich and Ron Paul is a lot closer than it was just two weeks ago.

The latest Rasmussen Reports statewide telephone survey of Likely Republican Primary Voters shows Romney with 33% of the vote, followed by Gingrich at 22%. Paul now picks up 18% support, his best showing in the Granite State so far. Former Utah Governor Jon Huntsman comes in fourth with 10% of the vote, with no other candidate reaching double digits. (To see survey question wording, click here (http://www.goldismoney2.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2012/election_2012_presidential_election/new_hampshire/questions/questions_new_hampshire_gop_primary_december_12_20 11).)

Support for Romney, Gingrich and Huntsman is little changed from the previous survey (http://www.goldismoney2.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2012/election_2012_presidential_election/new_hampshire/election_2012_new_hampshire_republican_primary), but Paul has now closed the 10-point gap between him and Gingrich to just four points.

Texas Governor Rick Perry, former Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum and Minnesota Congresswoman Michele Bachmann now each pick up three percent (3%) support in New Hampshire. Two percent (2%) prefer some other candidate, while five percent (5%) are undecided.

Forty-seven percent (47%) of New Hampshire GOP primary voters are now certain of how they will vote, up from 42% two weeks ago. Just over half (53%) say they could change their minds between now and the January 10 primary.

Romney's support is down eight points from late October (http://www.goldismoney2.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2012/election_2012_presidential_election/new_hampshire/new_hampshire_romney_41_cain_17_paul_11). Gingrich shot to second in New Hampshire late last month following a surge of support in both state and national surveys (http://www.goldismoney2.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2012/election_2012_presidential_election/election_2012_republican_presidential_primary) and a major newspaper endorsement in the Granite State. Both Perry and Georgia businessman Herman Cain, who has since suspended his campaign, took turns in second place in New Hampshire in September and October. Paul has steadily remained in third in all of those surveys.

Among Republican voters in Iowa (http://www.goldismoney2.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2008/2008_presidential_election/iowa/republican_iowa_caucus), Gingrich leads with 32% of the vote over Romney’s 19%, but this survey also includes Cain. Rasmussen Reports will release new numbers on the Iowa Caucus later this week.

(Want a free daily e-mail update (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/daily_updates)? If it's in the news, it's in our polls). Rasmussen Reports updates are also available on Twitter (http://twitter.com/RasmussenPoll) or Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Asbury-Park-NJ/Rasmussen-Reports/86959124863?ref=nf).

This New Hampshire survey of 721 Likely Republican Primary Voters was conducted on December 12, 2011 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 4 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. Field work for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse Opinion Research, LLC (http://www.pulseopinionresearch.com/). See methodology (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/about_us/methodology).





12/12/2011

11/28/2011

10/25/2011

9/21/2011



Mitt Romney

33%

34%

41%

39%



New Gingrich

22%

24%

8%

4%



Ron Paul

18%

14%

11%

13%



John Huntsman

10%

11%

7%

7%



Herman Cain

Withdrew

5%

17%

4%



Rick Perry

3%

2%

4%

18%



Michele Bachmann

3%

2%

3%

5%



Rick Santorum

3%

1%

1%

2%



Some other candidate

2%

1%

2%

3%



Not sure

5%

6%

5%

4%







more here: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2012/election_2012_presidential_election/new_hampshire/election_2012_new_hampshire_republican_primary

Not Sure
12-13-2011, 11:29 PM
Ron Paul has an excellent shot to win this whole damn thing!

The operative term is "shot."

I'm going to reiterate my past offer:

I will bet one full Gold American Eagle that Ron Paul will not be President in January 2013. If he wins, you win one GAE from me. If he does not, I'll send you my shipping address.

This offer is open to anyone on this site.

I'm telling you: "they" are not going to let him anywhere near the Oval Office.

Not Sure
12-13-2011, 11:39 PM
Rick Perry 3%
Not sure 5%

Even I am polling higher than Rick Perry!

phideaux
12-13-2011, 11:41 PM
The operative term is "shot."

I'm going to reiterate my past offer:

I will bet one full Gold American Eagle that Ron Paul will not be President in January 2013. If he wins, you win one GAE from me. If he does not, I'll send you my shipping address.

This offer is open to anyone on this site.

I'm telling you: "they" are not going to let him anywhere near the Oval Office.

Ron Paul is currently rated at 8.2% chance of winning, (That's up from 1% a year ago). http://www.intrade.com/v4/home/

So maybe odds of 12-1 are in order. I'll put up 1 Silver Eagle to 12 of yours.

Alric
12-14-2011, 12:32 AM
You give to much credit to "them" and to little to "us". If he wins in Iowa, his chances of taking the whole thing are going to go up drastically, and really he is looking pretty good in Iowa at the moment.

Hope+Change
12-14-2011, 12:37 AM
Too many people think that elections are like horse races - they think the objective is to vote for the winner.
13514




I also subscribe to the theory that these poll numbers were completely fabricated in an attempt to discredit Ron Paul's popularity.

bemac
12-14-2011, 01:04 AM
I don't get how folks think the polls are being rigged. Trust me, they aren't. You're giving the American populace too much credit, they aren't that bright.

Lore
12-15-2011, 10:36 PM
The issue here is honesty of pollsters. Tailoring questions and sampling and every other aspect of a poll in order to achieve a desired outcome is an advanced and proven science. It's disgusting but true that a lot of stupid people will change their opinion "just to get along."

bemac
12-15-2011, 10:41 PM
The issue here is honesty of pollsters. Tailoring questions and sampling and every other aspect of a poll in order to achieve a desired outcome is an advanced and proven science. A lot of stupid people will change their opinion "just to get along." It's disgusting but true.

I do work in market research and we do a lot of polling. I program questionnaires and load sample.

Juristic Person
12-16-2011, 02:13 AM
The operative term is "shot."

I'm going to reiterate my past offer:

I will bet one full Gold American Eagle that Ron Paul will not be President in January 2013. If he wins, you win one GAE from me. If he does not, I'll send you my shipping address.

This offer is open to anyone on this site.

I'm telling you: "they" are not going to let him anywhere near the Oval Office.

That's like picking any single football team and saying that you bet me that team doesn't win.

Only an idiot would take that bet because the odds are stacked against you.

You are essentially saying that if ANY OTHER CANDIDATE WINS, I lose.

So let's make it a fair bet.

Either you give me fair odds or you pick your guy and I'll pick mine....1 for 1.

Do I get the odds or the 1-for-1 bet?