whats better to hoard - pennies or nickels?

[97guns]

i just started sorting pennies and was wondering what would be the better coin to hoard. i like the idea of the low cost penny but like nickels because i wouldnt have to sort. if i hadnt blown my wad on gold and silver i'd love to have a good 3-5K in nickels. just wondering which one has the better opportunity for growth?

[Pragmatist]

Copper is flirting with all time highs. The Chinese will need both for infrastructure. Diversify! Your basically aquiring both under spot.
~Prag

[GOLDZILLA]

More bang for the buck with pennies, but you never have to sort nickels. The question is: Are you lazy or not? I'm lazy, so I like nickels.

[KGMe]

Why nickels? I understand pre-1982 pennies are worth 2.5 cents in copper, but what is are nickles worth?

[Fatboy]

Why nickels? I understand pre-1982 pennies are worth 2.5 cents in copper, but what is are nickles worth?

.058

http://www.coinflation.com/coins/bas...alculator.html

[pay dirt]

Nickels are currently worth $0.0638374

Pre 82 Cu pennies are $0.0269996. Getting closer to 3x face.

[fasTTcar]

Canadian nickels are better.

From Coinflation:

1955 - 1981 Nickel $0.05 $0.1079533

I sell them for .11 each delivered in minimum $250 lots.

[charlie1023]

All true but it can't get any easier to collect pennies than by going and getting penny boxes from the bank. I have been having really good luck lately and over the past few weeks are collecting copper pennies at about a 40% clip whereas I normally run at about a 25% clip collecting copper. Cant beat that return for the ease of acquisition of the coins.....

[97guns]

More bang for the buck with pennies, but you never have to sort nickels. The question is: Are you lazy or not? I'm lazy, so I like nickels.

well ive been stacking nickels, i guess im lazy. ive managed to stack 12 boxes so far and am looking to add another 20 or so before i call it a day. i did sort around a dozen boxes of pennies but i think im done with them.

[TnAndy]

Canadian nickels are better.

From Coinflation:

1955 - 1981 Nickel $0.05 $0.1079533

I sell them for .11 each delivered in minimum $250 lots.

AND the US can't make it illegal to melt Canadian nickels, hey !

[Bogie]

While I keep all Nickles I still sort them for the rare silver one at least there easy to spot

[Nickelless]

One problem you might encounter with nickels and not so much with pennies is that various foreign coins or non-monetary tokens might end up in the batch--so those people who say that you really don't have to sort nickels aren't necessarily right--but it's a little easier than sorting copper pennies from zincs. Here's a bunch of nickels I got in a $100 bag a while back. Look at the items in the bottom row--got a few Canadians, a few other foreign coins and a notched disc of some kind:

[Lt Dan]

I save both, but have not bought any for a while. If you can't sell them for spot, they are still only worth face, unless they have some numismatic value.

[Heads_Up]

I could make out that at least one of the Canadian nickles was pre 1982, which would make it 99.9% nickel.

[AGgressive Metal]

Pre-82 cents are by far more bang for the buck. Plus they are not some weird 75/25 split, they are 95% pure.

[Mined Games 2]

I'm all about the pennies for now. My thought on nickels is that I can get them whenever I want. Even if they were to announce tomorrow that they're going to change the composition of nickels from cupronickel to steel, there would still be plenty of time to go to the bank and get a few grand's worth of nickels. I think the % of copper pennies in circulation is destined to dip sharply once we get over the 3X face mark for pennies. And that's only a short-term scenario. As for more long term, I can easily see copper going to $10/lb., which would put us at roughly 6X face value. By the time we get here, I expect the % in circulation to be into the single digits, making sorting much less profitable. I'm currently pulling out an average of about 26 or 27%, which I consider to be 'good pickings'.

I'm fortunate to have enough free time on my hands to sort. I can understand going for nickels if you can't spare the time to devote to pennies. But that being said, I think pennies should be more highly coveted due to their superior metal value to face value ratio, and the dwindling time window factor.

[charlie1023]

Going thru a few penny boxes this w/e and as I was sorting out the coppers and wheaties, I pulled one out that upon further inspection showed up as a 1909! I gingerly flipped it over and down there at the bottom were the magic initials VDB which really gave me a smile. Granted it wasn't an "S" variety but it is in pretty good shape and made my day. OK, back to sorting....

[winslo]

I find a lot of 82 and some 83 are copper also.

[CQC McDuck]

Pennies FTW. I sort about 4 to 5 boxes a week atm. My goal this year is to horde $2000 face of Cu.

Plenty of upside and no downside except for lost time.

[CQC McDuck]

I find a lot of 82 and some 83 are copper also.

I've never come across an 83 copper. 82 was the change over year from copper to zinc. I use a pocket scale to verify the weights of coins I'm unsure about. Copper = 3.11g and Zinc=2.5g

[charlie1023]

I've never come across an 83 copper. 82 was the change over year from copper to zinc. I use a pocket scale to verify the weights of coins I'm unsure about. Copper = 3.11g and Zinc=2.5g

I agree, I have never seen nor heard of an 83 copper. A scale is a must when doing the sorting thing, specifically for the 82's though do it long enough and you can almost distinguish between the coppers and zincs just by the strike/finish on the penny. All of the copper pennies look so much better than the newer zinc pennies, guess they just don't make them like they used to!

[reptiles]

So whats the best tactic to acquire boxes of nickels from banks?

Some tellers are just not interested.

Any tips or hints?

I drove around to 6 banks yesterday and came up with just 1 box. Even opened 2 savings accounts.

[SongSungAU]

Any tips or hints?

I drove around to 6 banks yesterday and came up with just 1 box. Even opened 2 savings accounts.

If they don't have an unopened box on hand at the time you ask, ask them to order you a box or two. I've not heard of a bank refusing to order boxes of them if you are a customer of theirs.

[<===Foolsgold]

Nickels aren't worth a dime anymore.

[highroller4321]

I don't get how this is even an arguement. 1 copper penny is work 2.8 cents. 1 nickel is worth 6.9 cents. 2.8 times 5=14 cents Invest the same amount and you have over 2x the value!


Yes, there is sorting/ buying involved but the wait period for the ban to come off is going to be a lot less for the penny.


http://www.portlandmint.com/collector_pennies.php

[SongSungAU]

I don't get how this is even an arguement.

Yes, there is sorting/ buying involved but the wait period for the ban to come off is going to be a lot less for the penny.

No argument... just some people don't want to spend their time sorting.
I have a question though. You say, "...but the wait period for the ban to come off is going to be a lot less for the penny."
What makes you think so? The ban was put on both the nickel and penny at the same time (the end of 2006). Why would it come at different times when it is lifted?

New rules outlaw melting pennies, nickels for profit
Posted 12/14/2006
By Barbara Hagenbaugh, USA TODAY
http://www.usatoday.com/money/2006-1...ban-usat_x.htm

[charlie1023]

So whats the best tactic to acquire boxes of nickels from banks?

Some tellers are just not interested.

Any tips or hints?

I drove around to 6 banks yesterday and came up with just 1 box. Even opened 2 savings accounts.

Hey reptiles,
Like stated here already, have your bank order you boxes direct from Brinks, Loomis or whomever supplies your bank with coinage. Depending on the bank, they may charge you fees for boxes like we have seen for halves and quarters though I have not encountered that for pennies and nickels. I know some banks are hesitant to order these boxes for you and that is where you need to step up and strike a relationship not just with teller but the supervisor behind the window as he/she is the one who will place and sanction any box orders. At least that is my experience so far with the 2 banks I deal with. I have boxes of pennies and nickels come in on a standing order so that I pick up every Friday, I sort the pennies and stack the nickels and once in a while I'll prospect for silver with a couple of boxes of halves. Lay the charm on and you should have no problem getting your metal at face value and start to hoard your copper for a discount that just can't be beat! Good luck.

[highroller4321]

No argument... just some people don't want to spend their time sorting.
I have a question though. You say, "...but the wait period for the ban to come off is going to be a lot less for the penny."
What makes you think so? The ban was put on both the nickel and penny at the same time (the end of 2006). Why would it come at different times when it is lifted?

New rules outlaw melting pennies, nickels for profit
Posted 12/14/2006
By Barbara Hagenbaugh, USA TODAY
http://www.usatoday.com/money/2006-1...ban-usat_x.htm

The U.S won't be getting rid of the nickel anytime soon. The penny days may be numbered. Also since there is no sorting required with the nickels they would dissapear a LOT faster than the pennies. If you melt a zinc penny you will actually lose money.

[Apocalypto]

I know this sounds like a cop-out, but both. The fact is both copper and nickel are increasing in value and both will continue to do so. Both copper and nickel are available via regular currency channels, and both copper and nickel will not be available this way in the future. We all know the law, but I'll spit it out one more time just to solidify the point: Gresham's law.

Let's just take a step back and admit the obvious: It's very bizarre to go onto ebay and see people paying $2.55 for an old dime. $6.39 for a quarter. etc. You know the drill. But bizarre or not, it's a reality. Nickel and copper is the silver of the future.

The government and banks are handing out real money in nickels and pennies. It's not going to last. Here in Canada our mint has an alloy recovery program going in full swing, and over the years I have witnessed its effect. When I go to the bank and buy a box of nickels, I am finding my % numbers are dwindling, and that is too bad, because these nickels are 99% pure. Awesome. But I keep buying them now and then, go through a box and pull what I can.

Usually I'll go through pennies since my percentages are staggeringly higher. Last week I pulled a 1931 in almost perfect shape, and recently I pulled 2 x 65's in clearly perfect shape, so the bank must have pulled a brand new unopened 1965 roll off the shelf and cracked it open to complete a roll they were making.

The cool thing for you Americans is that you don't need to do any work with your nickels! I would love to have the option to just walk into a bank and grab a box and put it away and that's that. I would take advantage of those nickels for sure. Your penny situation is similar to ours, and you need to sort through them, but when you find those nuggets like a really nice 1931 that's also a bonus.

[Mined Games 2]

I've been engaged in a war of words with an anti-copper poster in another thread in the Gold, Silver PM section. It's a thread about whether there's a number where you'd stop buying PMs. I stated that I had reached that point, and am now concentrating on copper pennies and nickels to round out my metals stash. Well let's say I took a little abuse for that strategy. Reading Apocalypto's above post was a refreshing shot in the arm after being among some people that treat base metals with contempt.

What happens when silver gets too expensive for the average Joe? Is there another metal that's better fit to replace silver than copper? If so, I'd like to know!

[RoyalBeluga]

I've been engaged in a war of words with an anti-copper poster in another thread in the Gold, Silver PM section. It's a thread about whether there's a number where you'd stop buying PMs. I stated that I had reached that point, and am now concentrating on copper pennies and nickels to round out my metals stash. Well let's say I took a little abuse for that strategy. Reading Apocalypto's above post was a refreshing shot in the arm after being among some people that treat base metals with contempt.

What happens when silver gets too expensive for the average Joe? Is there another metal that's better fit to replace silver than copper? If so, I'd like to know!

but copper goes a yucky colour and it ends up smelling real bad when that happens, who wants to fondle a stinky brown block of metal?

[ralleia]

The U.S won't be getting rid of the nickel anytime soon. The penny days may be numbered. Also since there is no sorting required with the nickels they would dissapear a LOT faster than the pennies. If you melt a zinc penny you will actually lose money.

Truly?

I just got my seven-year-old a piggy bank and was planning on paying her for chores all in nickels and pennies. (And threaten her with bodily harm if she spends any of them...) Does this mean I'll need to pre-sort all the pennies to ditch the ones that are '82 and later?

[ccjoe]

I've been engaged in a war of words with an anti-copper poster in another thread in the Gold, Silver PM section. It's a thread about whether there's a number where you'd stop buying PMs. I stated that I had reached that point, and am now concentrating on copper pennies and nickels to round out my metals stash. Well let's say I took a little abuse for that strategy. Reading Apocalypto's above post was a refreshing shot in the arm after being among some people that treat base metals with contempt.

What happens when silver gets too expensive for the average Joe? Is there another metal that's better fit to replace silver than copper? If so, I'd like to know!

Don't even try to argue with the buffoons here who made fun of me buying 3750 finished kilo, investment grade bars. They don't get it that you have to hedge your silver bets. They continue to think holding gold is the best way to go. WOW as some idiot said to me.
I just came back from our security site and feel good having those cu keys sitting there in case my hundreds of pounds of silver coins don't continue to double as they have.
I just closed the kids accounts at the bank to buy MORE silver if we have a dip and the bank manager wanted me to talk to their investment expert as he could get the kids 3% a year. I showed her my ASE on my cell and told her we made that yesterday in silver. She gets it, I think as I explained a few things to her along with others there listening

[spathatos]

Don't even try to argue with the buffoons here who made fun of me buying 3750 finished kilo, investment grade bars. They don't get it that you have to hedge your silver bets. They continue to think holding gold is the best way to go. WOW as some idiot said to me.
I just came back from our security site and feel good having those cu keys sitting there in case my hundreds of pounds of silver coins don't continue to double as they have.
I just closed the kids accounts at the bank to buy MORE silver if we have a dip and the bank manager wanted me to talk to their investment expert as he could get the kids 3% a year. I showed her my ASE on my cell and told her we made that yesterday in silver. She gets it, I think as I explained a few things to her along with others there listening

Perhaps you should read the posts before you go making assumptions on what the topic was.

I have no problem with no premium pennies and nickels as you cannot lose money with them. I have a problem with paying a premium for them or treating them in the same league as real money.
There is extreme confusion regarding the monetization qualities associated with base metals. They are rising against inflation alone (the entire point of the other posts). That is the simple point I was making. They lack the qualities of real money.

As a true hedge regarding asset protection and wealth management base metals of any kind are sorely lacking. Will they make you some money, yes, but not the kind real money has made already or will make.

Link to the posts Mined Games 2 is reffering to:
http://goldismoney2.com/showthread.p...ld-stop-buying

Why it is not a true hedge.
http://www.safehaven.com/article/5693/base-metals

Why I am in favor of none premium copper and nickel
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials...eld110106.html

[GodspeedMetals]

I've recently emptied out my coins and sorted out the copper pennies and all the nickels I can find. I have a nice stash as is, but I don't want to go out and exchange paper dollars for nickel rolls anytime soon. The sheer weight of all that stuff slows you down if you have to move in a moments notice. My wife keeps telling me to pour it all in a coin sorter by the supermarket and get some paper money for it... "And what? Give Coin Star all that *bleepin'* profit???"

The weight issue also applies to silver and gold as well. I've been defending silver purchases against the pro-gold / silver secondary crowd, only because of the percentage bang for your buck against gold. And of course, silver investors were right. Silver performance in the last 10 years is slightly over 1000%!!!!!!!! Whereas with gold, it's 500+%. DOUBLE percentage-wise.

But at some point, the strategy has to change. Don't fear change - just make the right life-changing decisions. This strategy coincides with the possibility of having to relocate against my will - i.e., natural disaster, nuclear fallout, govt-induced attack, etc etc. I'm going to look for a silver to gold conversion strategy at some point - possibly when silver hits the $50 price-point. This is to make myself more mobile - since lugging large loads of heavy metal won't get you far anywhere.

[cpthnsolo]

I don't get how this is even an arguement. 1 copper penny is work 2.8 cents. 1 nickel is worth 6.9 cents. 2.8 times 5=14 cents Invest the same amount and you have over 2x the value!
Yes, there is sorting/ buying involved but the wait period for the ban to come off is going to be a lot less for the penny.

Who are you to say that the ban will come off the penny first? No one knows the answer to that question... As for the original question the correct answer is both IMO. I sort pocket change for pennies, but I pick up nickel boxes at the bank if I need to go anyway for essentially a ZERO dollar and time investment. Picking up pennies, sorting them, and then disposing of zincs takes hours every week. In the same amount of time it takes someone to sort two boxes of pennies by hand, I can find and turn in $50 worth of scrap metal just by driving around for an hour or two on trash night. Unless you have no family, or simply enjoy the hassles of sorting for hours a week for no immediate return, then sorting pennies over simply stacking nickels doesn't make sense.

[cpthnsolo]

Pre-82 cents are by far more bang for the buck. Plus they are not some weird 75/25 split, they are 95% pure.

What a bunch of rubbish. Most major scrap dealers buy various grades (70/30, 90/10, etc.) of cupro-nickel RIGHT NOW so whenever the ban is lifted rest assured the scrap yards will be ready to buy both pennies and nickels. Just because you're not familiar with industrial metals doesn't make them weird .

[ErrosionOfAccord]

Coinstar sucks. I'm not saying all banks will do it, but mine will run my change through a counter and deposit the paper value into my account free of charge.

As to the OP I save them both but if I were buying bricks it would definitely be nickles. Real pennies are getting far to rare to sort out of a brick. Just guessing but I think it's about a 7:1 zinc to copper nowadays.

[ErrosionOfAccord]

dupe 10 characters

[charlie1023]

Coinstar sucks. I'm not saying all banks will do it, but mine will run my change through a counter and deposit the paper value into my account free of charge.

As to the OP I save them both but if I were buying bricks it would definitely be nickles. Real pennies are getting far to rare to sort out of a brick. Just guessing but I think it's about a 7:1 zinc to copper nowadays.

I do both pennies and nickels but am seeing about a 3 to 3.5:1 ratio of zinc to copper pennies so they are still out there.....

[cpthnsolo]

I do both pennies and nickels but am seeing about a 3 to 3.5:1 ratio of zinc to copper pennies so they are still out there.....

Congrats! You're pulling an incredible ratio as down here in Central Florida I almost never break 20% (5:1) on a box. Typically it's 17% for me. It truly seems to be a regional thing though as I know other people who have averaged 30%. There was a thread on realcent at one time where everyone chimed in with averages and their location (roughly) and you could clearly see that some areas in the country were better than others.

[charlie1023]

Congrats! You're pulling an incredible ratio as down here in Central Florida I almost never break 20% (5:1) on a box. Typically it's 17% for me. It truly seems to be a regional thing though as I know other people who have averaged 30%. There was a thread on realcent at one time where everyone chimed in with averages and their location (roughly) and you could clearly see that some areas in the country were better than others.

No doubt, I run across some "skunkers" where I'll get a very poor ratio of copper to zinc, however I have also had some monster boxes that ran at 80-90% copper as they were rolls brought in by customers to the bank. You just never know and my teller friend has explicit directions to leave penny deposits for me for my weekly p/u as they seem to yield very nice results in this area of the Treasure Coast.

[PhucilliJerry]

I've been running about 45% on customer wrapped rolls and 30% on boxed rolls. I certainly don't count each roll, maybe every 10th or so. The most from one roll was 36, the least was 11. Have even found some very dark/dirty dimes in some customer rolls, no pre-'65s though.......

[Argentium]

I work in the metals biz and have a fair handle about scrap grading/prices. IMO, even if the melt ban on pennies is lifted, people holding large amounts of 95% Cu pennies, will not even get a #2 Cu scrap price. Why, you may ask? Scrap buyers are a notorious hard-nosed bunch. Say you bring in ton quantities of sorted pennies. The buyer is going to wonder how many zincolns you have mixed in and pass on the whole lot. They aren't going to care if you swear that the lot has been hand-sorted, or run through a Ryedale and he isn't going to waste time checking grab samples.

[Barrettone]

I work in the metals biz and have a fair handle about scrap grading/prices. IMO, even if the melt ban on pennies is lifted, people holding large amounts of 95% Cu pennies, will not even get a #2 Cu scrap price. Why, you may ask? Scrap buyers are a notorious hard-nosed bunch. Say you bring in ton quantities of sorted pennies. The buyer is going to wonder how many zincolns you have mixed in and pass on the whole lot. They aren't going to care if you swear that the lot has been hand-sorted, or run through a Ryedale and he isn't going to waste time checking grab samples.

That's why you melt them into kilo bars (easy to do). I am in the business as well (director of operations for a large scrap outfit with 4 yards and over 100 employees, and I am the #2 man in the company), and we would just shoot the ingot with the spectragram to get the purity/content to calculate the return. At 95% CU, we would give #1 prices (but not clean and bright). So, I don't think your argument holds water as long as the customer wants to melt them down. I would know, I am the guy running the purchasing division and setting policy.

Sorry to call out a fellow person in the business, but that is the facts. Incidentally, at what level are you involved in the business? I find it hard to believe you think you cannot make money purchasing 95% ingots at gate price for #1 copper.

YMMV

[Argentium]

Barretone, I'm in the iron foundry business, so I deal primarily with ferrous materials, but buy a fair amount of Cu for alloying purposes. Any but trace amounts of Zn in my copper chops has a very deleterious effect on cast irons; it is a poison.

Zn while used in varying amounts of copper-based products (wrought and cast), is undesired in grades like electrical-grade copper products. The main use for 95/5 would naturally be in brass operations, where some alloys run up to 30% Zn content. As a charge material for brass production, it would have advantages over scrap brass, due to it's uniform composition and sizing (great bulk density!). Still, I could never see a buyer paying #1 Cu prices for pennies.

[HoldingAg]

Some of the looks, and attitude I have got from bank tellers/supervisors when trying to cop boxes of nickels at banks where I didn't have an account were priceless. They make you feel like your really wasting their time, screw them. My current strategy has been to go to my bank that I have an account at, get friendly with the tellers, and like someone said before, lay on the charm. I first would ask for 1 box of pennies. Then after my first 4 or 5 trips for 1 box, I started asking for 2 boxes (50bucks worth) at a time. They are cool with it. The last 4 boxes I have got have been with two different kind of brown paper on the rolls. One kind of paper being more like paperbag material and the other being a newer smoother brown paper material... anyway I have been getting way more copper pennies in these boxes, and LOADS of WHEATIES. In a typical box, I was lucky to get 5 to 15 wheats per box. In these boxes I've been getting 50-70 wheaties or more per box.

Heres a good tip I learned on youtube: the guy basically said he charmed up a relationship with his tellers and asks them to weigh the boxes for him. They know he likes the heavier boxes. Heavy boxes equal more copper! I haven't done this yet, have to work up to it.

Also I offer to walk to the nearest window to the vault so they don't have to carry them far. They seem to appreciate it.

One more thing that I think is another good tip: I typically only ask for boxes as change in a withdrawal. I will withdraw say $200 and ask for $50 in pennies. Or I will deposit cash or a check and then say oh can I have a box or 2 boxes. I think it makes it seem like I have other business in the bank other than just being a penny nerd.

I asked my wife if I should buy a couple of the tellers gift cards or visa gift cards and she said that would be extra creepy. lol.


HoldingAg

[porcupine73]

Hm good tips. I'm thinking of starting to pick up boxes of nickels if I can get them. I have a couple small (I mean really small) business accounts with a local bank chain so maybe the tip of depositing and then withdrawing in nickels would work. I haven't asked anywhere yet. These weight what about 20 lb per box? So more than 2 boxes at a time is going to get awkward to try to carry out in one trip. Hahaa maybe I'll do it at the drive through. Pennies I'd be interested in but I am definitely not interested in sorting.

I was thinking of trying coin roll hunting again just for fun. Now that I know the coinstar machines will give full value as a gift card for a lot of places I figure that might be an easy way to get rid of the extras without having to rewrap or try to cash them in elsewhere.