Guy buys 47k worth of stuff from Franklin Mint and tries to sell it years later

[97guns]

i just sold this sucker a bridge over the mohave


http://heraldnews.suntimes.com/business/berko/12126832-420/coin-purchases-dont-live-up-to-claims.html

[Mr Paradise]

What's the old saying..

"Anything that starts out as a collectable ...won't be"

[southfork]

Dont see any differenence here from the people who bought gold coins from Gold line and the AG sued them, why not Franklin Mint etal?? Oh I know why, they didn't advertise on consertative talk radio.

[Silver Art]

A few thoughts from me regarding the article in the OP:

1.) DYODD: Do Your Own Due Diligence. This was the most important thing that "DA" did not do IMO when buying Franklin Mint collectible coins. That requires research (online and offline) and there are coin books available that can get a person started on obtaining the knowledge needed to understand what you are collecting. There are also online resources available to help a person obtain information. The only person that should be blamed here is "DA".

2.) It is NOT Franklin Mint's fault: Franklin Mint, like any other company, is out there to make a profit on what they sell. Franklin Mint set a price for a collectible silver coin for "X" price and "DA" agreed to the "X" price that Franklin Mint put on this coin. Suing Franklin Mint will not do any good and even if there was a remote chance that "DA" won and actually collected on the judgement, then it will not be very much after the attorney gets his cut.

3.) Do not treat collectible gold and silver coins as an investment: This was a big mistake from "DA". When dealing with collectible gold and silver coins and bars, then there are more variables at play than just the price of silver. You are also dealing with a collector market and that can change depending on future supply and demand for collectible silver. Future premiums on collectible gold and silver coins an bars is nearly impossible to predict. Collecting coins is supposed to be fun and you should love what you collect and do not expect anything more than to just make you happy. There is emotional attachment involved in collecting coins. A person is not supposed to be emotionally attached to an investment. If a person is emotionally attached to an "investment", then it is no longer an investment IMO.

4.) Do not sell collectible gold and silver coins to a local dealer: Most local bullion dealers are only going to give you only the metal value (minus a discount). The LCS care only about metal value and not collector value. Despite the negative things that are said about Ebay, it is still the best place to sell collectible and numismatic gold and silver because there is a collector market on ebay that will bid on it and you will get more for it (even after Ebay and Paypal fees). Honestly speaking, the only way that I see to make money from collectible gold and silver is to buy it for a low price (at .999 generic silver premiums for example) and turn around and to sell it on ebay to get a higher price (ex: ebay collectiors premium). Even with that, a person has to know what types of collectible coins that can get the greatest profit margin on ebay after fees. A person has to have some idea of how much it is worth on ebay. Once a person obtains that knowledge, then they will have to buy it at a low enough price to make a profit on it.

That is sad that "DA" got taken advantage of but some DYODD would have gone a very long way to prevent "DA" from getting taken advantage of. I am not familiar with the coins that Franklin Mint made but I am familiar with the '70's Franklin Mint sterling silver bars but I do not have any Franklin Mint bars in my collection since I do not deal with sterling. As a silver art bar collector, I DO NOT treat my silver art bar collection as an investment because I am too emotionally attached to them and I love what I collect. This is just for my enjoyment. I also follow ebay premiums on certain silver art bars to get an idea of how much they are worth because it just makes me a more knowledgeable collector.

Stories such as the one in the OP can give collectible gold and silver coins and the collectors who buy these a bad name because, in most cases, there was no research done to obtain the knowledge to know what they are buying and no DYODD was done when paying for collectibles.

[Treasure Searcher]

Looks like the guy bought alot of worthless trinkets.

He can join the beanie baby collector crowd and find out their "investment" was worthless from day one.

He may be able to setup a table or two at flea markets and try to sell the trinkets. Other than that, it looks like the landfill will be getting another deposit of worthless garbage.

I sadly see multiples of people who collect state quarters. Since the "on the street" quarters are not silver, they have no metal (silver, etc.) value. These state quarters were mass produced and everyone has them. I do not see how people could be suckered into collecting them and thinking their collection of state quarters are worth a "mint".:cry_smile:

[newmisty]

I'm going to start an "Obama Mint" and sell gold plated trinkets to the next generation of suckers. I'm sure we can think of some great Chinese made relics that people will drool over when plated in gold. It should fund a decent retirement for me and 100 friends. :banana:

First up is the gold plated Obama doll! A heroic tribute to the nations first black mercenary ninja president!! Order now and receive a deluxe package of political garbage at no extra charge. Just add $89 for shipping processing and handling.
17704

[fasTTcar]

The vast majority of stuff sold by the RCM will never be worth the original selling price too.

Better than the plated crap sold on tv, but not by much.

[latemetal]

My gold and silver "junk buckets" are filling up with yesterdays collectibles.:cool05:

[Malus]

And for those that don't get sucked into these "franklin mint" deals, they created numismatics for the "serious" collectors that know their sh*t. I know some would disagree, but to me, a piece of gold is a piece of gold and silver is silver and when/if SHTF, thats how everyone else will view them (numi's that is)........... Just extra coin thrown away when it could have been used to buy more volume.

[Silver Art]

And for those that don't get sucked into these "franklin mint" deals, they created numismatics for the "serious" collectors that know their sh*t. I know some would disagree, but to me, a piece of gold is a piece of gold and silver is silver and when/if SHTF, thats how everyone else will view them (numi's that is)........... Just extra coin thrown away when it could have been used to buy more volume.

In "normal" times (non-SHTF scenario), there will always be a collector's market for collectible gold and silver coins and bars and the premiums on them will be dictated by supply and demand. I do not know if SHTF will happen or not and I do not know what "form" that SHTF will come in but I would have to say that if a mad-max style SHTF occurs, then I feel that the collector's market would completely collapse and as a result, collector premiums on certain gold and silver coins and bars would disappear and all gold and silver will be treated as......................regular gold and silver to be used to buy things in a post SHTF world. This is just a wild guess on my part since I really do not know what will happen in the future.

For the record, when it comes to buying PM's, I am not a SHTF prepper. I am not an investor. I am not a trader. I am not a real stacker. I am just a silver art bar collector.

[Malus]

Thing is, you don't need a "Mad Max" style of collapse. Think 20-40% unemployment, rising prices. Unless, your rich and have rich friends that are part of the corporation, nobody else (I feel) will give numi a second look, think "Pawnstars".............. take it or leave it. Buyers can smell desperation.

[TomD]

When I first started buying, I ended up going down a number of blind alleys but 25 years of continuously buying valueless trash? It's hard to imagine that somewhere along the line he didn't get a reality check. I may have some Franklin stuff. I bought a couple of those bill replicas made from 4 oz of silver from a Pawn shop for spot + $.75 a while back.

BTW: Anyone want to buy some Pandas? My Pandas, being real, are quite rare.

[Someone_else]

I understand the emotional part of "collecting" and I commend the previous authors on separating fun versus investing. Fun is an expense. Nothing wrong with that. Fun is great. But it is not an investment.

For investing, I think 5% over spot is getting expensive. And anything over 10% is plainly ridiculous. I don't give a damn about some rare number or letter on the coin. But to be fair, I am seriously thinking about getting two tubes of 1/10 eagles at 9% from Tulving.
Cute, practical, and he will buy them back at 7%...

[Chester-Copperpot]

When I first started buying, I had no clue what to buy, and how much over spot I should pay. I joined this forum, asked a couple of basic questions, and read through old posts. The knowledge gained from members here, is priceless. I've only been stacking for three years, and still consider myself a "noob".

Anyone dropping that kind of money, over a period of time, should really have done some homework. Its like those commercials you see late at night. Get you gold American Buffalo now, only $9.99. The key word, which they only use once is "Clad"
Unless a coin is silver or gold, I'll stay the hell away from it. Even 40% Half's I leave alone.

[Treasure Searcher]

I'm going to start an "Obama Mint" and sell gold plated trinkets to the next generation of suckers. I'm sure we can think of some great Chinese made relics that people will drool over when plated in gold. It should fund a decent retirement for me and 100 friends. :banana:

First up is the gold plated Obama doll! A heroic tribute to the nations first black mercenary ninja president!! Order now and receive a deluxe package of political garbage at no extra charge. Just add $89 for shipping processing and handling.
17704

You may want to consider an Obama doll, wearing a hoodie, with gang colors. :s9:

[Goldhedge]

from the story


... and beautiful non-silver coins from the Franklin Mint for my retirement...


There's a reason Article I Section 10 of the Constitution says what it says...



A fool and his money are soon parted...

[~BS]

if he stuck to the sterling or .999 silver items he wouldn't have been nearly as bad off. Of course their prices back then were probably crazy high on silver items so not sure if he'd even break even on those items. unfortunately, the stuff they were hawking off on him was probably mostly clad rubbish and medals that they churned out in cardboard holders.

Hate to think of what their profit margin must have been like on this guy. They probably made out like a drug dealer. Sell something that cost you $1000 for $47000.

[Silver Art]

When I first started buying, I had no clue what to buy, and how much over spot I should pay. I joined this forum, asked a couple of basic questions, and read through old posts. The knowledge gained from members here, is priceless. I've only been stacking for three years, and still consider myself a "noob".

Anyone dropping that kind of money, over a period of time, should really have done some homework. Its like those commercials you see late at night. Get you gold American Buffalo now, only $9.99. The key word, which they only use once is "Clad"
Unless a coin is silver or gold, I'll stay the hell away from it. Even 40% Half's I leave alone.

When I got started into silver art bar collecting, I knew nothing about them except that the artwork on them looked nice. I will admit from the start that I did no research on them and I did not DYODD when buying them. It was "trial and error" for me in the beginning. I made several mistakes in the beginning but I learned from some of those mistakes. I eventually got curious enough to do some online research on some of them to get myself familiar with them. That research led me to other online resources that led me to more information and to online people who knew more about them than I did.

When I started my first silver art bar thread on GIM1, I got enough responses from other posters in that thread and that resulted in me hearing about IASAC (International Association of Silver Art Collectors) and that led me join IASAC in Summer 2009. Being a member of IASAC led me to meet people at coin shows who silver art bar collectors like me and I am able to learn from them. Some of those responses from my first silver art bar thread on GIM1 also led me to the existence of the Archie Kidd price guides. Once I bought my first one, I started reading and learning about which ones were minted by what private mint. That has increased my knowledge.

Going to coin shows has helped me tremendously in terms of getting some experience in buying silver art bars and that has helped my confidence. Lurking on ebay on a daily basis has helped me get an idea of how much some of them are currently worth. With that said, it is nearly impossible to know what premiums on them will be in the future. Nobody can predict that but I get an idea of what they are currently worth at the moment which helps me become a knowledgeable collector.

Doing some research (online and offline) on the silver art bar hobby has helped me in determining which ones were rare and which ones were common and the pitfalls to avoid when buying them.

That is my main reason why I write posts and post pictures about them on GIM2 and elsewhere on the internet because I might be able to help someone else get started in the silver art bar hobby and maybe they will get addicted like I did.

Currently, I am still learning about silver art bars from other silver art bar collectors who are my Facebook friends I communicate with them on Facebook. A lot of my Facebook friends were people that I met in person at past coin shows and they were very helpful to me especially when I was learning about the history of certain mints that created some of the silver art bars that were minted in the 1970's. I will never stop learning because there were so many art bars that were minted in the 1970's and 1980's and I do not come close to knowing everything about every single one that came out.

The moral of this post is that DYODD and research is (and will always be) the most important thing. That bears repeating and the OP's link and my early silver art bar collecting experience are prime examples of what happens when someone does not DYODD and do research.

[Fiat Metaler]

as Franklin Sanders says, all premiums go to zero eventually.

[EO 11110]

i know an elderly lady that got on a regular purchase plan that lasted for decades. they would send her bullsh-t tokens and hit her checking account every month via ach. she lost tens of thousands too. it wasn't named franklin....it was something else.

[Ronnie Mexico]

Honestly, how stupid can you get?

[cpthnsolo]

I was horrified to learn that I have a couple of relatives who have invested like this guy (to a lesser degree thankfully). They had books and books of various state quarters and collections that were Franklin Mint type stuff. Thankfully a number of the items had real silver coins so there's value to the collection, but even if silver triples from here they probably won't break even. I didn't have the heart to break the news to them when I saw the collection as I had just met them and didn't feel it was my place to break the news. Besides they enjoyed the items and I got the impression they weren't depending on selling them at some point later. At least I hope that's the case...

I guess I'll pat myself on the back here and share another related story regarding a good friend/coworker. Eventually I had a talk with him about his silver & gold plated state quarter collection that I saw him receive every month. He paid $19.95 for TWO quarters in the collection every month. The coins themselves are certainly pretty in their presentation case now that he's completed the collection, but he was less than thrilled to hear about the actual value of the coins. The guy is uber-smart too and not buying them to make a mint off of them, but rather solely because he really thought they were pretty and something that others would desire as well. Since we had our talk he hasn't purchased any more FM type stuff and he's turned to AGE's and junk silver :cool:.

[born_cross_eyed]

I used to work at a call center that would take orders for Franklin Mint and the various subsidiaries (Washington Mint, Danbury Mint, etc.) I quit after three months because I felt guilty (oh, and the pay sucked). Not only were they passing off near-worthless junk as valuable investments, but a sale usually also involved a scam where automatic shipments would be sent (and credit cards charged) monthly. The script we were supposed to read was written in a manner meant to confuse old and/or stupid people to unknowingly agreeing to this. Not surprisingly, the "customer service" line where people could call up and cancel the shipments was severely understaffed and nearly impossible to get through on.

[Treasure Searcher]

i know an elderly lady that got on a regular purchase plan that lasted for decades. they would send her bullsh-t tokens and hit her checking account every month via ach. she lost tens of thousands too. it wasn't named franklin....it was something else.

I know of some people that buy collector plates on a regular basis. They think that since they are "collector" plates, they will be valuable.

There maybe an occasional sought after plate (Elvis, etc.), but the rest are worthless.

Beanie Babies were "collector" items, too and see what happened.

I collect old fire nozzles and extinguishers. I make sure I do not pay too much for them. They are usually are brass or copper, so they retain some value just for the metal. They look nice decorating the living room and the sight of brass and copper makes me happy, too. :banana:

[Silver Art]

I used to work at a call center that would take orders for Franklin Mint and the various subsidiaries (Washington Mint, Danbury Mint, etc.) I quit after three months because I felt guilty (oh, and the pay sucked). Not only were they passing off near-worthless junk as valuable investments, but a sale usually also involved a scam where automatic shipments would be sent (and credit cards charged) monthly. The script we were supposed to read was written in a manner meant to confuse old and/or stupid people to unknowingly agreeing to this. Not surprisingly, the "customer service" line where people could call up and cancel the shipments was severely understaffed and nearly impossible to get through on.


Hmmm........That sounds like a "boiler room" type atmosphere that you worked in. I cannot blame you for quitting after 3 months especially if you were required to lie about the product that you were forced to sell to a customer. As far as I am concerned, you did the right thing by quitting the Franklin Mint IMO. The conscience can only take so much punishment from being forced to lie about what you are selling. A customer can easily get scammed into buying some clad coin thinking that it will be worth a lot of money in the future unless a person really knew exactly what they were buying and had an idea of what it should cost.

The automatic shipments and automatic charges are a red flag IMO. Maybe this is just me but after I make a single order for a product that I wanted and asked for from a company, I do not want that same company shipping me and automatically charging me for more stuff that I did not ask for.

[Fiat Metaler]

i know an elderly lady that got on a regular purchase plan that lasted for decades. they would send her bullsh-t tokens and hit her checking account every month via ach. she lost tens of thousands too. it wasn't named franklin....it was something else.

was it called Social Security?

[born_cross_eyed]

Hmmm........That sounds like a "boiler room" type atmosphere that you worked in.

Well, the company was **** but they're not entirely to blame; ultimately the onus has to be on the consumer. I can't believe how many people are taken in by stupid commercials. It almost makes me want to invent some terrible product and then put up an infomercial, because whatever it is, plenty of people will buy it (as long as all of their credit cards aren't currently maxed out, that is).

I'm sure the company has a team of highly-paid lawyers to make sure they stay in technical compliance with the law, otherwise they probably would've been taken down by now (ala the "Enzyte" scam).

[Silver Art]

Well, the company was **** but they're not entirely to blame; ultimately the onus has to be on the consumer. I can't believe how many people are taken in by stupid commercials. It almost makes me want to invent some terrible product and then put up an infomercial, because whatever it is, plenty of people will buy it (as long as all of their credit cards aren't currently maxed out, that is).

I'm sure the company has a team of highly-paid lawyers to make sure they stay in technical compliance with the law, otherwise they probably would've been taken down by now (ala the "Enzyte" scam).

Yep it always comes down to the issue of the consumer needing to DYODD in order to avoid getting scammed. Franklin Mint did not put a gun to the consumer's head to force them to buy their product. As for the lawyers that FM probably has to keep them straight, then you are probably right.

[ToBeSelfEvident]

Saw my neighbor dragging cases of Beanie Babies out of her garage to take to Goodwill. She had like half a roomful of them, all in special display cases. She showed me one and said she paid $120 for it because it had to be smuggled from the UK by an airline pilot. That was back when $120 was a lot of money. Now it's worth maybe a quarter at the thrift store.

[~BS]

she couldn't sell it for more than that locally?

I'd say to ebay it, but shipping costs would likely not be worth it, as you'd probably have to sell 5 at a time or something in a medium flat rate box, which is $10 a pop.

Edit: Yeah, I just checked ebay, and some guy sold 220 of them for $100, which is less than $0.50 a piece. lol