Numismatic Sleepers?

[jogslvr]

If we've garnered any insight into Numis coins, we know it pays big dividends to be ahead of the curve whenever possible. Are any of you looking for sleepers flying under the radar of most?

I'm considering one possible sleeper that may be worth collection and wanted to see what the you all think about the future prospects of these.

I'm talking about the various coins designed and minted by Daniel Carr. Some are being sold like limited edition artwork with signed and numbered COA's and are fetching a pretty good premium already. In particular, I'm looking at the Ameros in 999 silver, but also considering those struck in other metals.

When DC kicks the bucket, I expect these will be worth a lot, not in my lifetime, but certainly within that of my prodigy.

So, sleepers or not? Worth collecting or not? Any others?

[Another]

Does fill the 2009 proof hole, that said, you can always point to that coin and mention that it made the mint make 700,000 2010 proofs they really did not want to make.

Make you chuckle that the private mints like whistle blowers make the government do what they are supposed to do, and then they attack them like pit bulls (pun intended) in Chicago.

Chicago Commodities Markets.

[Irons]

Ten Commandments For Buying Gold & Silver :

I. Always take delivery

II. Never buy premium if you can avoid it.

III. Buy bullion for business, numismatics for fun.

IV. Buy silver first, then gold.

V. Buy small gold first, then large.

VI. Never buy exotic coins or modern rarities or anything you don't understand.

VII. Know your dealer.

VIII. What governments can't find, they can't steal.

IX. Never swap bullion coins for U.S. $20 gold pieces.

X. Never break the law.

[HistoryStudent]

Yeah I know but what do you do when you are bored looking at thousands and thousands of the SAME OLD stuff, HUH?

What's a NUMISMATIC?

[jogslvr]

Yeah I know but what do you do when you are bored looking at thousands and thousands of the SAME OLD stuff, HUH?

What's a NUMISMATIC?

That is sort'a my point, HS. I have about all the bullion I think I will need but I have a weakness for beautifully designed and struck coins. I picked up a Barbados $10 Poseidon coin the other day simply because it is beautiful. More and more these days, I find myself scouring the Bay for uniquely appealing coins vs the SOS bullion and trying not to pay over 1.5 spot.

[HistoryStudent]

That is sort'a my point, HS. I have about all the bullion I think I will need but I have a weakness for beautifully designed and struck coins. I picked up a Barbados $10 Poseidon coin the other day simply because it is beautiful. More and more these days, I find myself scouring the Bay for uniquely appealing coins vs the SOS bullion and trying not to pay over 1.5 spot.

The UNDERVALUED (perhaps IMVHO) is in the outside of the so-called NUMISMATIC coins. Better unslabbed and well thought out. Rather like the
goofbay thing that looks for DUMMY sellers who misspell words - this is LIKE looking for UNDERVALUED jewels of tomorrow.

Hint look into silver right now...

Your job if you accept this mission is to find coins that appear to be undervalued not in their bullion capacity but more in their low mintage and popularity for tomorrow. It's really fun, however.

Burn these instructions ASAP we would not want the UNWASHED to get their hands on this... talk to you later Tom Cruise...

[Dude]

Burn these instructions ASAP we would not want the UNWASHED to get their hands on this.

With all the soap around, how come there are so many unwashed; and do they really, typically do a lot of huddling?

[HistoryStudent]

Be careful you've been hanging out too long on the 5 ounce "Sock it to YA!" or "Slug it up yours" thread.

The MINT soapy with a free jar of VASELINE given out with every five coins - to make it feel better...


Remember

The MINT HAS had to beg, borrow, and steal enough silver to make those 700 K 2010 proofs, and also over the 33 million bullion SAE coins:

even SLV is disgorging their 1% of real physical against the other 99% phony paper stocks (like GLD = they are all run by fractional banksters right?)

to cover the shortage.


Follow the MONEY the ASIAN money and they are banking on physical gold and silver - they are.

Watch for the silver COMMERCIAL FAILURE (aka - CRIMEX default wherein the folks get a penny back on their paper silver dollar they they deserve = pun too)

The old coins from 1916 to 1990 are matured like three day old fish in the kitchen - old relatives after a week at Christmas.

The NEW stuff has promise. Think BIG!




Clean out your mind and use all the brainwaves - remember BIG stuff is better than small stuff if the sheeple can BUY it in the future at three times today - next year!

[Dude]

The old coins from 1916 to 1990 are matured like three day old fish in the kitchen - old relatives after a week at Christmas.

Then give them to me...
Are you saying everything silver that was minted, struck, poured from anywhere by anyone from those dates smells?
C'mon, there's a whole lot of swing in that range, and you know it.

[earplugs]

Someone else made a thread about burnished eagles. I think they're for the most part sleepers, although maybe the reverse 2008 one which seems to go at a pretty steep premium is beyond me atm.

[curmudgeonista]

Collector's coins require one very important thing... collectors! I'm not sure I'd count on a broad enough base in any private mint stuff to drive a lively market in them.

Case in point, I have a few very nice Gallery Mint pieces that, by virtue of the increase in Silver spot, are now worth... drum roll... roughly what I paid for them when they were issued about 10 years ago (but only if I find a buyer who knows the Silver content since it's not marked on them). Those were lauded as great collector's pieces by all the folks who were into what Gallery Mint was doing at the time.

[Dude]

Collector's coins require one very important thing... collectors! I'm not sure I'd count on a broad enough base in any private mint stuff to drive a lively market in them.

Case in point, I have a few very nice Gallery Mint pieces that, by virtue of the increase in Silver spot, are now worth... drum roll... roughly what I paid for them when they were issued about 10 years ago (but only if I find a buyer who knows the Silver content since it's not marked on them). Those were lauded as great collector's pieces by all the folks who were into what Gallery Mint was doing at the time.

Oh, yea, those should be bought with bullion price in mind, in most circumstances, and of course, when they mint them, they don't offer them that way.

[HistoryStudent]

Then give them to me...
Are you saying everything silver that was minted, struck, poured from anywhere by anyone from those dates smells?
C'mon, there's a whole lot of swing in that range, and you know it.

I have thousands of them the PRICE matured.

The modern stuff has more chance for appreciation.

IE buy a set of WALKING HALVES in MS66 compare that to a set of WALKING SAE in MS69...

Guess which one has a better appreciation chance...

I have both...

[HistoryStudent]

The total economy from right to left coast is a total obamination.

44 million on food stamps; 75% of households share with a less fortunate
family member per AARP; and most folks are total hand to mouth.

THIS is not too good for disposable incomes...

That said this happened before from 1856 to 1869; 1871 to 1875; 1890 to 1896; 1904 to 1910; 1918 to 1922; 1929 to 1941; 1960 to 1962; 1969 to 1978; 1979 to 1984; 1989 to 1993; 2000 to 2003; 2007 to NOW; just to name a few in the last 150 years.

We made it through then and minted a lot of modern coins to those PAST folks.

FIND YOURS now.

[Irons]

Collector's coins require one very important thing... collectors! I'm not sure I'd count on a broad enough base in any private mint stuff to drive a lively market in them.

Case in point, I have a few very nice Gallery Mint pieces that, by virtue of the increase in Silver spot, are now worth... drum roll... roughly what I paid for them when they were issued about 10 years ago (but only if I find a buyer who knows the Silver content since it's not marked on them). Those were lauded as great collector's pieces by all the folks who were into what Gallery Mint was doing at the time.

Once again the curmudgeon nailed it. Way more super hot collectors items are now worth only thier metal content than ever lived up to the hype and actually appreciated.

Buy numi stuff because you want it, but don't expect anybody else to think it's any more than just another pretty gold or silver coin.

[Dude]

I have thousands of them the PRICE matured.

The modern stuff has more chance for appreciation.

IE buy a set of WALKING HALVES in MS66 compare that to a set of WALKING SAE in MS69...

Guess which one has a better appreciation chance...

I have both...

Appreciate you telling people that...

[Dude]

Once again the curmudgeon nailed it. Way more super hot collectors items are now worth only thier metal content than ever lived up to the hype and actually appreciated.

Buy numi stuff because you want it, but don't expect anybody else to think it's any more than just another pretty gold or silver coin.

My dad bought that chit 30 years ago when I was 19 and told him to stop that crap - and curm and my dad did not buy what is considered numi.

[GOLDZILLA]

I like these

[GOLDZILLA]

and these too:

[chinmusic]

Curmudgeon nailed it. Someday you are going to want to/have to sell. Either to live or to buy more junk to "live". Like any trade it takes two parties. One does much better selling when there are many more potential, interested and motivated buyers.

There are coins within popular series that have huge upside potential and have been popular with collectors for a generation or two already.
Lincoln Cents-1909 S VDB, 14-D, 22 No D, 31-S and the 55 double die obv. These coins will always have an active market and be highly liquid. To my mind the 31-s is a sleeper that when bought with a discriminating eye you can do exceptionally well with.

Look at any popular series and you will find issues that may not be the key, but are better dates and may even be somewhat scarce, just not much heralded. Look at population figures and look for the large breaks or divergences. MS 63 is priced at 1200 but an MS 64 is priced at 4000. Now look at a boatload of these coins, develop an eye and look to buy only the best MS 63s you can find.



If this sounds like drudgery then numismatics may not be for you

[chinmusic]

I am a fan of these thingees

[321AU]

He has some beautiful designs and his limited stuff sells out quickly. I really like them and wish I had more. I would like to think that they will have more value than the melt price in the future but if gold goes to 5-10k then who knows. I think you may be on to something though.

I would even say that his designs are probably my favorite.

http://www.moonlightmint.com/coin_catalog.htm

If we've garnered any insight into Numis coins, we know it pays big dividends to be ahead of the curve whenever possible. Are any of you looking for sleepers flying under the radar of most?

I'm considering one possible sleeper that may be worth collection and wanted to see what the you all think about the future prospects of these.

I'm talking about the various coins designed and minted by Daniel Carr. Some are being sold like limited edition artwork with signed and numbered COA's and are fetching a pretty good premium already. In particular, I'm looking at the Ameros in 999 silver, but also considering those struck in other metals.

When DC kicks the bucket, I expect these will be worth a lot, not in my lifetime, but certainly within that of my prodigy.

So, sleepers or not? Worth collecting or not? Any others?

[OverOver]

Numismatic sleepers:

1931-D 1C in AU58

1937-D 50C in AU58


The classic commemoratives seem to always be sleepers so I'd stay away from them. Maybe a Lexington

[HistoryStudent]

I receive the ROSEN NUMISMATIC NEWS bulletin.

And from reading in between the LINES the MODERNS are taking over because of cost(s).

Read Jordan's "Modern commemorative Coins."


Don't let your MOMMY drown all the DUMB ones....

[bemac]

Morgans are IMHO pretty cheap considering their age, and the condition you can find them in. An affordable silver timepiece of 100+ year US history. I don't own any, but I've been tempted.

[Irons]

Morgans are IMHO pretty cheap considering their age, and the condition you can find them in. An affordable silver timepiece of 100+ year US history. I don't own any, but I've been tempted.

Last time I was in Colorado I bought a CC Morgan silver dollar in VF condition, they are 1/2 the price out there than they are here in MI. I had always wanted a circulated CC Morgan, if only old coins could talk..........

[Dude]

Morgans are IMHO pretty cheap considering their age, and the condition you can find them in. An affordable silver timepiece of 100+ year US history. I don't own any, but I've been tempted.

I "stole" so many Morgans a bit higher over spot 10-12 years ago when ebay was a baby. It was my rebirth into numismatics after ignoring the market for 20 years. Glad I stuck with silver during that phase instead of buffalo nickels or large cents. Sorry you weren't there.

[HistoryStudent]

Back in 2000 my coin store guy remarked, "how about these PCGS MS64 Morgans 1881 - S only $25.00 each?"

"How many?"

"I've got 2 blue boxes full - 40 - and they are 120 years old."

"Anything else?"

"Well, I've got a PCGS MS64 box full of 1923 Peace Dollars too."

"How much?"

"Say $20.00 each, okay?"

"Sold the whole three boxes."


Still have them NOW!

HS

[newmisty]

I figure this coin was a bit of a sleeper at one time. At least I bet it didn't have this high a premium attached to it. Slighly astonishing what people will forfeit for a little silver. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...T#ht_500wt_943


Anything with dragons, unicorn's and other cool creatures seem to be getting insane premiums at auction

[HistoryStudent]

Can someone explain to me the follow? Why not?

IX. Never swap bullion coins for U.S. $20 gold pieces.


Would it not be better to have some double eagles if the price of gold plummeted. Would the St. not hold it's value better? Only wondering b/c at this point graded st's are around 1480 at my local dealer.

thx

Because you have to pay premiums to the NUMI dealer for the coins. Bullion is just flat rate traded with the 3% or so mark-up = NOT 25% to 100% depending upon the scruples of the dealer like these guys:

"The main theme of the last 20 years is the title of the guy in government with the stealing rights. Whether Clinton, Rubin, Bush, Paulson, Franklin Raines, the Tunisian leader, or Mubarak in Egypt, or even the Saudi royals, it is clear that leaders have pilfered and stolen national riches beyond our imagination." ~ friend & colleague (prefers to remain anonymous)

10% numismatics maximum in the physical portfolio is a good benchmark.

That said note that recenly because of a few things SAINTS (Liberties too) are weak because of a FLOODING from Europe (read banks!) who needs to sell the good stuff
to obtain CASH FLOW because of the BAD economy. Same thing happened HERE in USA in 1930 where the bonds were rated AAA sold off to raise cash flow.

Plus read Jordan's book Modern Commemeorative Coins - from page 60 to 80 or so.


Frankly I like the numismatics as a different basket then sub-basketed into: silver, gold, platinum, mint pkg., slabs of all three, and many different sizes.

Be Prepared like a good little "EAGLE" BOY SCOUT - get it?

[Concours14]

Here's a sleeper for ya:

I think the Washington Mint stamped these out. No sleepers these. Just silver. Pretty though. They mean well! Bought em last week, spot plus a little. 30/ounce plus 10 bucks. Not so bad. Hey, a fella can always use an unusual golf ball marker on the greens, right? Commonly referred to as a "manhole cover".

[Oldmansmith]

Got one myself Concourse, I bought at spot when it was 13.

[AuNuggets]

If you want to find REAL, GENUINE "numismatic sleepers", do your homework. Look for individual key coins to series, types, etc. that are of relatively low mintage, low availability, i.e. RARITY and not (yet) on the radar screen of other collectors. These things do exist out there, but not in mass-market, mass-produced modern bullion or "collector" coins. When you find the kind of coins that I am talking about, real NUMISMATIC coins in every sense of the word, then profit potential is through the roof. There are places right now where a true cornering of the market could easily take place, a little promotion done, and prices driven into the stratosphere. You just have to stand back and look at the big picture with the ability of focusing on the individual pixels. The real treasures are there for the finding.

[GOLDZILLA]

Can someone explain to me the follow? Why not?

IX. Never swap bullion coins for U.S. $20 gold pieces.


Would it not be better to have some double eagles if the price of gold plummeted. Would the St. not hold it's value better? Only wondering b/c at this point graded st's are around 1480 at my local dealer.

thx

Tax implications, no doubt.

[rodzm]

Bought a Daniel Carr 1964 Peace Dollar (Matte Proof, only 132 made) for $195, sold it yesterday for $426 on the Bay....hows that for a decent return

[jogslvr]

Bought a Daniel Carr 1964 Peace Dollar (Matte Proof, only 132 made) for $195, sold it yesterday for $426 on the Bay....hows that for a decent return

That is very good to hear. Awhile back I bought one of his 1 oz 2010 silver trade dollars with the indian chief head. Paid waaaay over spot but only 37 minted at the time with a cap limit of 75. And with by ebay bucks was able to buy a 1/10th gold indian struck by him and had some change left over. Mintage on the 2010 gold 1/10th is around 350 I think. His website, Moonight Mint, has all the mintage figures. I'm hoping one of my grandkids can cash in big time on these in about 20 years or more.

[HistoryStudent]

That is very good to hear. Awhile back I bought one of his 1 oz 2010 silver trade dollars with the indian chief head. Paid waaaay over spot but only 37 minted at the time with a cap limit of 75. And with by ebay bucks was able to buy a 1/10th gold indian struck by him and had some change left over. Mintage on the 2010 gold 1/10th is around 350 I think. His website, Moonight Mint, has all the mintage figures. I'm hoping one of my grandkids can cash in big time on these in about 20 years or more.

You and old RODZM finnally got me off the fence and I bought a 2009 ASE DC mintmark privavtely slabbed for the proof collection of ASE. More as a novelty. Good to see you post.

HS

Those 1964 thingies are going for $550.00 now.

[JEKYLL-7]

The US is a tough market to find sleepers, simply because there is such a large and savvy collector base. That said, undiscovered or under-appreciated varieties can do very well for you. On the Canadian side of things, I've seen many coins go from a value in the hundreds to a value in the thousands in the last decade or so. Another thing to look out for is coins that seem priced within reason, but almost never come up for sale. When one of these comes up for sale at a well known auction, it can change the accepted value quite quickly. One last thing is: coins with outstanding eye appeal, particularly beautiful toning. I've seen a sub-$100 coin go for nearly $800 because it had simply outstanding rainbow hues. It happens all the time.

As a general rule, you want business strike coins (not collector coins from sets).