View Full Version : Silver
bemac
07-06-2011, 09:01 PM
I even hate to use price inflation but I find I am forced to on occasion!
LOL, yup. It all depends on who you're talking to. Can't just say "inflation," you have to add price, monetary, asset. :biggrin:
andial
07-06-2011, 09:08 PM
LOL, yup. It all depends on who you're talking to. Can't just say "inflation," you have to add price, monetary, asset. :biggrin:
Don't forget the money multiplier and total debt, since all money is debt!
bemac
07-06-2011, 09:11 PM
Don't forget the money multiplier and total debt, since all money is debt!
Hey, not ALL money!
new money
07-06-2011, 09:24 PM
War will "cure" the issues. China will field more men and material than any of its neighbors. They will expand and we will not have the will to stop them. China will occupy Asia and and Ocianna.
gpond
07-06-2011, 09:31 PM
http://www.thedailybell.com/2621/Moodys-Report-Blasts-China-Solvency
Gcubed
07-06-2011, 09:38 PM
http://www.thedailybell.com/2621/Moodys-Report-Blasts-China-Solvency
ZeroHedge? Come on gpond. I know you are more intelligent.
http://www.thedailybell.com/2621/Moodys-Report-Blasts-China-Solvency
Funny that, Chinas rating agency has the same worries about the US!
Wiess has you as a C and China as an A...
http://www.weissratings.com/news/articles/weiss-sovereign-debt-ratings/3.aspx
They are possibly the best looking horse in the glue factory!
What a great conversation you guys are having... very smart people here at GIM.
Let me add this: We are finding ourselves on an increasingly level playing field with China, yet our expectations for living standards are much higher.
Besides raw economics, this is also a psychological event. Chinese are realizing better living standards and willing to fight for them. The Americans are realizing worse living standard and may or may not be willing to maintain them.
Advantage China.
gpond
07-06-2011, 11:12 PM
Zed, you are arguing the US vs. China. Which is better? That is not at all what I am talking about.
To argue about that you need to do it with someone else.
fat panther
07-06-2011, 11:15 PM
Americans are totally brain dead! I'm embarrassed to be one in this conversation.
Gcubed
07-06-2011, 11:24 PM
gpond, I fail to see where China is in or can possibly dig themselves(any time soon) into a debt hole such as ours. Creditor nations have a far way to dig to be in the same situation as we in the USA are in. Am I missing something?
bemac
07-06-2011, 11:56 PM
The Americans are realizing worse living standard and may or may not be willing to maintain them.
Most Americans don't understand why their living standards are being lowered. They know they're getting screwed, but not necessarily how. "Tax the rich" and "more regulations" seem to sum up their bright ideas.
Zed, you are arguing the US vs. China. Which is better? That is not at all what I am talking about.
To argue about that you need to do it with someone else.
Not really, just pointing out that on the Weiss scale China gets an A while the US gets a C. Yet Moodys, who are concerned about China, rate California A ---> I will give long odds on Moody's call being correct in both instances, any organization that rates California that highly is slave to political masters, not reality.
So while all governments seem to setup finances that would see most of private enterprise broke, the Chinese are still the best looking nag at that glue factory!
Anyway, so no... not arguing China is better off than the USA, that is self evident, just arguing that Moodys are a crap rating house driven by politics more than reality when it comes to government ratings. I loved their call on Portugal, they could have made that ages ago but no... they wait until Greece is not getting the headlines THEN they fuel the fire some more. Masters of timing more than rating, they did the same with our banks, came out with the call just after big shorts had gone into place.... a call they could have made a year ago at least.
I trust Moodys as far as I can punt them.
lhslancers3270
07-07-2011, 12:08 AM
China good.
China good.
Now don't get carried away... we are still down the glue factory sticking FIAT notes together!
Gcubed
07-07-2011, 12:11 AM
China good.
China rich, not broke. China not fighting to increase debt limit so they can pay bills. ;)
China rich, not broke. China not fighting to increase debt limit so they can pay bills. ;)
China not fighting anyone for that matter!
lhslancers3270
07-07-2011, 12:13 AM
China not fighting anyone for that matter!
They sure got a whole lotta guys milling around for no good reason then.
lhslancers3270
07-07-2011, 12:15 AM
China rich, not broke. China not fighting to increase debt limit so they can pay bills. ;)
Some Chinese rich. Some Chinese not got two chopsticks to rub together.
Gcubed
07-07-2011, 12:20 AM
Some Chinese rich. Some Chinese not got two chopsticks to rub together.
Same thing here. China pays their bills. WE want to borrow from THEM to pay our bills. Ask Barak if you don't believe me. ;)
They sure got a whole lotta guys milling around for no good reason then.
So what? Much cheaper than fighting everyone in a global moral crusade.
Some Chinese rich. Some Chinese not got two chopsticks to rub together.
Sure... but the trend is up... not down like some places.
Same thing here. China pays their bills. WE want to borrow from THEM to pay our bills. Ask Barak if you don't believe me. ;)
40c borrowed in every dollar spent no less. Meanwhile China lends its SURPLUS!
gpond
07-07-2011, 08:04 PM
gpond, I fail to see where China is in or can possibly dig themselves(any time soon) into a debt hole such as ours. Creditor nations have a far way to dig to be in the same situation as we in the USA are in. Am I missing something?
I have no idea why my statements are in any way controversial, nor what you could be missing about what I said. I never said that they are going into a 'debt hole such as ours'.
I merely intended to contribute that after a bank funny-money induced boom (creditor nation, or not), just as the US suffered a depression after 1929, so do I suspect China to suffer their own 'bust', aka a recession, what used to be called a depression until it was politically insensitive to call it that. BTW, that doesn't mean going from 8% to 4%, but rather going negative.
I realize now that an article was posted, perhaps bashing(?) China, but I didn't read it, so I was not piling on. If you read what I said (versus anything about the article) I tried to say what I meant. A bust (recession) follows an artificial boom, even as night follows day, to wear out a phrase.
The US wasn't a debtor nation, and we WERE creating wealth up until the Great Depression. So was Japan a nation of great savers before their 'lost decade', that has currently lasted more than 20 years.
What I said (as opposed to any article) was that IF China is doing the things (funny money) that I hear that they are doing, then there will be reckoning (I have defined that already in this post). I do not mean that they are in the morass that the US is in. Simply that there will be an 'adjustment'.
I think we were possibly talking past each other yesterday. Not disagreeing, necessarily, but simply not understanding? As stated, I had not read the article that kicked off the whole discussion.
Small consolation for me: at least BeMac understood me at first. (Before I started slurring my words? Dunno.)
lhslancers3270
07-07-2011, 08:23 PM
Sure... but the trend is up... not down like some places.
I have no doubt the East will rise and the West will fall at least for a time. That's the way it is. The average American still has it way better than his Eastern counterpart but I expect they catch up within the next 100 years maybe less. We got a long way to fall they got a long way to rise.
Gcubed
07-07-2011, 08:26 PM
Fair enough Sir. One mans "recession" may well be another mans "slow down". I just hope and pray that our country will once again produce the wealth necessary to support us. I believe that some mind sets must change in order for us to achieve that. Protect you and yours my friend.
'cubed
Edit: I should have quoted gpond. Someone snuck in before my post. :biggrin:
gpond
07-07-2011, 08:27 PM
100 years
Optimist! :biggrin:
(ten characters)
lhslancers3270
07-07-2011, 08:30 PM
Optimist! :biggrin:
(ten characters)
Less than 50 probably. They have so many people who would love to live as well as our poor. Not for me but some guys live on a bowl of rice in China. I doubt most live like Jim Rogers or the heads of their political parties.
Gcubed
07-07-2011, 08:34 PM
Less than 50 probably. They have so many people who would love to live as well as our poor. Not for me but some guys live on a bowl of rice in China. I doubt most live like Jim Rogers or the heads of their political parties.
That alone is fuel for growth. Think of what folks went through here in the 19th and early 20th centuries. I've no doubt that China will become an even greater power. They will however, certainly suffer a few bumps in the road.
Weatherman
07-07-2011, 08:40 PM
This is not an attempt to hijack this thread, but I would like to interject a brief note about silver. :wink:
The COT report breaks down the positions based upon the type of market participants. In our analysis we monitor the net positions of non-commercials (speculators) and commercials. The total level of positions can be significant, however, what interests us more is the rate of change in positions. When there is a dramatic decline in positions of both commercial and non commercial participants due to a shift in market direction it serves as a buy alert. As of last week commercials have reduced their shorts by 48% and non-commercials by 61%. This produces the ninth cluster of alerts in the data (available from the CFTC back to 1986).
For those investors with deep pockets is it time to begin accumulating bullion and related stocks.
More, with charts, at: Silver: COT Levels into Accumulation Territory (http://www.321gold.com/editorials/hoye/hoye070711.html)
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