I apologize in advance...

[Jimmie]

I apologize in advance for my ignorance but I have a question that I need to ask the more seasoned players here at GIM2.

My father and I have only recently started thinking about seriously investing in silver. We missed the boat when Spot was at ~$20 and now here we are with very little physical silver. With prices skyrocketing... is now still the time to buy or did we miss the boat completely? Considering most of this is going to be his, I don't want to push him into making the wrong decision. Both of us would really like some silver but is it it going to get higher? I fear that if we get into it now, spot will plummet and I would have wasted his money.

Also, another thing that is killing me is that the price over spot you pay at either APMEX or Gainesville Coins (currently $3.50 for ASE's) keeps increasing... that puts the price of a new 2011 ASE at $39.19 before shipping. I mean how does that compute?

So again, to ask my newb question. To buy or not to buy? Did I miss out?

[Goldhedge]

Buy Buy BUY!


It's common for a dealer to make money on the turn.

$3.50 on top of the buy and most likely the same on
the sell side. Meaning you get $3.50 less than spot on
the sell. It's called "the vig" or vigorish. How else they
going to make money? Typically, it's a percent (10%?)
of the spot.

Follow Hawkeye's thread....

[Silver Buck]

So again, to ask my newb question. To buy or not to buy? Did I miss out?

It depends...

I'm new at this (climbing onboard at $19 and buying with both hands at $23) but I am in it for the long haul (10-15 years).

There are some that will tell you to wait until later this year (the summer 'slump'?), and there will be others to say go all in at the very next bit of a dip. Others will say buy in stages.

In the end, it depends.

And where did I leave that Magic 8-Ball?

Anyway, most folks will say it doesn't really matter what you pay for it today because a year from now you won't care if you paid low-mid-or high $30s. You will be glad you got what you did and will wish you had bought more!

Like me!

I watched the spot every day - all day - and agonized when to make my next dip purchase. I would watch how London would play out and if New York began pounding down the price for the second day in a row I would dash to my pusher to buy blemished SAEs (if he had them), Prospectors and Maples next, with an eye out for Libertads.

I could save $.20 to $.40 an ounce buy watching the NY pounding of Silver, but I don't see the same set of cycles going on now.

Big question on my part: What is the ultimate use of said Silver? Is it for investing for an increase of wealth? Is it a way to park your money? Are you leaving this as a family legacy?

If it is the latter - I don't think it is going to matter much at all when you buy. Otherwise, watch the prices. If London holds steady and NY pounds it down for the second day in a row, that's the time to buy.

As always: Buyer Beware! Do Your Own Due Diligence! Don't become a victim of 'Analysis Paralysis'!

[bemac]

Now is a better time to buy gold rather than silver, IMHO.

If you are buying for the long-term, i.e., you plan on keeping for several years or longer, then you'll be fine either way, gold or silver. If you're looking for short-term gains, you leave open the possibility of disappointment.

BTW, I like your avatar.

[Jimmie]

Thanks for the quick responses!

@ Silver Buck,

We're mostly doing this for investment purposes to increase wealth. But it would definitely be awesome to still have some to pass down to my kids when that day comes.

To respond to bemac's post... We're definitely planning on holding onto this theoretical stash for several years or longer. Also, thanks about the avatar! The Scottsdale Omnia's are beautiful. Would love to have me some of those!

[SongSungAU]

To buy or not to buy? Did I miss out?

To buy or not to buy? Did I miss out?

Good questions, Jimmie. I think Goldhedge is correct when he said buy buy buy. After all, if silver is going to be $50, $60 or higher then paying $40 is a no brainer. However, nobody knows what tomorrow will bring. Could silver experience a dip? Sure.

Could politicians start doing their job in a fiscally responsible way? Sure but what are the chances?

I guess what I am trying to say is, I know what you are feeling when you think the price of silver has already risen too much to start buying now. I felt the same way last year. It was difficult for me to pay $20.43 for each Silver American Eagle. Today, my concern over that price seems silly. It didn't seem that way at the time.

I am not a financial planner nor advisor so I can't give advice to anyone. What I might say to you is to not invest all your money at one time. Do part now and save some "dry powder" for later. If there is a pullback, like the day before the next jobs report, buy some more. In the meantime, if silver prices decline you can buy some more.

The thought that I have to keep reminding myself is this.... "Is the Federal Reserve going to stop printing money anytime soon?"

I don't see how. I believe it's a given that our national debt will not be paid back with dollars that are worth anything. That is why I am confident in holding onto my silver even when the price dips, I know it will come back because the government isn't going to do anything but inflate their way out of the debt problem.

Good luck and best wishes, Jimmie.

[Goldhedge]

"Investment purposes to increase wealth"??

I look at it differently. I buy silver coins to KEEP my wealth.

The difference is how you 'look' at it.

If you believe in paper money, you believe you are going
to 'make more money' later by selling your silver.

If you believe in silver as wealth, when you sell it, you'll get
more pieces of worth less, and less, paper for it.

It's inflationary to print more pieces of paper. Paper is on fire,
silver and gold are the canary in the mine pointing this out.

[Jimmie]

SongSungAU, thank you so much. Your post was very insightful! I really appreciate that.

@ Goldhedge

I understand that the way I said it might sound lame or cheesy. I know that gold and silver is a way to store and keep wealth and believe me, I'm in no way in this to make a quick buck or anything like that. While I also believe that it's a tremendous way to keep wealth, I'd be blind if I couldn't see the potential payoff too. It's just really cool knowing that the paltry 5 ounces I purchased from a buddy of mine for $100 about 5 or 6 months ago (whenever it was $20 last) has turned into $178 in a relatively short amount of time. I don't think that I'd ever sell my entire lot at one time but I certainly wouldn't be against selling a reasonable amount if the returns were great.

Like you, I believe that gold and silver is real money. More real than this paper we're throwing around today for sure. But I also have to be practical. The world we live in runs off paper money... so if I have an opportunity to make a large return off silver then I'm probably going to take it. But again, I would never sell my entire lot. Despite the inherent monetary value of silver, I also love the stuff! And that's not going away anytime soon.

I hope this post gives you a better idea of where I'm coming from.

[silverblood]

You might consider lower-premium forms of silver. The premium on SAEs is always going to be on the high side relative to generic rounds. Junk silver is good and about as cheap as it gets. Non-name brand generic rounds, 5 oz, and 10 oz bars have fairly low premiums.

Also shop around. Provident Metals has low shipping costs (and they are running a shipping special right now) and a generally lower price than the ones you mentioned.

You can avoid shipping charges by buying from local coin shops; some have good prices, some don't, so be sure to compare.

Many states collect sales taxes on bullion under some limit. In Texas, it is $1000, so you have to spend a lot to avoid the "State premium". Of course, you have to weigh that against shipping charges for out of state sales.

I don't think it's too late. I'm still buying both gold and silver. Watching for the little dips, but not worrying about it too much.

[diversified2]

I look at precious metals as insurance. You have to realize that any significant gain in FRN price doesn't mean you are getting wealthier but perhaps the value of those FRNs is going down as the FED inflates the supply. So I try to think in ounces not $$$ and get the most ounces for my depreciating FRNs.

[gnome]

We've been on a good tear here for a while. May is typically the month where seasonality takes over and the metals take a hit. We might not have a big selloff this summer, but I would be cautious. You could start dollar cost averaging in, but if it were me I would not buy a huge chunk right now.

[klichko]

To buy or not to buy? Did I miss out?

There are no prophets here. Silver may go down $1,2,3,4,5 tomorrow. No one can tell. Many believe it will go much higher in a long run. I do too.

You have to make your own judgment and decision.

[Jimmie]

I have thought about picking up some generic rounds in the past but something deterred me. I had read in a silver investment book (don't recall the name) that when you sell to a dealer you have to report a certain amount of ounces sold to the IRS? And something about ASE's being exempt from this? Please correct me if I'm wrong. It's late and I think my brain is shutting down!

[silverblood]

Try this:

http://news.coinupdate.com/irs-and-g...-dealers-0353/

The whole article is good. The chart down toward the bottom is what you are referring to. Yes, it is true that the sale of SAE's and GAE's in any quantity do not trigger the requirement for a 1099-B, there are actually relatively few categories of bullion to which the requirement applies. Generic silver "rounds" do not match any category.

[spathatos]

There is no time like the present (it is all we can control). This game is to the aggressive as it presently lays. Your passiveness has not been rewarded. Use that lesson now and pull the trigger. I guarantee in one year you will be glad you did. This thing is just getting going. You will see prices double of the current ones today in a relatively short time. It’s funny when I think about it. I remember waiting years for gains, now though, gains are made bi-weekly.

Many people today are afraid of spending money to make money. They sit on the sidelines watching high after high. Frugal spending is wise but not when it overshadows legitimate investing opportunities (especially ones that protect wealth and assets).

As for your reporting requirements, do not get caught up in it so long as you aren’t spending more than 10k. See the link below for further details.

http://news.coinupdate.com/irs-and-g...-dealers-0353/

[linekerca]

There is no time like the present (it is all we can control). This game is to the aggressive as it presently lays. Your passiveness has not been rewarded. Use that lesson now and pull the trigger. I guarantee in one year you will be glad you did. This thing is just getting going. You will see prices double of the current ones today in a relatively short time. It’s funny when I think about it. I remember waiting years for gains, now though, gains are made bi-weekly.
http://news.coinupdate.com/irs-and-g...-dealers-0353/

I am new to PMs as well. I bought 100oz when spot was 29.x, then 40oz at 27.x (WTF, shoulda gone all in there), then 100oz at 31.x, then 50oz at 34.x. All within 2 months, yes 2 months. It is not too late my friend, until the price hits $50.

[Dude]

I'm buying coin with historical numismatic value priced near the silver content value. I would not consider buying a generic silver bar at today's spot. But then again, I've got silver coin that I had prior to 1980 that I refused to part with at that time.

[Usc96]

Buy Buy BUY!


It's common for a dealer to make money on the turn.

$3.50 on top of the buy and most likely the same on
the sell side. Meaning you get $3.50 less than spot on
the sell. It's called "the vig" or vigorish. How else they
going to make money? Typically, it's a percent (10%?)
of the spot.

Follow Hawkeye's thread....

vigorish |ˈvigəri sh |

noun informal
1 [in sing. ] an excessive rate of interest on a loan, typically one from an illegal moneylender.

[RoyalBeluga]

Thanks for the quick responses!

@ Silver Buck,

We're mostly doing this for investment purposes to increase wealth. But it would definitely be awesome to still have some to pass down to my kids when that day comes.

To respond to bemac's post... We're definitely planning on holding onto this theoretical stash for several years or longer. Also, thanks about the avatar! The Scottsdale Omnia's are beautiful. Would love to have me some of those!

.... when that day does come ask yourself what you would feel better passing down to them .... sillver or gold? I know what I want to pass down.

[Apocalypto]

Hi Jimmie. Buy. Now.

Your accumulation points should be spread out anyway, so there's no time like the present to jump in. NO ONE knows which way the move will be next, up or down, and if they tell you they definitely know they're lying. May as well just jump in. At the end of the day, it's not your average cost per ounce that will matter, but your total ounces.

[RoyalBeluga]

.... when that day does come ask yourself what you would feel better passing down to them .... sillver or gold? I know what I want to pass down.

It's Gold by the way, just in case you was wondering.

[Sheepdog]

Welcome Jimmie. One of the US states is considering making gold and silver legal tender along with the dollar. I think most will follow in that. The dollar is in peril that is sure and a lot believe the dollar will die this years end. The result on the population is the big question. Anarchy? Mad Max? or a lesser evil of some sort?

Gold and silver in your hands is a hedge and insurance policy on the dollar dying. A silver coin will get more valuable as it has the last few years and months. It will continue based on what we all see in the world now. if you put $1000 in dollars aside under a pillow what do you have when that dollar fails? If you put 30 ounces of silver or 100 ounces of silver away you still have the silver. That silver will buy gasoline or food.

If you research and come to the same conclusions I have about all this you need to get PM's. Silver because it is less expensive now, fractional gold also. You also need a plan that may include extra foodstuffs and ammo. Yep, when people lose everything and have nothing left to lose- they lose it!

I have more indepth views but you can message me privately if you wish to know more on that. Welcome to GIM and thank God you are awake now!

go look at this video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=klswVIp078M

[Spike]

Why is the silver price quotes from chitco showing 20 cents higher

close then other quotes I've seen? Like Netdania and coininfo.

Alot of coinshops use Chitco for spot.

You'll be paying more this weekend.

[PM Stacker]

I am enjoying this thread. Good info.

[Silver Buck]

.... when that day does come ask yourself what you would feel better passing down to them .... sillver or gold? I know what I want to pass down.

I'd feel great passing down both.

@Jimmie

One of the assets I will convert my Silver/Gold into down the road is a 'new' vehicle. It does not have to be brand new, but new to me. What I may do is sell off some of my PMs when the increased value amount affords me what I want to buy. This way I am taking some profit and obtaining an asset.

Example: Out of my stacks I have $5K set aside towards the purchase of a vehicle. Once my total stackage has increased by $5K, I will consider selling off $5K toward the purchase of a vehicle. If you start off with a $10K stack, your stack needs to increase 50% to get your $5K. You then sell off that $5K and put that toward a vehicle and you still have a $10K stack and a tangible asset. $20K starting stack will only need to increase by 25%.

Now, there is no saying you have to sell off right away. The longer you let things ride and the price rises, the more you may be able to put toward a vehicle or the bigger the stack you will still have after you remove $5K.

Myself, I am looking to roll some of my stack into play in the stock market, maybe. I'm still doing some due diligence there and don't know if I will feel comfortable enough putting some money into play there.

[MISRy]

As has been implied already, some of us are in the ounce club. It matters very little how many pieces of paper are exchanged for our ounces. All that matters is that we end up with ounces. In my case ounces of silver are more affordable but the end goal of those silver ounces is gold ounces. Just this past Wednesday I bought 2 Prospectors and a dos peso. By doing that sort of thing on a regular basis I have the resources (silver) to take to a coin show tomorrow and walk out with gold at 40:1.

The dos peso is fractional gold. Once you have enough fractionals you can trade them for a more desirable form of gold. The example I'm most proud of is turning 16 grams of gold in mostly dos pesos and 1 gram bars into a Liberty eagle. Imagine that, turning Mexican restrikes and "cheap" little Turkish one gram bars into genuine pre-1933 US gold! I admit the eagle is jewelry grade but I got what I wanted and they got what they wanted.

The point is buy. When the price is low buy more, when it's high buy less. The question should never be should I buy, the question should be did I buy enough or too much.

[Goldteam]

I am going with the 20% rule:

20% sold at the right price

20% given to my church

20% given to my loved ones upon my death

20% to help others in need should the need arise

20% for anything that may come up or I don't expect

[Silver Buck]

I am going with the 20% rule:

20% sold at the right price

20% given to my church

20% given to my loved ones upon my death

20% to help others in need should the need arise

20% for anything that may come up or I don't expect

It is refreshing to see someone with such noble goals.

[Jimmie]

So... I took the leap and picked up 100oz this morning. I was fortunate enough to find a local seller via craigslist that was letting his stash go for a reasonable price, ($1 over spot). He had a few interesting items. Six NORFED 1oz coins and three California Crown Mint 5oz bars that I'd never seen before. Pretty cool ingots.

[VTEEZER]

So... I took the leap and picked up 100oz this morning. I was fortunate enough to find a local seller via craigslist that was letting his stash go for a reasonable price, ($1 over spot). He had a few interesting items. Six NORFED 1oz coins and three California Crown Mint 5oz bars that I'd never seen before. Pretty cool ingots.

Congrats! Welcome to " The Uninsurable Boaters Club of America"! What kind of boat do you have? LOL

[Scorpio]

Jimmie,

welcome aboard, and please be careful out there 'til you and your dad get the lay of the land,

as always, there are sheisters out there, wherein if you buy larger lot stuff, you can run into fakes,

many of us promote small size denominations in silver to prevent that ie 1 oz, 5 oz, 10 oz. Keep it simple, cool things mean higher prices. Don't get caught in the numi trades. That is for those that know what they are doing re value and worth. Many of us do not touch or are not conversant in numismatics.

Eagles and Maples you will pay more per ounce, but they also sell at more per oz.

Your best bet for lowest cost per oz is standard rounds and bars in small denominations.

I don't buy specialty rounds like 'WTC' rounds for anything over normal round or bar price 'cause that is all they are. They are not something special, and not worth more than the silver in them.

Tread lightly and buy intelligently.

As for the when to buy, there are proven seasonals in the metals. They go up thru the fall, take a break, go up in winter thru early spring, then take a breather over the summer.
The risk in that is if the seasonal quits working, and instead of going down in the late spring and early summer, they go up. It is pretty solid that way though.

During the metals bear market, the metals would almost always go up on Thur, only for the trend to reassert itself on Friday and get crushed again.

The exact opposite is happening now, down hard on Thurs, then the dominant trend reasserts on Fri and up big we go.

That gives you a clue on when to buy on a weekly basis.

Scorp

[Jimmie]

Hey Scorpio,

I really appreciate the input! The 100oz's that I picked up were in fact in 1-5oz denominations. Nothing larger than 5oz here. Normally I wouldn't buy into numismatics because I really only care about the silver content of the coin but we were really itching to get our hands on some and he wanted to sell off the entire lot and at a price that's cheaper than most online, we decided to go for it. I emailed the guy back and forth to get a feel for who I was dealing with and he seemed solid so we met up at a safe public location and made the deal.

Thank you for the seasonal info! That will definitely come in handy.