Liberty Dollar Criminal Trial Starts on March 7, 2011

[Aurumag]

Liberty Dollar Criminal Trial Starts on March 7, 2011

The Liberty Dollar 4, now the Liberty Dollar 1, will be tried criminally in federal court in Statesville, North Carolina on March 7th, 2011.


This should be quite a circus!

[mcmurph]

The Fed/Treasury have a de facto monopoly on the term "dollar" and will not let it be used by others. Mint coins as money privately and use them, but DON'T put the word "dollar" on it!!! That's where the Liberty Dollar folks are running into problems.

[KGMe]

No it won't.

Fed will shut down on the 4th.

(Maybe?)

[Aurumag]

No it won't.

Fed will shut down on the 4th.

(Maybe?)

I understand and appreciate your post perhaps better than others.

After 3 years and 4 delays, I am still shocked that this trial ever made the docket.

I still cannot believe that the fed will be put on trial for the world to see, and make no mistake, this trial truly revolves around the definition of a "dollar."

I had pretty much given up on ever seeing this issue resolved in the courts, and at the very least, this should be a very interesting and entertaining trial, with a long list of very well-regarded witnesses...

...if it actually starts on March 7th.

[KGMe]

I understand and appreciate your post perhaps better than others.

After 3 years and 4 delays, I am still shocked that this trial ever made the docket.

I still cannot believe that the fed will be put on trial for the world to see, and make no mistake, this trial truly revolves around the definition of a "dollar."

I had pretty much given up on ever seeing this issue resolved in the courts, and at the very least, this should be a very interesting and entertaining trial, with a long list of very well-regarded witnesses...

...if it actually starts on March 7th.

I hear 'ya. Been waiting for this show down myself.

[Aurumag]

The trial begins tomorrow, March 8th 2011, with jury selection.

Apparently, all of the pre-trial activity was concluded last week.

I have been officially notified that I will not be testifying, as the defense's original list of 82 witnesses was significantly whittled down last Friday.

This is good news, because it means that now I can speak my mind regarding the trial, as it progresses, without fear of somehow "jeopardizing" the outcome.

Apparently Ron Paul and G. Edward Griffin have both been subpoenaed to testify on behalf of the defense.

The fed prosecutors are working diligently to limit the scope of the trial to the charges of counterfeiting and similitude (coinage).

Still, the trial provides a timely venue to compare the FRN to the Dollar.

I will keep this thread updated as I learn more.

[AGG]

The fed prosecutors are working diligently to limit the scope of the trial to the charges of counterfeiting and similitude (coinage).

Still, the trial provides a timely venue to compare the FRN to the Dollar.

I will keep this thread updated as I learn more.

Did you note the limitation of title 18's jurisdiction to being within the federal zone's. It was in a post in the other thread. I didn't see that you had started a post on this.

I doubt, question if the major newspapers will cover it. In fact: I couldn't find any reference to it in any of the NC newspapers such as Raleigh or Statesville.

[Aurumag]

Did you note the limitation of title 18's jurisdiction to being within the federal zone's. It was in a post in the other thread. I didn't see that you had started a post on this.

I doubt, question if the major newspapers will cover it. In fact: I couldn't find any reference to it in any of the NC newspapers such as Raleigh or Statesville.

Can you provide a link to the other thread? I can't seem to find another Liberty Dollar thread.

Yes, this trial will likely only be publicized outside the MSM, with the possibility of only a minor mention on the wire services.

[AGG]

Title 18 link

[HistoryStudent]

Hope they pick common sense JURORS who understand the power.

[Aurumag]

Hope they pick common sense JURORS who understand the power.

My thoughts and prayers exactly!

Although I have a great deal at stake with this case, in terms of my financial and personal credibility, I must be honest in stating that it is nigh impossible to obtain a jury of one's peers.

But if the defense lays out a good case, and the judge allows the jury to hear that defense, then there is hope of a fair trial.

[Tecumseh]

I sure would like my Ron Paul copper rounds.
And I sure would like to see the government thug that stole them face to face.

[Aurumag]

I sure would like my Ron Paul copper rounds.
And I sure would like to see the government thug that stole them face to face.

You and me both!

[AGG]

You and me both!

So it seems you already understand within and without the "United States" as those areas ceded to congress' exclusive jurisdiction?

[Aurumag]

So it seems you already understand within and without the "United States" as those areas ceded to congress' exclusive jurisdiction?

I understand that the United States .gov is a vast enterprise whose self-perpetuation is tied inextricably to the FRN, and that the LD was identified and neutralized as a threat to the monetary monopoly.

I also harbor no illusions that a U.S. Disctrict Court will mete out justice, when the purpose of the raid and now the trial, is ultimately to quash any resistance to the fed cabal.

Still, as dear leader says, "One can hope for change."

[AGG]

I understand that the United States .gov is a vast enterprise whose self-perpetuation is tied inextricably to the FRN, and that the LD was identified and neutralized as a threat to the monetary monopoly.

I also harbor no illusions that a U.S. Disctrict Court will mete out justice, when the purpose of the raid and now the trial, is ultimately to quash any resistance to the fed cabal.

Still, as dear leader says, "One can hope for change."

I was referring to your reference to 28 USC 1746; signiatures or testimony within and without the "United States" of exclusive congressional territorial jurisdiction.

I mostly agree with your points but would like to see victory. It may be that one reason they do not wish to publish the trial is so that any 'injustice' or twisting of the law won't be immediately evident.

[Aurumag]

This is the last commentary from defendant Bernard von NotHaus, until after the trial ( he claims).

He also stated in his latest newsletter that Ron Paul has declined to testify.

BVNH contends that he has invented a new monetary device that is not prohibited by the law and that an individual can issue his own private voluntary barter currency (PVBC). Of course the gov disagrees. Unfortunately for the gov, it has no basis for its case. The truth is that the gov simply does not like the politically active national NORFED organization and its patriotic mission to "return America to a value based currency - one Liberty Dollar at a time" and has done everything possible, including arresting its principals to try and kill the Liberty Dollar.

But the gov has not stopped the Free Dollar Movement. A couple of dozen different currencies have already sprung up from the NORFED seeds. People have taken the issuance of money into their own hands because they are not happy with the failing non-Federal non-Reserve IOU Note and want something better. Something with value! While the gov assumed that the NORFED arrestees would cop a plea like the 95% of all people arrested. NO! That did not happen. Now the gov must prove beyond a reasonable doubt to the satisfaction of twelve jurors in the Statesville Division of the Western District of North Carolina that BVNH counterfeited US coins.

If the charges were not so serious, it would be laughable that anybody could confuse the one ounce Silver Liberty with a penny, nickel, dime, quarter, half-dollar or an Ike dollar! But that is the basis of the gov case! But it is even more bizarre. The gov would have the jury believe that a whopping 2-1/2 inch diameter Silver Liberty could be confused with the "current money." Think that is incredibly dumb? Well they also "think" that the statue of King Kamehameha on the Hawaii Dala looks like a US coin and it is counterfeit too!

This gov has some very serious problems and it should solve those problems. It should not waste taxpayers' money on such a wrong-headed trial. Unfortunately, the gov is not very bright and what they will do and have done since NORFED introduced the Liberty Dollar on October 1, 1998 is inadvertently popularize alternate currencies as the US dollar tanks. It almost seems like a plan to secretly support a value based currency but that would give the gov more credit than it deserves.

One thing is for sure. This landmark monetary case of the century will be decided one way or the other. Either the jury will cherish the American individualistic spirit or BVNH will mistakenly go to prison. It is an all or nothing. BVNH feels morally bound as a citizen of a Republic to do what he thinks is best for the country. He "thinks" that our country deserves a better money than the gov is providing. Hope you can stop by the Federal District Court in Statesville, North Carolina, as the trial will not be televised. Running time is approx. one month.

PS: I am very pleased to hear that some people are coming from as far away as California for the trial! Please remember that you have a 30 day window to attend.

[GOLDZILLA]

we should all google search this trial and get as many people to google it at the same time and get it into the top trend sites so it will be on the main google home page....

[Somesilver]

The 1792 Monetary act defined "dollar" as equal to 371.25 grains of silver. I believe the one troy ounce (480 grains) Silver Liberty coin
was labeled "20 Dollars". By the 1792 definition, that coin was not 20 dollars, it was about $1.29. So, if they (the givverment) stuck to
the 1792 definition, it's clearly a case of fraud...saying $1.29 worth of silver is $20 worth. The accused were stamping out the
$20 coin when silver spot was somewhere around $9-15 if I recall correctly. In other words, maybe a "half truth" vis a vis the
Fed Reserve "dollar" which contains no silver at all and is a total lie.

Since there is no way the Government can pursue this based on the 1792 Statute, they are in sort of a quandry. Maybe they can
go after them on a claim of Trademark infringement. After all, what is the modern "dollar" other than a printed logo?
Question is who owns the trademark; the Treasury Department? Did they transfer the trademark to the Federal Reserve
in 1913? Or does the Fed merely have a hundred year lease? Sweet deal when you condsider they (the fed) pays no
royalties!

[Aurumag]

The 1792 Monetary act defined "dollar" as equal to 371.25 grains of silver. I believe the one troy ounce (480 grains) Silver Liberty coin
was labeled "20 Dollars". By the 1792 definition, that coin was not 20 dollars, it was about $1.29. So, if they (the givverment) stuck to
the 1792 definition, it's clearly a case of fraud...saying $1.29 worth of silver is $20 worth. The accused were stamping out the
$20 coin when silver spot was somewhere around $9-15 if I recall correctly. In other words, maybe a "half truth" vis a vis the
Fed Reserve "dollar" which contains no silver at all and is a total lie.

Since there is no way the Government can pursue this based on the 1792 Statute, they are in sort of a quandry. Maybe they can
go after them on a claim of Trademark infringement. After all, what is the modern "dollar" other than a printed logo?
Question is who owns the trademark; the Treasury Department? Did they transfer the trademark to the Federal Reserve
in 1913? Or does the Fed merely have a hundred year lease? Sweet deal when you condsider they (the fed) pays no
royalties!

As much as I love the Coinage Act of 1792, is has been long since "diluted;" the Coinage Act of 1965 coming to mind as the "lawful death" of the dollar as a unit of silver with a grain weight of 371.25.

As for the trademark issue:

I have to chuckle a little as I rememeber that the defendant owns the trademarked name Liberty Dollar.

[Aurumag]

LIBERTY DOLLAR TRIAL NEWS

United States v. Bernard von NotHaus (BvNH) Case # 5:09-CR-00027

LAST UPDATE: March 12, 2011 6:51am PST

I have not read through the whole thing, but so far so good!

Following is a snippet:

THE PROSECUTIONS CASE

Witness #1 – FBI Special Agent Andrew Romagnolo (aka Agent Andy)

According to his testimony Agent Andy began his investigation of the Liberty Dollar in June of 2004. A Statesville Bank called the FBI when a merchant customer attempted to deposit a Liberty Dollar into her account. He contacted Scott Marion of the Secret Service who contacted Daniel Shaver of the US Mint. Agent Andy went to a merchant in Asheville, North Carolina who was purportedly accepting and was offering the Liberty Dollar for sale. He purchased a $10 Liberty Dollar and a $5 Liberty Dollar. At that time the $10 LD was a one ounce silver round. He also received a list of merchants that would accept the Liberty Dollar in the Asheville area. His research indicated that some of the people involved with the Liberty Dollar were also involved in another organization that he was investigating, The Sovereign Citizen movement. Agent Andy had the $10 and the $5 Liberty sent to an FBI lab for testing.

At this point in the investigation Agent Andy sent in an under cover agent to gather further information on the Liberty Dollar. Agent Karen Walsh was assigned to go under cover and join the Liberty Dollar Organization as an associate. Walsh paid $250 for a welcome packet. Prosecutions Exhibit 25 – 27 contains the contents of the welcome packet, 4 one ounce liberty dollars, several warehouse receipts for silver, and multiple marketing materials.

Agent Walsh signed up to attend the upcoming Liberty Dollar University hereafter “LDU7� which was to be held in Fletcher, NC, October 19 – 22, 2005. Prosecutions Exhibit 17 – 23 contains all documents related to LDU7. They include the welcome letter, syllabus, Salesmanship 101, How to approach a business with the Liberty Dollar, New RCO strategy, and Employees Guide – 10 do’s and don’ts to using the Liberty Dollar and a form letter to present to the police before you begin distribution. Government Exhibits 12 – 15 were all recordings made of conversations with Agent Walsh, BvNH, and Kevin Innes at LDU7. Gov Exhibits 35 and 36 were Liberty Dollar Silver Pieces.

At this point Agent Andy in my opinion, lies from the stand, claiming Liberty Dollar to be a pyramid scheme or a Multi-Level Marketing organization. Really, this is 14 year veteran agent of the FBI. There is no doubt he knows the difference between a pyramid scheme and a standard corporate marketing structure that involves direct sales. It is my opinion, but he lied and I witnessed it.

His next testimony then turned to the September 14, 2006 consumer currency advisory warning posted by the US mint. The warning was sent by certified mail to the BvNH, the RCO’s, and was published in USA today, the Washington Post and other mainstream media papers.

In October 2006 LDU11 was held in Skokie, Illinois. The next piece of evidence presented by the prosecution drew a chuckle from most present in the court room. It was the infamous “Bite Me� t-shirt that an agent bought at LDU11 marked G. Ex. 39. To be accurate the t-shirt read “The US Mint Can Bite Me�. After LDU11, BvNH came to Asheville on two more occasions to present training.

...

You can read more by visiting the link below:

http://www.liberty4free.com/Liberty%...ar%20Trial.htm

[AGG]

THE DEFENSE CROSS EXAMINATION OF AGENT ANDY

Defense council, Randy Lee, began his questioning with “Are you aware that the defendant filed suit March 7, 2007 in the District Court of Indiana against the US Mint seeking a redress of grievances?” Yes he was aware. This suit also named Henry Paulson, Alberto Gonzales and others and was seeking an injunction against the US Mint requesting a redress of grievances stating that the use of Liberty Dollar was not against the law.

Agent Andy testified that he requested the US Mint issue the warning. He was also unaware that any declaratory judgment was available regarding the legality of the Liberty Dollar in a civil suit such as that which was filed.

He testified that he did know Liberty Dollar was incorporated in Nevada. NORFED stands for “National Organization to Repeal the Federal Reserve Act and the Internal Revenue Code. He did not know whether Bernard was an architect before he started Liberty Dollar. Andy had no special training from the FBI regarding Pyramid Schemes or Multi-Level Marketing. He was aware that they were characterized by residual payments, and the Liberty Dollar did not make these types of payments to the RCO’s. He had reviewed the audits of the Liberty Dollar and had found them to represent the accurate quantities that existed.

{Earlier, Agent Andy had made the claim that the Liberty dollar was a multi-level Marketing organization}

He testified that having the head of the Statute of Liberty on the face of the Liberty Dollar was not in itself illegal. He had no training in counterfeit identification. That the Liberty Dollar clearly says it is .999 Fine Silver and no US Coin says that. That they also confiscated tokens promoting the 2nd Amendment and the Ron Paul Presidential Candidacy even though they had not been used as currency. The Liberty Dollar legitimately contains what it says it contains.

Does the government make any “coins” that contain .999 Fine Silver? No, but pre-1964 “coins” contain silver. When asked what the value of the Kennedy half dollar is he said “But nobody makes money passing the Kennedy Half Dollar”. Think about it, this is better than a “Sheenism”!

Defense questions included, how many government “coins” are marked MSRP? None.

Did you search the Sunshine Mint? No other agents did.

Can you approximate the amount of bullion seized at the Sunshine Mint? No, but in total 10 tons of Gold, Silver, Platinum, and Palladium were seized from the entire organization.

What is a warehouse receipt and how is it different from a Federal Reserve Note? A warehouse receipt can be turned in for gold or silver.

During your investigation did you make an effort to determine who owned the tons of silver, gold, platinum, and palladium that was to be seized? No, we assumed that it belonged to the Liberty Dollar because it was in Liberty Dollars custody.

So the warehouse receipts cannot be redeemed because you are holding all of the silver and gold. Is that correct? Yes.

Have you had training regarding patent infringement? No.

If a person draws up a round to have it made where do they go to ask the mint if it is legal? They cannot.

Then he went on to explain the difference between Barter, Local Currency, and Private Currency. Barter is like trading a chicken or jelly beans, and examples of local currency would be something like “Ithica Hours”.

“You testified regarding Statutes 485 and 486 that make it illegal to utter or pass “coins” of gold or silver. What is the definition of a "coin"? A coin is legal tender.

There is a 5 ounce silver liberty. Does the US Government make a 5 ounce Silver? No.

The last question from the defense was, “Were you aware of any paper receipts being passed?” His answer, No.

[Aurumag]

http://www.liberty4free.com/Liberty%..._Day_4_(Part_2)

Jury deliberations begin Friday the 18th at 9 AM.

Counterfeiting, similitude (to U.S. Mint coinage) and conspiracy to commit fraud by selling counterfeit coins.

Stay tuned!

[Aurumag]

Guilty on all counts.


I'm going to bed.

[GOLDZILLA]

My question is: What will become of the metals they pilfered away from its rightful owners and

I wonder if these things will go up in value as souvenirs?

[latemetal]

Corruption rules, lets' see what gets overturned on appeals.

[Aurumag]

My question is: What will become of the metals they pilfered away from its rightful owners and

I wonder if these things will go up in value as souvenirs?

As soon as the last (NASCAR and Final Four Fanatic) juror left the courtroom, a fed named Ascik, who greatly resembles a vitamin D deficient vampire, rose and immediately demanded forfeiture of all confiscated PMs, for deposit into the General Fund of the U.S. Treasury.
He even demanded that the LD's defense team surrender all trial evidence either printed or minted with Liberty Dollar.

The judge kept him at bay, at least until April 4th, when the forfeiture arguments will begin in earnest.

As far as souveniers are concerned:

I am waiting for the court transcripts. I heard the words counterfeit and contraband enough times to make me very uncomfortable.

The two largest sellers of LDs on eBay both pulled all of their LD product down.

I am going to "test-exchange" some LDs for FRNs as bullion in order to get a feel for the melt-market.

Once pawn shops start refusing them as counterfeit/contraband, it is officially over.

12 "peers" and not one could see the contrast in value between a .999 Ag, one troy ounce medallion, and a $10 paper FRN.

Given the 90 minute jury deliberation, it is apparent that BvNH was guilty within the first few days of the trial, and the prosecutors did a good job of introducing his many anti-American character flaws, such as not paying fed taxes for 15 years.

His pony-tail didn't help either...

[Book]

When is this trial scheduled?