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Scorpio
06-13-2012, 09:13 AM
North Dakota votes 'no' on ending property tax

By Blake Ellis and Aaron Smith @CNNMoney June 13, 2012: 6:47 AM ET


NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Voters in North Dakota, where the economy is swelling with money from the oil boom, have voted against abolishing property taxes in the state.

More than 76% voted "no" in Tuesday's initiative to get rid of the property tax, according to returns from the North Dakota Secretary of State.

North Dakota boasts the lowest state unemployment rate in the country and has become the nation's second-biggest oil producer. As a result of the energy rush, government coffers are flush with revenue.

The proposal, known as Measure 2, would have amended the state's constitution. If it had been approved, North Dakota would have been the only state without a property tax, according to the Tax Foundation, a research group that advocates for lower taxes.

Connie Sprynczynatyk, executive director of the North Dakota League of Cities and an opponent of the proposal, said there is no guarantee that the oil boom revenue is here to stay.

"North Dakotans have long been fans of local control," she said. "We were confident as soon as people realized the measure's dramatic shift away from local control, they would not support the measure."

Property tax is assessed based on the estimated value of a property. It is typically the source of a steady stream of revenue to fund government projects. At the same time, anti-tax advocates often identify it as a burdensome hit to homeowners.

Charlene Nelson, head of Empower the Taxpayer, the grassroots organization pushing Measure 2, had wanted to eliminate a tax that she considers unfair because it pushes many local citizens out of their homes who are on fixed incomes or have lost their jobs.

The economic boost of the new oil boom would have made this the perfect time for North Dakota voters to ban the property tax, she said.

While tax revenue at all the states grew an average of 9% last year, North Dakota's revenue surged 44%, according to Joe Henchman, vice president of legal and state projects at the Tax Foundation. From 1997 to 2011, the state's tax revenue has increased about 10% per year, while nationally it has risen about 4% per year.

The $800 million the state would have forgone in annual tax revenue represents about 23% of North Dakota's state and local tax revenue, according to the Tax Foundation.

Local governments opposed to the measure were worrying that the revenue hit would jeopardize funding for school systems, infrastructure projects and other key programs.

A number of states have discontinued income tax when they had another revenue source they could rely on instead. Alaska and Texas, for example, did this when they realized they generated enough tax revenue from oil, Henchman said.

http://money.cnn.com//2012/06/13/pf/north-dakota-property-tax/index.htm?section=money_pf&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fmoney_pf+%28Personal+Fi nance%29&utm_content=My+Yahoo

Usc96
06-13-2012, 09:31 AM
I suspect that the only states where this vote has a chance are ones that have taxpayer/freeloader tension. I suspect ND is fairly homogenous, so taxpayers feel that their tax money is not going to support someone else's lifestyle to their detriment.

Try this vote in another part of the country and a war will start.

Rusty Shackelford
06-13-2012, 09:54 AM
Hell I would vote no too. We went through big property tax reforms in Indiana a while back. Were going to have an amendment that capped taxes at 1% of homes assessed value but would add a 1% sales tax to our already 6% rate. Most people were not even taxed at the 1% threshold. But voters agreed on this amendment. The property tax saving most were wishing for either was never realized or was eaten up by the new sales tax. .gov will get its money. much like leos the government really does not have your best interest in mind

Irons
06-13-2012, 10:00 AM
I'm all for getting rid of property tax if at all possible. Starve the beast any way you can, paying sales tax is mostly voluntary anyway.

birddog
06-13-2012, 10:02 AM
I heard on the radio yesterday that their sales tax revenue was up over 80% in the last year.

Hell yeah I'd vote to get rid of property tax!!

Rusty Shackelford
06-13-2012, 10:42 AM
Problem in Indiana is that they never really got rid of property tax. just capped it. most people I know saw their property taxes go down $100 maybe $200 dollars, but saw their sales tax payment rise on fuel, heating ,electric,internet, phone and purchases (including gold and silver) by double that. They don't call him slick mitch for nothing.

gringott
06-13-2012, 11:01 AM
They tax every and anything you can think of in Kentucky, cable tv sat tv home insurance car insurance telephone cars house etc. You have to not use or have anything to escape the man. They now want to make the schools "recession proof" meaning they will jack up the taxes even more, and we have a mysterious county unification group that is trying to merge all the towns and cities and county government into one, I guess because it's easier to steal that way. I might have to move if it comes about, I don't like being a chump.

I drifted from my point, which is we have relatively low property taxes but they still get the money in taxes on everything else they can think of.

Zilver
06-13-2012, 02:51 PM
property tax caps are a joke

New York has a law that caps the growth of property taxes at 2% (or the rate of inflation)
but because a budget was not agreed upon the contingency budget with a 30% hike to the school tax was instituted
costing me nearly 1k more per year / Rat bastards!

Unclad Lad
06-13-2012, 02:52 PM
If the current tax is not onerous, and N. Dakotans are confident that their state representatives are on the level, then it makes sense not to get rid of it. Petroleum is a "Boom or Bust" industry. If tax money now maintains the infrastructure and builds a "rainy day" buffer, they're making the smart choice.

Irons
06-13-2012, 07:05 PM
If the current tax is not onerous, and N. Dakotans are confident that their state representatives are on the level, then it makes sense not to get rid of it. Petroleum is a "Boom or Bust" industry. If tax money now maintains the infrastructure and builds a "rainy day" buffer, they're making the smart choice.

Dude I mean no disrespect but thats like saying an addict will set aside some crack for later in the week.

smooth
06-13-2012, 07:45 PM
Dude I mean no disrespect but thats like saying an addict will set aside some crack for later in the week.

^exactly^ WTF? I'd like to own my "paid for" home someday.

Unclad Lad
06-14-2012, 12:46 AM
Sorry I'm not an anarchist!

Whatever you think of the State (and I'm suspicious myself), taxation is the standard means of collecting revenue. North Dakotans must have some level of trust in their state officials, because they declined to lower their own taxes. Infrastructure is crumbling across the entire country, and most states can barely patch the worst cases. If ND brings its roads, rails, and services grids up to date, it'll be in a great position to attract businesses.

I'm from Ohio, and now I live in California, so my trust of my elected representatives is zero. North Dakota may be different. It's been a fairly poor state for a long time, and it's undergoing an economic boom right now. It's barely possible they understand that booms come with busts, and they want to prepare.

Stranger things have happened.

Irons
06-14-2012, 05:24 AM
Sorry I'm not an anarchist!

Whatever you think of the State (and I'm suspicious myself), taxation is the standard means of collecting revenue. North Dakotans must have some level of trust in their state officials, because they declined to lower their own taxes. Infrastructure is crumbling across the entire country, and most states can barely patch the worst cases. If ND brings its roads, rails, and services grids up to date, it'll be in a great position to attract businesses.

I'm from Ohio, and now I live in California, so my trust of my elected representatives is zero. North Dakota may be different. It's been a fairly poor state for a long time, and it's undergoing an economic boom right now. It's barely possible they understand that booms come with busts, and they want to prepare.

Stranger things have happened.

Ah, you still have some faith! Thats a good thing I guess. I'm jaded beyond any faith in any form of .gov.

Scorpio
06-14-2012, 06:22 AM
to speak to unclads point,

awhile back a state senator was elected from there, his campaign promise was to go to washington and make a difference,

stated that if he couldn't make a difference to help turn this ship around, he would not run for reelection.

found out he couldn't, left in disgust after 1 term

was a man of his word

Scorp

<SLV>
06-14-2012, 06:25 AM
Property tax is immoral. It is a debt that can never be satisfied.

GOLDZILLA
06-14-2012, 07:05 AM
Might just be that they don't want shyteloads of people moving in and ruining the state with the socialism that inevitably comes with higher populations.

Mr Paradise
06-14-2012, 07:19 AM
. Property tax is immoral. It is a debt that can never be satisfied.


Yes. you can raise my sales tax, fuel tax, etc... An individual can determine how much of these taxes he pays.

But as long as their is property tax you never own your house or your land. Agenda 21 will make sure, prime property owners (farmers, ranchers, waterfront) will have their land confiscated thru EPA regulations and property taxes.

Unclad Lad
06-14-2012, 05:36 PM
Property tax is immoral. It is a debt that can never be satisfied.

I get that. Explain it to the folks in North Dakota.


Might just be that they don't want shyteloads of people moving in and ruining the state with the socialism that inevitably comes with higher populations.

Most people from other states accept property taxes, ESPECIALLY those from socialist states.

Are there any NDans on the board somewhere that can fill us in?