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Thread: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

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    Default OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    This one is right form my Sheeple /anti gun discussion board. Over there we are viewed as Bruce Willis wannabes. We have all watched Red Dawn too much. [guilty of that one]

    In other words guns are a fantasy to us. None of us would have the wits about us to actually use on if attacked. None of us actually know someone who was saved by using one... Its all fantasy stuff..

    So tell me your stories. Has anyone here actually used your weapon for self defense.? I do include animal attacks in that. Has anyone frozen and not used on? Do you know anyone personally who has used on in self defense.
    Not newspapaer stories but real life stories..

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    I don't have all of my firearms for self defense. Most are for hunting, they help put food on the table for my family. Healthy food that is not full of hormones . The gun is just a tool that I happen to like.

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    My sister bought a house in tyler texas in 1994 the house needed alot of work so we packed up the tools and went to help her out. There was a shop about 50 feet from the house that was full of junk,we decided to clean it out and use it for storing my tools. while cleaning I found a old sears 410 single shot shotgun and told my sister this might come in handy one day and to go get a box of shells for it. While working on the house we notice two men that would walk pass every day at the same time and check out what was going on. on the 10th day of work I decided to give that old shotgun a good cleaning and check the fireing pin by cutting the shot off a shell and fireing a blank,well before cutting the shell I put in a live round and when I noticed the two was at the doorway with a small pistol telling me to leave and without realizing I shot towards them it all happend so fast I did'nt know if I hit them or not.They were gone with no traces of blood but the shells I had were bird shot. I figured that the cops would show up soon but none did. The rest of our stay was uneventful and to this day my sister has never been robbed. knock on wood!

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    I have used a firearm for personal defense three times. Twice for myself, once for my father. I have never fired a firearm at another human being.

    Situation one, I was young, probably 13-14ish. We had a pasture at the end of a dead end road, and a lot of drug deals took place there. We ran off a bunch of wetbacks who were trespassing on our property when we arrived. Thing is, they walked the wrong way to leave, so we knew they weren't really leaving. As we left after dark, we saw a truck drive up. Long story short, we ended up behind the guys, trapping their vehicle. My dad told me to stay in the truck as he confronted them. There were 3 Guatemalen drug runners. The leader/driver tried to jump my dad, who butt stroked him with his rifle. I stepped out of the truck and covered the other two with my hunting rifle. This was well before cell phones, and we were in the middle of nowhere, so we got their names and license plates and left. The Sherrif rounded them up, and we got a nasty call from the DEA, as they had been investigating them for months and evidently we ruined thier investigation. My dad told them that if they were doing their job, we would have never seen them. Long story short, 1 man and one young teen wouldn't have been much of a match for three men if we hadn't been armed.

    Situation two: In college, we had a cool house, but it had been robbed twice before we moved in (friends lived there before us). One night my roomate B and I were watching TV in the front of the house, when we heard noise coming from roomate A's room, the back bedroom. I grabbed my 870, roomate B opened the door, and I burst in, safety off with my finger on the trigger, sticking the muzzle directly in the face of roomate A's girlfriend, who had broken in the back window. I cursed her like a dog, I don't know that my heart has ever pounded that hard, and I still don't think she understands how close she came to dying.

    Situation three: Early 2000s, we were crossing a large herd of cattle over a bridge on a Farm to Market road. We had two Sheriff's deputies with us as there's always some moron who wants to fight/drive through the cattle/etc. Both moron cops end up on the same side of the bridge, and just as we're getting the cattle to start on the bridge (a Hurculean feat in itself), some (insert slur here) comes around my truck and trailer, and literally hits my mom with the car (at slow speed, but still). My dad trips, steps in front of the car and bashes out his windshield. Dude gets out with a pistol in a locked case. As I saw this go down, I rode to my truck, retrieved my rifle, and came up behind the guy as he was fumbling with the lock. I was 20 yards behind him, locked down on the back of his head, safety off, finger on trigger. I realized that he was having trouble with the lock, and that if he managed to get it open, I was going to have to kill him. I yelled at him, and when he turned and saw that he was had, he threw the pistol/case into the back seat. Now by this time the cattle and cowboys had scattered, so he jumped into his car and drove off over the bridge. I loped up there and made sure he left, put up my rifle, and we finallly got the cattle across the bridge. I'm pretty sure dude would've at least tried to shoot my dad if I hadn't been there, armed.

    End of the day, most people ARE living in fantasy land RE firearms. I spent enough time with my grandfather (WWII vet) to know I don't want that on my conscience. I'm VERY glad that I have used a firearm to protect myself/others, but I haven't had to discharge a firearm in the process.
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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    A few years ago, the church shooting in Colorado Springs. International Prayer something or other I believe. Gunmen was stopped by armed churchgoers.

    Linky:
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316322,00.html

    Later, at New Life Church, a gunman wearing a trench coat and carrying a high-powered rifle opened fire in the parking lot and later walked into the church as a service was letting out. Jeanne Assam, a church member who volunteers as a security guard, shot Murray, who was found with a rifle and two handguns, police said.

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    Me,no.However,why don't those folk's check the articles in the American Rifleman,"The armed citizen".The events are actual and documented.
    Slow is smooth.....smooth is fast...

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you


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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    I know that Mrs Hendrickson of Silvertowne fame took out some baddies back in the late 70s. Being as Winchester was where I grew up, it is part of the town lore.
    To all the alphabet soup guys and gals out there reading this post, HI!!!!

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    Guess all us military guys made it out alive by sharing our cookies and singing kumbaya...
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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    1980's was attacked in L.A. as I opened my front door. Gun was right inside. Grabbed it and they ran off. Another second and it would have been booom!

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    Quote Originally Posted by Avalon View Post
    This one is right form my Sheeple /anti gun discussion board. Over there we are viewed as Bruce Willis wannabes. We have all watched Red Dawn too much. [guilty of that one]

    In other words guns are a fantasy to us. None of us would have the wits about us to actually use on if attacked. None of us actually know someone who was saved by using one... Its all fantasy stuff..

    So tell me your stories. Has anyone here actually used your weapon for self defense.? I do include animal attacks in that. Has anyone frozen and not used on? Do you know anyone personally who has used on in self defense.
    Not newspapaer stories but real life stories..
    I have come to the point where I believe that guns are only OK if the culture is right. I can see where gun ownership came from in the US and why it was a good thing for a long time. Now I would question it, the thought of some of the morons in my neighborhood owning guns terrifies me. I know that the argument is that the bad guys have them... but the argument that the less guns are around the less they are needed also applies --> bad guys here don't need them as much, they only tend to get pulled on other bad guys, mainly because sentencing goes through the roof if a gun is involved, they mitigate the risk by using a lesser weaponed.
    Technical Analysis is a part of a market doctrine that accepts a high level of failure and incorporates loss prevention and risk control strategies to deal with that reality. If you do not understand what those strategies are, how to implement them and the probability of success involved in any given technical analysis setup THEN you should not treat the information given as any basis for decision making.

    Caveat Emptor.

    Cheers
    Z

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    Quote Originally Posted by Zed View Post
    I have come to the point where I believe that guns are only OK if the culture is right. I can see where gun ownership came from in the US and why it was a good thing for a long time. Now I would question it, the thought of some of the morons in my neighborhood owning guns terrifies me. I know that the argument is that the bad guys have them... but the argument that the less guns are around the less they are needed also applies --> bad guys here don't need them as much, they only tend to get pulled on other bad guys, mainly because sentencing goes through the roof if a gun is involved, they mitigate the risk by using a lesser weaponed.
    Zed, I think all opinions are valid.. I know a lot of gun people because of my association with the Range. I suspect I know an above average amount of responsible and trained gun handlers because they are on the range on a regular basis. They don't scare me...

    Flip side, I live in a county that allows Hunters to run dogs. Until a few years ago they not only run dogs but frequently spotlighted at night. To make matters worse they used other peoples property to run their dogs and spotlight and beer was usually involved. Those people scared the hell out of me...

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    Quote Originally Posted by Zed View Post
    I have come to the point where I believe that guns are only OK if the culture is right. I can see where gun ownership came from in the US and why it was a good thing for a long time. Now I would question it, the thought of some of the morons in my neighborhood owning guns terrifies me. I know that the argument is that the bad guys have them... but the argument that the less guns are around the less they are needed also applies --> bad guys here don't need them as much, they only tend to get pulled on other bad guys, mainly because sentencing goes through the roof if a gun is involved, they mitigate the risk by using a lesser weaponed.
    Zed,

    You might want to revisit what happened in Iran last year..election protest's.

    Citizens on the street with no more then rocks to throw.

    Being mowed down by the local thugs (police)

    When i saw that, it made up my mind.

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    Zed,

    You might want to revisit what happened in Iran last year..election protest's.

    Citizens on the street with no more then rocks to throw.

    Being mowed down by the local thugs (police)

    When i saw that, it made up my mind.
    I don't live in Iran... neither do you. If your law enforcement is that untrustworthy then you have much bigger issues than gun ownership to deal with first.

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    Technical Analysis is a part of a market doctrine that accepts a high level of failure and incorporates loss prevention and risk control strategies to deal with that reality. If you do not understand what those strategies are, how to implement them and the probability of success involved in any given technical analysis setup THEN you should not treat the information given as any basis for decision making.

    Caveat Emptor.

    Cheers
    Z

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    Quote Originally Posted by Zed View Post
    I have come to the point where I believe that guns are only OK if the culture is right. I can see where gun ownership came from in the US and why it was a good thing for a long time. Now I would question it, the thought of some of the morons in my neighborhood owning guns terrifies me. I know that the argument is that the bad guys have them... but the argument that the less guns are around the less they are needed also applies --> bad guys here don't need them as much, they only tend to get pulled on other bad guys, mainly because sentencing goes through the roof if a gun is involved, they mitigate the risk by using a lesser weaponed.
    Hello Zed !,
    I hear ya on this one, especially the part I highlighted.
    I am torn between the have and have not though and I will tell ya why
    Here in the states there are more guns than people doing the straightn numbers.
    The wacko acting folks in my neighborhood, not to mention just about everywhere DO have firearms.
    Have you ever seen that hurricane photo " Drunks with guns, you loot we shoot".
    I will go and find it and I will post it here.
    It is not just the thought of government oppression or maybe even on the outside a foreign invasion that motivates me to have a few AND have a permit as well as training,
    but the thought of just the types of folks you are talking about, not to mention those intent on doing harm to others as a way of life makes me feel more comfortable about have a few around and knowing how to use them.
    More to say but the rock factory is calling. HAH
    Regards Ned,
    Haystackneedle

    Edit to add: I was mistaken in that it was entitled " Drunks with guns", and I changed my post. I remember it being posted on GIM1.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Drunks with guns.jpg  
    Last edited by Hystckndle; 01-14-2011 at 08:04 AM.

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    I would say if you don't have guns, no other situations can be dealt with in that situation

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    This is why I said it is cultural... where I live virtually no one, idiots included, has a gun. You pull a gun around here and you can say bye bye to life on the outside ---> it is different when there are very few guns around.
    Technical Analysis is a part of a market doctrine that accepts a high level of failure and incorporates loss prevention and risk control strategies to deal with that reality. If you do not understand what those strategies are, how to implement them and the probability of success involved in any given technical analysis setup THEN you should not treat the information given as any basis for decision making.

    Caveat Emptor.

    Cheers
    Z

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    Thankfully, I've never had to use a firearm in anger or to defend myself.

    I do practice, train, and prepare.

    Is it a fantasy, me being able to actually bring a firearm to bear in an emergency? No one can say until it happens.

    One thing for certain, I'm not going to forego being armed because someone else has the opinion that I won't be able to perform. I'm not going to go down or watch someone I love go down without the means to at least try to defend them.

    As for the "idiots with guns" argument, it doesn't wash with me. Waaaaay more people are killed by automobiles and alcohol, or the combination thereof, in the hands of "idiots" but nobody proposes we ban them!

    Some people drive drunk. Does that mean I shouldn't have an automobile?
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    You need to come to a country that has gun control to understand... armed robbery is headline news here. You are a product of your environment... FWIW in the US I'd own a gun, down here, no way....more potential trouble than it could ever solve.
    Technical Analysis is a part of a market doctrine that accepts a high level of failure and incorporates loss prevention and risk control strategies to deal with that reality. If you do not understand what those strategies are, how to implement them and the probability of success involved in any given technical analysis setup THEN you should not treat the information given as any basis for decision making.

    Caveat Emptor.

    Cheers
    Z

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    Quote Originally Posted by Zed View Post
    This is why I said it is cultural... where I live virtually no one, idiots included, has a gun. You pull a gun around here and you can say bye bye to life on the outside ---> it is different when there are very few guns around.
    You make a good point, it is cultural! We in the US love OUR guns it IS part of our culture! I was brought up to hunt and defend my home and family just like it was when this country was born and sorry it won't change anytime soon. I live about 20 miles from our large city pop 400 and nearest neighbor is about 3 miles away and I woul'nt live anywhere else and I woulnt live here with out my weapons!

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    For any gummint agencies monitoring posts in this thread, I have to inform you I have never used a firearm other than at a range, and even more important, all my firearms were lost at the bottom of a large lake in a boating accident. . . .

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    Quote Originally Posted by Zed View Post
    You need to come to a country that has gun control to understand... armed robbery is headline news here. You are a product of your environment... FWIW in the US I'd own a gun, down here, no way....more potential trouble than it could ever solve.
    I've lived in at least five countries with strict gun control, both in Europe and in Asia. Yes, "armed robbery" is headline news but that doesn't mean the place is less violent. If you look, you can see the difference.

    Ordinary people are always on the losing end when they encounter an armed criminal. Sometimes those armed "criminals" are the police themselves, emboldened by the knowledge the public has little means to defend themselves. The criminals also know they can walk into any home or business, wave a real or fake gun and get anything they want.

    Even the police don't bother to train much in close quarters combat because they know that the vaaaaaast majority of the people they encounter won't be armed with anything more than a knife or a club. We all know what happens when you bring a knife or a club to a gun fight.... So when they do encounter a criminal armed with a firearm, they get their clocks cleaned, after which they hollar for MORE GUN CONTROL.

    In a place where it is strictly illegal to arm yourself, I agree. An armed ordinary citizen will literally alone and no matter how many weapons you have or how much ammo, the government will always have more.

    But in a place were it is allowed, I will always choose to arm myself when the circumstances allow.

    I don't care how "peaceful" people think their veneer of a sterilized society is....
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

    Theodore Roosevelt

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    Quote Originally Posted by skyvike View Post
    ........As for the "idiots with guns" argument, it doesn't wash with me. Waaaaay more people are killed by automobiles and alcohol, or the combination thereof, in the hands of "idiots" but nobody proposes we ban them!

    Some people drive drunk. Does that mean I shouldn't have an automobile?
    I drive every day, all day long, as part of my job. You would not believe the incredible stupidity I see on the road every day. People who have no business being behind the wheel of an automobile are issued licences to drive by their state BMV's and go out and do so, on a regular basis. They leave what little common sense they possess behind, at home and go out to endanger the lives of everyone that shares the road with them. I won't bore you with particular stories, as they're way too numerous to mention and you all probably have stories of your own to tell. But, I can say that my life and the lives of others is put on the line, at all times, by idiot drivers. As Skyvike says, no one seems to be calling for the bannishment of automobiles, except maybe the tree huggers.

    As far as firearms are concerned, I'll say this. If weapons are banned, the only people who will be unarmed are you and me and every other law abiding citizen in the land. The military will still have guns, as will the police, politicians, bankers, lawyers and celebrities, in the form of BG's (bodyguards), if not their own guns. Gang-bangers and common street thugs will have them, guaranteed! All that will happen is that you would make sheep of all the law abiding peaceable people out there. We would all become sheep in a land full of wolves. And the wolves, human nature being what it is, would be the politicians, police, bankers, lawyers and thugs, mentioned before. The politicians and bankers take what they want, as it is. Think how things would be, if we were completely defenseless.

    The problem in our society with violence is a problem of the heart of man. And the heart of man is too often wicked and violent. The framers of the US Constitution knew that and put the 2nd Amendment in the Constitution, to compensate for it. I think the land of peace that so many anti-gun people want is a mere delusion. A kind of wishful fantasy of hope for less brutality and bloodshed, which is certainly desirable, but completely unattainable, as long as men are corrupt and/or so easily corruptible.

    I will not willingly let anyone disarm me in this life, to become a defenseless lamb among the wolves, unable to defend myself, or people I care about. I used to think like the anti-gunners, at one time. But, I finally realised that my main fear of guns was the awesome responsibility that came with the decision to potentially have to use one for defense, some day. I hoped, subconsciously at least, that banning guns would keep me from having to have that responsibility. When I realised that, I changed my mind on the whole subject. I think that this might be the case for more people out there than actually realise it.

    There's an article posted in Business and Finance right now, by Phideaux, I believe, about how our society is becoming more and more like a feudal society. The lords and kings, though are politicians and bankers, with them controlling lawyers and accountants and the police and militaries to keep the serfs and peasants under control. Do you actually think those people care about us? Do you think they would protect us? I surely don't. Their main goal is to steal as much of what's yours for themselves and get away with it. Your life and well-being are completely meaningless to them and you had better make sure you retain the few rights and means to security you still have left. Fight for them! Or they will all be taken away from you. You lose your right to self defense and every other right you cherish will cease to exist.
    "Certainty of death. Small chance of success. What are we waiting for?" -Gimli
    "Collectivism and freedom are mortal enemies. Only one will survive." -G. Edward Griffin

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    Quote Originally Posted by skyvike View Post
    I've lived in at least five countries with strict gun control, both in Europe and in Asia. Yes, "armed robbery" is headline news but that doesn't mean the place is less violent
    You are doing well... I have lived in two countries and I am a citizen of both. I have traveled to many more and some for extended periods but I don't count it as having lived there unless I had spent around five years there and could speak the language fluently. I have lived here on and off for forty years and I still don't completely understand the culture like a native. My point is staying in France for a year is not going to make you French or allow you to really understand the cultural feeling toward these things. So maybe when I said lived my choice of words was poor... but I don't know what other word to use, maybe 'adsorbed the culture of'.

    That said I don't think I can make you understand you the differences in attitude that the wider Australian populations has toward the things you outline... I hope the difference stay that way, the violence in your popular culture disturbs me deeply.

    So yeah I don't think you are ever going to understand what I am on about...

    I will offer this cultural comparison by way of a limited illustration, maybe you can correct it if it is not fair.

    After Katrina the news we saw down here involved looting, armed vigilante type action and heavy handed police and armed forces using their weapons.

    This AM, in the aftermath of the Brisbane floods I switch on the TV and you see a literal army of volunteers cleaning up like you would not believe. The volunteer centers have had more people coming forward than they can handle, they are like ants in the aerial footage, mounds of after flood 'stuff' is disappearing in record time. It is truly amazing to watch Brisbane dig itself out of the mud and get on with it. So far I have seen one report of one lot of looters apprehended and they where raiding boats that had torn moorings and where drifting into the ocean. No doubt there is more than that but still not one report of a gun being pulled in a post flood incident... LOL... We even have footage of our last Prime Minister wading into Uni students digs to rescue their gear because they where away... not set up... a camera crew tripped over him by accident, he later damage himself helping other neighbors and wound up in hospital.

    All I can say is it is different down here... and I hope it stays that way. I personally will do all I can to keep anything that promotes or supports violence out of this society.
    Technical Analysis is a part of a market doctrine that accepts a high level of failure and incorporates loss prevention and risk control strategies to deal with that reality. If you do not understand what those strategies are, how to implement them and the probability of success involved in any given technical analysis setup THEN you should not treat the information given as any basis for decision making.

    Caveat Emptor.

    Cheers
    Z

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    Quote Originally Posted by Son of Gloin View Post

    The problem in our society with violence is a problem of the heart of man. And the heart of man is too often wicked and violent.
    If our own media (entertainment industry inclusive) quit selling fear, it would go a long way in calming a paranoid nation.
    In vexillum of angelus quod liberi ... nos vadum reperio fidelis

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    FWIW, Katrina hit a welfare ravaged state in a welfare ravaged country. Brisbane appears to be a fairly well to do community. I'll wager that the populace counts upon themselves for the most part. Too many Americans have no idea what is required to provide for themselves. Politicians are able to extract enough from producers to provide "beans 4 votes". Say a prayer for us.

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    Quote Originally Posted by Gcubed View Post
    FWIW, Katrina hit a welfare ravaged state in a welfare ravaged country. Brisbane appears to be a fairly well to do community. I'll wager that the populace counts upon themselves for the most part. Too many Americans have no idea what is required to provide for themselves. Politicians are able to extract enough from producers to provide "beans 4 votes". Say a prayer for us.
    Brisbane is lower socio economic on the whole, Sydney and Melbourne is where the money is... it is not a poor city (we don't really have 'poor' cities) on the averages but it is not 'well to do'. What is more is is the wealthier suburbs near the river that have been hit hard, ironically the less well to do are in there often helping people that are financially better off, not always the case but in the case of some areas. Come back in twenty years and it will have changed, by then Brisbane will be the top eastern city as apposed to the bottom... but not now.
    Technical Analysis is a part of a market doctrine that accepts a high level of failure and incorporates loss prevention and risk control strategies to deal with that reality. If you do not understand what those strategies are, how to implement them and the probability of success involved in any given technical analysis setup THEN you should not treat the information given as any basis for decision making.

    Caveat Emptor.

    Cheers
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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    I rather visit Brisbane than New Orleans. I'd want to be "packin'" in Louisiana.

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    Quote Originally Posted by Gcubed View Post
    I rather visit Brisbane than New Orleans. I'd want to be "packin'" in Louisiana.
    So would I... that is my point, it is a cultural thing and as such very difficult to change!

    Hell you lot ain't even gone metric yet
    Technical Analysis is a part of a market doctrine that accepts a high level of failure and incorporates loss prevention and risk control strategies to deal with that reality. If you do not understand what those strategies are, how to implement them and the probability of success involved in any given technical analysis setup THEN you should not treat the information given as any basis for decision making.

    Caveat Emptor.

    Cheers
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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    Quote Originally Posted by Zed View Post
    So would I... that is my point, it is a cultural thing and as such very difficult to change!

    Hell you lot ain't even gone metric yet
    What da hell have I been sayin'? Roo Chasers!!!

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    Quote Originally Posted by Zed View Post
    I don't live in Iran... neither do you. If your law enforcement is that untrustworthy then you have much bigger issues than gun ownership to deal with first.

    2c

    WHEN SECONDS COUNT, THE POLICE ARE ONLY MINUTES AWAY.

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    Quote Originally Posted by southfork View Post
    WHEN SECONDS COUNT, THE POLICE ARE ONLY MINUTES AWAY.
    So what... pull a gun in this country and shoot someone and you might as well have been killed.... you are going to be doing life. As a consequence the circumstances in which a gun will save me in the time help takes to get to me are so, so, so rare that the risk of owning a gun is not warranted. Most gun crime in this country is crooks shooting crooks... that happens because crooks know other crooks are armed. The crooks don't use guns against civilians because they know that the citizens don't have guns and that should they get caught and a gun is involve it will double or triple their sentence. Net result is we are not that paranoid about it! Gun ownership fosters gun ownership... our system punishes it where ever it can... even the crook can work the risk reward on that. The only real issue we have is when it is domestic and all rationality goes out the window... but then a carving knife is just as deadly and he/she knows that the gun is in the night stand anyway so how that helps I don't know!

    "WHEN SECONDS COUNT, THE POLICE ARE ONLY MINUTES AWAY." is just a simplistic slogan addressing a complex question, you can't dumb it down like that, it is dangerous.
    Technical Analysis is a part of a market doctrine that accepts a high level of failure and incorporates loss prevention and risk control strategies to deal with that reality. If you do not understand what those strategies are, how to implement them and the probability of success involved in any given technical analysis setup THEN you should not treat the information given as any basis for decision making.

    Caveat Emptor.

    Cheers
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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    Quote Originally Posted by Avalon View Post
    This one is right form my Sheeple /anti gun discussion board. Over there we are viewed as Bruce Willis wannabes. We have all watched Red Dawn too much.
    My only question/comment is, what are you doing over there???

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    Quote Originally Posted by smullen View Post
    My only question/comment is, what are you doing over there???
    Probably contaminating the forum with common sense.
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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    Quote Originally Posted by minimus View Post
    Probably contaminating the forum with common sense.
    LOL... Yea, Probably so...

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    Zed, I completely understand your POV and it really is different to the core....the Aussies notions can't be changed overnight and neither can the "american mentality" be.

    The areas you speak of sound like a great environment relative to the many that are being discussed here in the states.
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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    My observation of Vietnam was that gun control didn't work in a society where the common man did not have the tools to defend his home and family against usurpers h#!! bent on making subjects out of citizens. Just my unbiased humble opinion.
    "You have to prepare to die to really understand how to live".

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    Quote Originally Posted by newmisty View Post
    The areas you speak of sound like a great environment relative to the many that are being discussed here in the states.
    True, I wouldn't for a moment suggest that what works here would work in the US and I do understand why most of the people I know in the US have a gun.
    Technical Analysis is a part of a market doctrine that accepts a high level of failure and incorporates loss prevention and risk control strategies to deal with that reality. If you do not understand what those strategies are, how to implement them and the probability of success involved in any given technical analysis setup THEN you should not treat the information given as any basis for decision making.

    Caveat Emptor.

    Cheers
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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    Quote Originally Posted by Zed View Post
    You need to come to a country that has gun control to understand... armed robbery is headline news here. You are a product of your environment...
    The picture below was taken from GB, another "gun control country". Their crime rate has actually gotten worse since disarmament and is higher than even the US. This is why they can't even purchase butter knives without papers.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...frica-U-S.html

    I have needed and used a gun for self defense on multiple occasions. I posted them on GIM1. I don't really feel like going through all of them again. I will say that I agree to a point with Zed in that not everyone should own a gun...just like not everyone should drive a car or be allowed to procreate... but the tricky question is who gets to decide?

    I don't mind people who don't want to own a gun but I have no tolerance for people who try to tell me that I shouldn't own a gun. Bx3
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 3084176591_1989e1f8dd_b.jpg  

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    A bit off topic, but that picture reminds me of the George Carlin skit talking about what can and can't be brought onboard an airplane.

    He lists the objects legal(at the time) to bring on board and then says, "once you get on they actually give you a fork and knife!" Then goes on to say, what about the "Sunday New York times?" "You could beat a man to death with the Sunday New York Times if you wanted to?"

    Might as well make newspapers illegal too.
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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    Airplane security is just nuts...
    Technical Analysis is a part of a market doctrine that accepts a high level of failure and incorporates loss prevention and risk control strategies to deal with that reality. If you do not understand what those strategies are, how to implement them and the probability of success involved in any given technical analysis setup THEN you should not treat the information given as any basis for decision making.

    Caveat Emptor.

    Cheers
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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantokir View Post
    Guess all us military guys made it out alive by sharing our cookies and singing kumbaya...
    Absolutely no disrespect meant to you or anyone who served, but I would recommend keeping glib comments like this out of the discussion. Guns in the military are entirely different than personal ownership, and my worry is that linking the two emboldens gun control advocates.

    After all, the main argument that's used to discredit the 2nd amendment (fallacious in my opinion) is that the "a well-regulated militia" clause only applies to people in the military and national guard.

    It needs to be understood that we're talking about a personal right to own and carry, and kept completely separate from military service.

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    Quote Originally Posted by Zed View Post
    So what... pull a gun in this country and shoot someone and you might as well have been killed.... you are going to be doing life. As a consequence the circumstances in which a gun will save me in the time help takes to get to me are so, so, so rare that the risk of owning a gun is not warranted. Most gun crime in this country is crooks shooting crooks... that happens because crooks know other crooks are armed. The crooks don't use guns against civilians because they know that the citizens don't have guns and that should they get caught and a gun is involve it will double or triple their sentence. Net result is we are not that paranoid about it! Gun ownership fosters gun ownership... our system punishes it where ever it can... even the crook can work the risk reward on that. The only real issue we have is when it is domestic and all rationality goes out the window... but then a carving knife is just as deadly and he/she knows that the gun is in the night stand anyway so how that helps I don't know!
    I may be entirely wrong here as I've never spent a lot of time considering doing criminal activities.

    But I would suggest that the only thing that has a deterrent effect on the criminal mind is the likelihood of getting caught, and not the severity of the punishment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zed
    "WHEN SECONDS COUNT, THE POLICE ARE ONLY MINUTES AWAY." is just a simplistic slogan addressing a complex question, you can't dumb it down like that, it is dangerous.
    I think in general this statement describes a pretty simple situation, and it's about resistance to criminal activity and not detterence. If you're being victimized by a criminal, then your options are to defend yourself or wait for help. Nobody has a more vested interest in stopping crime aimed at you, than you do.

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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    Quote Originally Posted by Defenestrator View Post
    Absolutely no disrespect meant to you or anyone who served, but I would recommend keeping glib comments like this out of the discussion. Guns in the military are entirely different than personal ownership, and my worry is that linking the two emboldens gun control advocates.

    After all, the main argument that's used to discredit the 2nd amendment (fallacious in my opinion) is that the "a well-regulated militia" clause only applies to people in the military and national guard.

    It needs to be understood that we're talking about a personal right to own and carry, and kept completely separate from military service.
    None taken, but we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. The way I see it is that it boils down to making it out of the situation alive. Whether you volunteer to put yourself there, or someone kicks in your door.

    The military could be used as an example anyhow. If fights against a gun could be won reliably without them. Then I think the military would be using that knowledge quite a bit. As it sits, we take guns with us.
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    Default Re: OK gun owners ..here is a question for you

    Quote Originally Posted by Defenestrator View Post
    I may be entirely wrong here as I've never spent a lot of time considering doing criminal activities.

    But I would suggest that the only thing that has a deterrent effect on the criminal mind is the likelihood of getting caught, and not the severity of the punishment.
    Not so, career criminals by and large have a culture, certain things are done and certain things are not, the rest are opportunists and not that organized. For a very long time in the UK 'shooters' where frowned upon by crims as much as the police. They are not stupid, in this country they know a few things.... 1. Simply acquiring a gun is a risky enough venture that is likely to get you caught or lay a trail that leads to your door. 2. 99.9% of the time it is not needed, a lesser weaponed will do the job. 3. Penalties go through the roof if you are armed. What can I say, as far as I am concerned it works here, we very rarely hear news of gun crime and often when we do it is domestic stuff, irrational, emotional crap that was going to happen anyway. The other thing is that if you commit a crime with a gun down here, instead of having the local plod after you, you have a team of highly trained specialists that have no qualms about killing you if needs be... the crims know they move into the 'pro league' if they pull a gun, the stops come out and everything is thrown at finding them ASAP. The fact is that in reality the vast majority of them are not that hard and don't want that sort of effort thrown at catching them.
    Technical Analysis is a part of a market doctrine that accepts a high level of failure and incorporates loss prevention and risk control strategies to deal with that reality. If you do not understand what those strategies are, how to implement them and the probability of success involved in any given technical analysis setup THEN you should not treat the information given as any basis for decision making.

    Caveat Emptor.

    Cheers
    Z

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