My trip to five Walmarts, just-in-time inventory and de facto food-price inflation

[Nickelless]

The zombies have already taken over WalMart:

http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/?page_id=9798

Not all creepy-looking people are zombies, and vice versa. The zombies most of us probably plan for (or against) are the people who failed to prep and will do any number of desperate, dangerous or criminal things to get what they want in a SHTF scenario, especially one that lasts a long time. The key, of course, is to stock up now while you can.

And with regard to my original post in this thread, I visited a Costco last week and have some observations I'll offer hopefully in a few days when I have more time to write.

[GOLDZILLA]

Not all creepy-looking people are zombies, and vice versa. The zombies most of us probably plan for (or against) are the people who failed to prep and will do any number of desperate, dangerous or criminal things to get what they want in a SHTF scenario, especially one that lasts a long time. The key, of course, is to stock up now while you can.

And with regard to my original post in this thread, I visited a Costco last week and have some observations I'll offer hopefully in a few days when I have more time to write.

if it doesnt play you can watch it here:

http://www.imdb.com/video/wab/vi3454206233/


http://www.imdb.com/video/wab/vi3454206233/

[Nickelless]

Bump.

My fiancee finally read this thread yesterday after much gentle prodding from me and months of her trying to wrap her brain around the magnitude of the problem posed by just-in-time inventory. I have a feeling that very soon she and I will be going on one of these huge preps shopping sprees together. I think our marriage will get off to a great start in October. Shopping for preps is SO much easier when your significant other is on board with you.

[11s11ver]

bump

[Ishkabibble]

I've been rotating food for about five years now. I always buy in bulk at the best price available, and I keep track of what I pay for various goods. Some of the more notable increases in the last three years are (in CAD):

Campbell's BPA enriched soup - $3.99 a case is now $6.49. Regular price is now $9.99 to $11.99
Chef Boy are you chowin down on sodium - $0.50 a can is now $1.00. Regular price now $1.87
18lbs cesium fortified sushi rice - $6.99 a bag is now $13.99 and it doesn't go on sale.
Mercury laced tuna by the can - $0.69 is now $0.93. Regular price is now $1.17
"Fresh" Pacific Salmon in a large can (yes, the can actually says fresh on it!) - $1.99 is now $2.99 and the reg price is $3.69
Generic flour, 22lb - $4.99 is now $7.79 and regularly $8.99
Lean ground beast, per kg - $3.69 is now $6.71
Kraft Dinner case of 12 - $4.99 is now $7.99 and regularly $9.99
Yogurt cups - $0.33 is now $0.66 and regularly $0.79
Ichiban noodles - $0.17 is now $0.25 and regularly $0.33

Those comparisons are of the last three years. They are in but one small part of Canada, but they still show the truth about food costs. I had a receipt in an old box from March 2007. Looking at the prices on it provided much to think about. Cheap grub has risen the most. The middle class is getting squeezed into the food products that were traditionally for the poor. It's causing those prices to rise while creating a vacuum in the demand for quality. How this plays out in the pocketbook is that the top experiences little change, the middle eats lower grade food but can keep costs similar, and the bottom is squeezed out.

I have also noticed that the frequency and size of sales has changed. There used to be many items at a good discount, but now there are a few 'feature' items that are showcased to make the sale look better than it is. The frequency of sales has also decreased. There aren't as many loss leaders out there.

One last comment - I check all these items weekly as my means of watching food inflation, but I don't buy them any more. I've transcended to real food.

[Treasure Searcher]

It is hard to buy food for long term, as it might spoil.

I prefer to hedge on petroleum products. Around 1996, I was buying cases of Penzoil
5W30 and 10W30 motor oil for 69 cents a quart. Now, that same brand quart is $3.33 at the same store on sale. Still have some of that 69 cent quarts to use!

About a year ago, I bought $450.00 worth of motor oil, hydraulic oil, grease tubes and lead substitute additive. If the mushroom cloud blows in the Middle East, I will be hedged for awhile for those items.

These petroleum products will keep my tractor running to grow food.

[Nickelless]

Wow, bump on an old thread.

Incidentally, I'll be posting a new thread hopefully later today with observations on being in the midst of a friendly crowd of several hundred people and what things could look like if it suddenly turns bad. A concert in my town a couple weeks ago and another event my fiancee and I attended where ticked-off ticketholders could've made things turn ugly very quickly should give us insight on the need to stock up now, for our own safety. I'll post a link to that new thread here.

[kiffertom]

very good ... I noticed the price of various seasonings are going up. Anyone notice the price for McCormick products lately? I found some knock off varieties still for a 'reasonable' price. Some McCormick varieties were 3x in price.

ive been going to the little foreign markets for spices. screw mccormicks! i can buy a pound of peppercorns, chili powder and bay leaves and cumin each for $3.99 at the indian grocery. ive given up going to the big box stores. they rape us everyday.

[Nickelless]

ive been going to the little foreign markets for spices. screw mccormicks! i can buy a pound of peppercorns, chili powder and bay leaves and cumin each for $3.99 at the indian grocery. ive given up going to the big box stores. they rape us everyday.

Don't point-blank write off the big box stores. They are the least-expensive places to get certain preps if you shop around and compare prices. I've got hundreds of pounds of rice and beans, oats and canned goods that I've bought from Walmart and Sam's Club.

[HairHopper]

Grocery store spices, especially McCormicks, are in monster cable ripoff territory. Costco is good for bulk spices, but like what was mentioned above, go to the ethnic stores or Amazon.

[Goldhedge]

I went to the local bigbox grocer for some chili pepper seeds for a marinade.

McCormick (and the rest) were $4 - $5 for a 3.25/oz bottle.

I thought, Mexican! I went over to the Mexican isle and got a pre packaged bag with probably 8 oz for about $2.50.


At home - I filled an old oregano bottle with the chili and still had a bunch left in the bag.

[Nickelless]

Grocery store spices, especially McCormicks, are in monster cable ripoff territory. Costco is good for bulk spices, but like what was mentioned above, go to the ethnic stores or Amazon.

Just how much money would you save by only buying spices from certain stores? It's not like you're spending nearly as much on spices as you are on food. For that matter, buying spices in bulk quantities makes perfect sense for long-term food storage to keep your food from getting boring, and you really NEED spices to keep that from happening. I buy my spices in bulk and store them in quart-sized mason jars.

[Ishkabibble]

Just how much money would you save by only buying spices from certain stores? It's not like you're spending nearly as much on spices as you are on food. For that matter, buying spices in bulk quantities makes perfect sense for long-term food storage to keep your food from getting boring, and you really NEED spices to keep that from happening. I buy my spices in bulk and store them in quart-sized mason jars.

High five on that one. I do it too, but admittedly I use smaller jars. I find the 2 cup masons to be about right for most spices. Anything more and they'll go stale while you use them. For the spices I use in small quantities, I actually use 1 cup masons. Tiny things... but useful.

Small suggestions -
1. I see your spices have not been packed down. The more air you displace from your jars, the more longevity you will get from your spices. You also get more into the jar, minimizing your needed storage space. I find I get about 30% more in my jars when I tamp ground spices down.
2. I store whole spices whenever possible. They last longer and have MUCH more flavour when finally ground.

[Nickelless]

It is hard to buy food for long term, as it might spoil.

I prefer to hedge on petroleum products. Around 1996, I was buying cases of Penzoil
5W30 and 10W30 motor oil for 69 cents a quart. Now, that same brand quart is $3.33 at the same store on sale. Still have some of that 69 cent quarts to use!

About a year ago, I bought $450.00 worth of motor oil, hydraulic oil, grease tubes and lead substitute additive. If the mushroom cloud blows in the Middle East, I will be hedged for awhile for those items.

These petroleum products will keep my tractor running to grow food.

Don't put off stocking up on food just because you're worried about shelf life.

Rice and dry beans and other bulk grains have an indefinite shelf life if stored properly (brown rice much less time than white rice), and canned goods have been found to remain nutritionally intact for several years after the date stamped on them. It's really not difficult to stock up on foods with a long storage life and not hard to stock up on what you already eat anyway if you just buy extra of what you normally eat and build up a surplus. I use between 5 and 10 percent of my take-home pay every week for extra food for my pantry.

I'm resisting the urge to post photos of cans of carrots, but these photos should give you an idea of what you can stock up in a very short period of time if you set aside just 5 percent of your take-home pay and use it for food storage. The bottom photo is of about 60 pounds of oats sealed up in mylar bags. Rice and beans are even denser and I can fit about 30 pounds of rice or 25 pounds of beans in a 5-gallon bucket.

[northfarmer]

I wish i lived near some of you guys,i would give you guys some grains for free.

We seriously get so screwed at the farm gate price.

I follow all the farm stuff pretty closely,and i can tell you a huge jump in meat prices is coming down the pipe.

And for the guys like TnAndy,who seem to have everything,you could easily move in some grain bins and have them filled for far less than you might expect.

[Treasure Searcher]

I wish i lived near some of you guys,i would give you guys some grains for free.

We seriously get so screwed at the farm gate price.

I follow all the farm stuff pretty closely,and i can tell you a huge jump in meat prices is coming down the pipe.

And for the guys like TnAndy,who seem to have everything,you could easily move in some grain bins and have them filled for far less than you might expect.

Yes, meat prices are going up. I know some ranchers that cannot believe the price rise of cattle. Every calf born this spring is $$$.

[gb1980]

JIT logistics was developed in order to save storage cost of large inventories. I also worked in a WalMart Food Distribution Center as an assistant distibution center manager many years ago . It is correct to say that if there was nothing coming in from producers that it would only take a day or 2 to be OUT of everything. WalMart is like most other buinesses that rely on ordering only enough to get by on. WalMart has an automated shelf restock system that reorders for each and every store item when the shelf hits a certain number "cans of carrots" are purchased at any time. The bar code records that as things are bought. The distribution center gets an upload via satellite periodically (couldn't tell you how often now) as to what the inventory count is on items needed at each store. Then the distibution center loads trucks to send to the stores to replenish its low inventory. The objective is to never have an empty space on any shelf. BTW---it doesn't always work because some people grab a large amount all at once and the system doesn't plan for that since it is not that often that it happens. Maybe thats what happen to the "no carrots on the shelf". Maybe some other prepper beat him to all of the same Walmarts. Something to think about in all respects.

[Nickelless]

JIT logistics was developed in order to save storage cost of large inventories. I also worked in a WalMart Food Distribution Center as an assistant distibution center manager many years ago . It is correct to say that if there was nothing coming in from producers that it would only take a day or 2 to be OUT of everything. WalMart is like most other buinesses that rely on ordering only enough to get by on. WalMart has an automated shelf restock system that reorders for each and every store item when the shelf hits a certain number "cans of carrots" are purchased at any time. The bar code records that as things are bought. The distribution center gets an upload via satellite periodically (couldn't tell you how often now) as to what the inventory count is on items needed at each store. Then the distibution center loads trucks to send to the stores to replenish its low inventory. The objective is to never have an empty space on any shelf. BTW---it doesn't always work because some people grab a large amount all at once and the system doesn't plan for that since it is not that often that it happens. Maybe thats what happen to the "no carrots on the shelf". Maybe some other prepper beat him to all of the same Walmarts. Something to think about in all respects.

Thanks for the interesting insight, GB. I know that a lot of people dislike Walmart and other big-box stores, but in terms of product availability and logistics in getting products on the shelves, Walmart is a good indicator of how little inventory is actually on the shelves at any given time and how quickly the inventory can be depleted if there's a run on the place. If product availability is a problem at Walmart, then it's probably an even BIGGER problem at smaller stores--and most stores are smaller than Walmart. Yet another reason to stock up on items now while you can!

[Nickelless]

Don't forget about asking for "rain checks" on products not in stock. Albertsons had ragu alfredo sauce on sale for .99 during Thanksgiving week and it was sold out. I got a raincheck for 10 and picked them up tonight.

Three words: cash and carry. There will be no rain checks when TSHTF, so it's not a good idea to rely on them when stocking up on your preps.

I'd like to slightly modify my advice above from more than a year ago. I was just retrieving another package of coffee from the bunker (I have just north of a 5-year supply of coffee at the moment) and realized that much of my recent stocking up of coffee had been by way of rain checks. About every six weeks or so, CVS has my favorite coffee, Cafe Bustelo, on sale for $2.50 per package, so I typically go to all five CVS stores in town during said weeks and buy as much of their on-the-shelf inventory as possible and then get rain checks for more coffee. Five packages of coffee (just to throw out a figure) at each store plus rain checks for five more packages comes out to close to a year's worth of coffee for me once I redeem the rain checks. Having said that, I think it's a good idea to use rain checks whenever possible to take advantage of greatly reduced prices to get as many of various products as you can while they're still available at the discount price, but stock up as quickly as possible when they are marked down and don't just wait until products are marked down to stock up anyway. I set aside about 10 percent of my take-home pay each week to purchase more food for my bunker pantry and keep on stocking up no matter what.

The bottom line is to take advantage of rain checks whenever possible, but redeem them as soon as you can and don't rely on them being available on any given product.

[CiscoKid]

I do a great deal of my prepping at Restaurant Depot. You need a business license to get a membership but anyone can get a business license for a modest fee, whether you have a real business or not. You would not believe the great selection and quantities of food that restaurant supply houses carry. Brand name stuff too. Anyone need a 35 gallon barrel of MSG? 50 pound bags of rice? Jasmine rice? All that is in the Chinese aisle. Cases of #10 cans of imported tomatoes and cases of DeCecco pasta are in the Italian aisle. Literally anything a restaurant needs to prepare meals is in this store in great quantities at huge discounts. Big refrigerated section with meats and cheeses too. I've got more that 100 pounds of rice, same with flour, baking soda, baking powder, pasta, canned vegetables, spices, plastic wrap and foil. They sell plastic wrap in 2,000 foot quantities! Beans? Yeah, they've got beans. Now I have them too. See if there is a Restaurant Depot near you and prepare to be amazed.

[Nickelless]

Bump. It just occurred to me that it's been two years since I started this thread and the initial major shopping trip I took, and looking back on the past two years I'm glad I can say that I've nearly tripled the amount of my food storage since then.

How have you guys been doing in meeting or exceeding your food storage goals? Have you even set any??

[obilly]

same same more than tripled. you helped me motivate, with this thread,,,,,

[JFN111]

I don't have a massive amount stored but I didn't have anything until I started following this thread two years ago.

[northfarmer]

I'd like to see more actual cost comparisons if anyone has them.

[Dude]

So are all you guys buying, eating and rotating? Obviously, if you are accumulating, you have old food. I'll buy a huge bargain, but not off the shelf 39 cent green beans in a can. Ya, 6 years from now if you have them and I don't and we have SHTF, the date does not matter. Is that why you are doing this? I eat fresh. Have stored some dry goods and Mountain House, but nothing beyond 6 months supply for four adults.

[Nickelless]

I'd like to see more actual cost comparisons if anyone has them.

Walmart is IMO the best indicator of rising prices, as they try to maintain stable prices as long as possible. When prices at Wally World start to rise, you know they're rising elsewhere.

So are all you guys buying, eating and rotating? Obviously, if you are accumulating, you have old food. I'll buy a huge bargain, but not off the shelf 39 cent green beans in a can. Ya, 6 years from now if you have them and I don't and we have SHTF, the date does not matter. Is that why you are doing this? I eat fresh. Have stored some dry goods and Mountain House, but nothing beyond 6 months supply for four adults.

Yes, I am eating and rotating, despite the fact that I have far more than I can eat before the stamped expiration dates on various cans in my bunker, which means I have a growing stockpile of items slowly approaching the dates on those cans.

Eating fresh won't be possible once there are no affordable, fresh goods in the market post-SHTF. A major reason to stock up on a lot of food with a long shelf life is to get you through to the point at which you will again be able to get fresh food at affordable prices. There are plenty of articles out there detailing how the nutritional shelf life of most canned goods is years beyond the date stamped on the can. I have about 2000 cans of tomatoes and tomato products alone, not to mention other canned goods. I'll trust the research that shows safety and nutritional integrity of those foods remaining intact before I'll put myself at risk of starvation by not stocking up. Here's one link:

http://www.grandpappy.info/hshelff.htm

**snip**

"Among the canned food items retrieved from the Bertrand in 1968 were brandied peaches, oysters, plum tomatoes, honey, and mixed vegetables. In 1974, chemists at the National Food Processors Association (NFPA) analyzed the products for bacterial contamination and nutrient value. Although the food had lost its fresh smell and appearance, the NFPA chemists detected no microbial growth and determined that the foods were as safe to eat as they had been when canned more than 100 years earlier. The nutrient values varied depending upon the product and nutrient. NFPA chemists Janet Dudek and Edgar Elkins report that significant amounts of vitamins C and A were lost. But protein levels remained high, and all calcium values 'were comparable to today's products."

You can (and I intend to) get a lot of mileage out of more than half a ton of rice and beans, 2,000 cans of tomatoes, several dozen quarts of spices, a few hundred pounds of honey, several hundred pounds of oats and maybe a can or two of fruit and other items while waiting for relative normalcy to be restored, with the bunker stockpile continuing to grow weekly. And did I mention I have coffee?

[GOLDZILLA]

I keep one years food for me and family. The new stuff goes on the back shelf and gets pulled from the front. Once every 2 months, replace what was used. It takes care of itself.

[Dude]

Walmart is IMO the best indicator of rising prices, as they try to maintain stable prices as long as possible. When prices at Wally World start to rise, you know they're rising elsewhere.



Yes, I am eating and rotating, despite the fact that I have far more than I can eat before the stamped expiration dates on various cans in my bunker, which means I have a growing stockpile of items slowly approaching the dates on those cans.

Eating fresh won't be possible once there are no affordable, fresh goods in the market post-SHTF. A major reason to stock up on a lot of food with a long shelf life is to get you through to the point at which you will again be able to get fresh food at affordable prices. There are plenty of articles out there detailing how the nutritional shelf life of most canned goods is years beyond the date stamped on the can. I have about 2000 cans of tomatoes and tomato products alone, not to mention other canned goods. I'll trust the research that shows safety and nutritional integrity of those foods remaining intact before I'll put myself at risk of starvation by not stocking up. Here's one link:

http://www.grandpappy.info/hshelff.htm

**snip**



You can (and I intend to) get a lot of mileage out of more than half a ton of rice and beans, 2,000 cans of tomatoes, several dozen quarts of spices, a few hundred pounds of honey, several hundred pounds of oats and maybe a can or two of fruit and other items while waiting for relative normalcy to be restored, with the bunker stockpile continuing to grow weekly. And did I mention I have coffee?

The midwest had one of the worst droughts in decades and I didn't hear about mass starvation. I have not heard of any canneries shutting down because of lack of produce. I did hear that the free Thanksgiving bags in Chicago only had 2 apples, instead of a 5 lb. bag. They still got a turkey and more food than one person could carry. You think this shortage of food is coming under Obama's watch? Your food is now even older. Like I said, if food shortages occur to the point that there are millions of dead in the US, I'd take 4 year expired green beans. I'd have to see a lot worse conditions before I started accummulating food that I knew was going to fly way beyond the expiration date before being consumed, if ever. It's not there for me yet.

[JFN111]

So are all you guys buying, eating and rotating? Obviously, if you are accumulating, you have old food. I'll buy a huge bargain, but not off the shelf 39 cent green beans in a can. Ya, 6 years from now if you have them and I don't and we have SHTF, the date does not matter. Is that why you are doing this? I eat fresh. Have stored some dry goods and Mountain House, but nothing beyond 6 months supply for four adults.

I can only speak for myself but the canned goods are rotated and used on a regular basis. I buy when things are on sale so I have both preps and additional dry powder.
The items we use everyday, like coffee, I keep a 6 month supply and only restock during sales. I enjoy walking past an $11.99 can of Maxwell house coffee knowing I paid less then $7.00 bucks for mine.
I restock the canned vegies at between .25 and .33 per can.
I don't have years of preps, like some folks, but I don't have to do any panic buying when mother nature turns MN into a winter wonderland.

[Nickelless]

The midwest had one of the worst droughts in decades and I didn't hear about mass starvation. I have not heard of any canneries shutting down because of lack of produce. I did hear that the free Thanksgiving bags in Chicago only had 2 apples, instead of a 5 lb. bag. They still got a turkey and more food than one person could carry. You think this shortage of food is coming under Obama's watch? Your food is now even older. Like I said, if food shortages occur to the point that there are millions of dead in the US, I'd take 4 year expired green beans. I'd have to see a lot worse conditions before I started accummulating food that I knew was going to fly way beyond the expiration date before being consumed, if ever. It's not there for me yet.

That's dangerous thinking, my friend, for exactly the reasons that have been laid out in this thread.

This year's drought won't directly affect food prices until last season's crop surpluses are exhausted and this season's crops go to market, and when this season's go to market, the producers will have to make up their financial losses by charging what the products cost them to make regardless of crop yield. When "a lot worse conditions" arrive, you won't be the only one scrambling to stock up, and it's foolish to think you will be able to get what you want in the quantity you want it if everyone else is trying to buy up the limited supply as well.

I think you're making the mistake of confusing stamped expiration dates with shelf life, which are absolutely not the same thing. If you aren't willing to trust the word of experts about the safety of canned food...well, don't even think about where food comes from. Just saying.

Oh, and then there's the issue of personal safety--it's going to be MUCH worse than this when it comes to trying to get food:

[GOLDZILLA]

Even if there is plenty of food and TS never HTF, storing ahead makes sense because you are beating inflation.

That 12 dollar bag of rice you are eating at last years price is costing everyone else 17 dollars now.

[Dude]

It's the most severe drought that Texas has had in a single year ever. The state has dried out and it is burning up.


That was last year for us. No shortages and a moderate increase in prices.

I'm just not going to stretch years beyond expiration dates when I don't feel it's currently necessary.General guidelines I've read say 5 years after expiration date for canned goods are a safe limit.

That's dangerous thinking, my friend, for exactly the reasons that have been laid out in this thread.

This year's drought won't directly affect food prices until last season's crop surpluses are exhausted and this season's crops go to market, and when this season's go to market, the producers will have to make up their financial losses by charging what the products cost them to make regardless of crop yield. When "a lot worse conditions" arrive, you won't be the only one scrambling to stock up, and it's foolish to think you will be able to get what you want in the quantity you want it if everyone else is trying to buy up the limited supply as well.

I think you're making the mistake of confusing stamped expiration dates with shelf life, which are absolutely not the same thing. If you aren't willing to trust the word of experts about the safety of canned food...well, don't even think about where food comes from. Just saying.

[Dude]

I can only speak for myself but the canned goods are rotated and used on a regular basis. I buy when things are on sale so I have both preps and additional dry powder.
The items we use everyday, like coffee, I keep a 6 month supply and only restock during sales. I enjoy walking past an $11.99 can of Maxwell house coffee knowing I paid less then $7.00 bucks for mine.
I restock the canned vegies at between .25 and .33 per can.
I don't have years of preps, like some folks, but I don't have to do any panic buying when mother nature turns MN into a winter wonderland.

That's what we do also.

[Professur]

Saw something on 'doomsday preppers' last night ... separating a 50lbs bag of rice into old 2l soda bottles. anyone have any info on the effectiveness of this? I'm thinking a 2l bottle isn't the most reliable, seeing the way they flex when empty with just a 10C temp drop.

[Nickelless]

Saw something on 'doomsday preppers' last night ... separating a 50lbs bag of rice into old 2l soda bottles. anyone have any info on the effectiveness of this? I'm thinking a 2l bottle isn't the most reliable, seeing the way they flex when empty with just a 10C temp drop.

The only soft drinks I have in my bunker stash is about four cases of Mountain Dew, which I keep on hand whenever the urge for a Mountain Dew hits, which isn't too often, but I'd think the 2-liter bottles would be OK. The issue isn't the bottles' flexibility but whether the seal on them is airtight. Your best bet for storing rice and other items that you'll likely have large quantities of is mylar bags. Here's a thread that may help:

http://www.goldismoney2.com/showthre...656-Mylar-bags

[wiper]

nickelless, first of all thanks for the interesting thread.

next, you mentioned that your then-gf was going to go shopping with you, how did that go?

finally, congratulations (?) !!! how was the wedding?

[earplugs]

you should give up walmart. for all the crying about complaining about how this country is going down the toilet, a lot of people sure love to go to china mart....whatever. you should try dollar tree or any other dollar store.

[Ishkabibble]

Saw something on 'doomsday preppers' last night ... separating a 50lbs bag of rice into old 2l soda bottles. anyone have any info on the effectiveness of this? I'm thinking a 2l bottle isn't the most reliable, seeing the way they flex when empty with just a 10C temp drop.

I started storing food in 2l bottles back in the 90s. The integrity of the bottles is fine, but food stored in plastic does develop an off taste. I stored much of my rice in plastic and it's apparent when cooked. It took about 3 years for the rice to absorb enough flavor from the plastic that it's noticeable. It doesn't take much spice to cover the flavor, but I have to wonder if there's anything harmful coming across in the plastic.

Here's a shocker for you... the 18l containers for purified water leech plastic flavor much faster than pop bottles, and develop an off smell much sooner too. I thought they'd be better, but they're actually much worse.

These days I use glass jars and Tattler lids. We don't get quakes or hurricanes here, in fact we don't get storms at all. My only notable risk with glass is breakage during transport.

[Nickelless]

nickelless, first of all thanks for the interesting thread.

next, you mentioned that your then-gf was going to go shopping with you, how did that go?

finally, congratulations (?) !!! how was the wedding?

The wedding should be sometime next summer.

you should give up walmart. for all the crying about complaining about how this country is going down the toilet, a lot of people sure love to go to china mart....whatever. you should try dollar tree or any other dollar store.

I'll go wherever the best bargains are for the sake of my survival. If I find the lowest prices at Walmart, I'll go to Walmart. If the lowest prices are at Kroger (where I've bought probably most of my 2,000-ish cans of tomatoes), I'll go to Kroger. There's no place I've found that has 50-pound bags of rice for less than $20 besides Sam's Club. Walmart has the cheapest and widest selection of ammo. I don't have loyalties to a specific retailer--I have a loyalty to my family and will buy whatever I can find at the lowest price for their sake.