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Thread: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

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    Default Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    Is there a preference or a more widely accepted service than another?
    Slow is smooth.....smooth is fast...

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    Good question - if you don't mind me adding to your question... How much does it cost to get coins graded?

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    IMHO PCGS is the 900 lb gorilla of coin grading. NGC is a distant second.

    Go to their web sites for info on the costs, etc.
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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    Quote Originally Posted by phideaux View Post
    IMHO PCGS is the 900 lb gorilla of coin grading. NGC is a distant second.

    Go to their web sites for info on the costs, etc.
    Could you elaborate your opinion a little on that? Is that becuase they have better people or standards or.....? Thanks Phideaux
    Last edited by REO 54; 06-10-2011 at 10:47 AM. Reason: word
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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    I think he is referring to resale value of coins slabbed by those companies, which is likely a recognition of their grading consistency, but also their brand recognition. I prefer PCGS and NGC, and think they are comparable, but have noticed a slight premium for PCGS graded coins over NGC, but I wouldn't say by much.

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    Quote Originally Posted by REO 54 View Post
    Could you elaborate your opinion a little on that? Is that becuase they have better people or standards or.....? Thanks Phideaux
    PCGS essentially invented modern coin grading and slabbing. They are more meticulous and demanding in their grading. you can find PCGS and NGC price guides on the Internet, compare the prices, though note that the price guides are just that, guides, and they can be sorta like the MSRP on a car, not really actual market based prices. Go to your local coin dealer or even eBay and compare the actual prices for the coins you are interested in, grade by grade, for each grading service.
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    I'm not, uh, the emperor of the United States."

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    I went ahead and bought a NGC W MS70 Eagle 2007 first realease edition on Ebay for $80.88. My first time purchasing this type of coin.
    Slow is smooth.....smooth is fast...

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    Quote Originally Posted by REO 54 View Post
    I went ahead and bought a NGC W MS70 Eagle 2007 first realease edition on Ebay for $80.88. My first time purchasing this type of coin.
    You should be happy with the coin. There are some modern coins, like the proof like 2009 Ultra High Relief coin, that command a higher price when slabbed by NGC over other services. Enjoy.

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    Since you asked opinions...I have had MANY (probably too many) coins graded and my order of preference would be PCGS, NGC, ANACS. The cost (of grading) factor also follow that same order. PCGS and NGC each have their quirks but they are usually the most respected.

    I will add that if I found a coin graded the same by both companies and the cost difference was significant i would definitely go with the better priced coin (of those two companies only). Most of my Silver Eagles are NGC graded and my ATB pucks are PCGS graded.

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    andy gause (sharp dude, coin dealer) says ngc is his #1 choice. the market seems to value the top two the same.
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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    I'm certainly no expert, but looking at slabbed coins of series I collect typically I've found that PCGS coins sell for more than NGC examples. I think part of the reason for this is due to the fact that there's a perception out there that NGC hand's out more 70's than PCGS.

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    From what I understand, PCGS & NGC are the top rivals. Top tier and demand top dollar as you can be confident with the grading. ANACS is more of a packaging service and some consider them a joke. I hardly ever see sub 70 ANACS grades and if they are, even an idiot can see the flaws.
    Case in point: when its NGC or PCGS in an eBay auction, you see the service clear in the title. If its ANACS, all you see is the grade in the title with no mention of the service even in the description

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    My 07 cents (02 cents after taxes and inflation) is that an NGC coin is worth about 1/2 a grade lower than the same grade of PCGS.

    IGC is worth about 1 1/2 grades lower than PCGS and ANACS is 2 grades lower.

    So for example an ANACS 68 is worth about the same "value" as a PCGS 66.

    Just my general rule of thumb, JMHO.
    " 'The problem' is, uh, I'm the president of the United States;
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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    Quote Originally Posted by cpthnsolo View Post
    I'm certainly no expert, but looking at slabbed coins of series I collect typically I've found that PCGS coins sell for more than NGC examples. I think part of the reason for this is due to the fact that there's a perception out there that NGC hand's out more 70's than PCGS.
    ..and that's exactly what it is ...a perception...

    For example..I collect, grade and sell ASE's.....comparison stats using the 2010 POP reports of both companies:

    PCGS ...total graded 94,644....number of 70's = 71,756 which means 75% of ALL 2010 ASE bullion coins submitted were given a grade of 70 (22,736 were 69's)
    NGC......total graded 755,910..number of 70's = 48,380 which means only 6% of all 2010 ASE bullion coins were given a grade of 70 (707,402 were 69's)

    Totally depends on the coin submitted....oh.....and....perception

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    Thanks for the numbers Foxwoods. I think we need a few more direct comparisons just for the sake of it. Here are the numbers from the NCG population report for the 2010 MS First spouse coins. If someone could post the PCGS numbers for the sake of comparison it would be appreciated:

    MS 2010 spouse - Total graded --- MS69 ----- MS70
    ABIGAIL FILLMORE - 675__________75________600
    JANE PIERCE - 530_______________58________472
    BUCHANAN'S LIBERTY - 731________71________660
    MARY LINCOLN - 480_____________87________393

    Roughly 88% of the coins above received a 70 from NGC.

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    As I said above...it totally depends on the issue, date and type of the coin submitted. For example in 2006 PCGS ,by policy, would not give a grade of 70 to any MS ASE because they were afraid of the milk spotting potential...most of the submissions then went to NGC and soon, surprise!,, they started correctly grading the 70's.

    As hard as it is to believe, the top two companies best trait is not consistency....

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    So to summerize,it boils down to the big 2 ;PCGS and NGC and after that it's a personal preference rather than hard stats?
    Thanks in advance for all your responses,it's been helpful
    Slow is smooth.....smooth is fast...

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    PCGS is #1 by a mile, NGC has it's uses but is a distant second as mentioned. In Canada we don't grade anything higher than a 68. The massive amount of perfect
    "70" slabs that the US TPG's have churned out is laughable.

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    Ok ,but why do feel PCGS is top dog?
    Slow is smooth.....smooth is fast...

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    Quote Originally Posted by JEKYLL-7 View Post
    PCGS is #1 by a mile, NGC has it's uses but is a distant second as mentioned. In Canada we don't grade anything higher than a 68. The massive amount of perfect
    "70" slabs that the US TPG's have churned out is laughable.
    What are the Canadian TPG's???? Didn't know they existed.....

    ....and re: In Canada "we" don't grade anything higher than a 68..........maybe "you" should work on improving the quality of the coins produced

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    No mention of what you collect...only top tier grading numbers were talked about.
    Numismatics is about MORE than just MS70 coins
    If you prefer errors, clips or the like, PCGS is NOT the company to use.
    PCGS uses a "Minor Variety" designation which is worthless.
    PCGS is missing some population reports for - 2010 Silver Eagle 25th Year Anniversary, and 2005 Silver Eagle First Strike.
    NGC I am not to familiar with.
    My error coins I strictly use ANACS.
    I can get the designation clearly on the label. The price is approx 1/3 of the other guys so I send all Morgans for VAM designation and any that are valuable as well. I can upslab at a later date. In the mean time, I have them certified, labeled and protected and I have money in my pocket.
    It is purely a personal choice.
    I have compared PCGS and ANACS with a 2001 Kennedy half dollar and PCGS is an MS64 and ANACS is an MS65.
    Same rolled coins.
    I am happy and figured a system which works for me.
    I have my PCGS membership up for renewal and I will go the cheap route.
    ANACS does not charge for membership but their online population report is atrocious, very badly kept.
    Again, personal choice.
    That's what works for me!

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    "It is purely a personal choice" -Buck

    Got it.DYOD! I wonder what would pan out if you sent the same coin to all 3 graders and see what shows up for a comparison?I might try that as exercise and post results.
    What kind of coin would be good a candidate for such a trial?
    Slow is smooth.....smooth is fast...

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    In Australia it is PCGS is the grading company. All others do not rate a mention.

    PCGS are considered to be accurate and command a premium.
    Having seen coins first hand in holders I can say that this is true. There is a big difference between coins grades and distinctly noticeable under magnification. I 'mainly' do Australian pre-decimal silver 1910-1964.

    If I wanted coins graded, PCGS are it. What sucks is their membership structure and the fact that they are overseas in the US.
    Condemnation without investigation is the highest form of ignorance.

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    Quote Originally Posted by REO 54 View Post
    Ok ,but why do feel PCGS is top dog?
    Market share, total value of coins graded, reputation with top tier dealers and collectors, buy-back guarantees, registry sets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Foxwoods Man View Post
    What are the Canadian TPG's???? Didn't know they existed.....
    ....and re: In Canada "we" don't grade anything higher than a 68..........maybe "you" should work on improving the quality of the coins produced
    We have two. One is quite visible at larger and national level shows and in more serious collections, the other is small but trying to gain gain momentum.
    Many of the top tier coins though are in PCGS slabs, and when sold to go Heritage Auctions in the US.

    As for the whole 70 issue, it's just a matter of old school versus new school. There was a time when a "70" was a theoretical perfect coin, but never used in practical grading practice. Somewhere along the way that changed. There are Canadian coins in "68" holders that show zero flaws at 10X, they are "70" coins by US TPG standards. My issue comes with grades above "superb MS", aka MS-67. A true MS-67 should show only the tiniest flaw, usually noted only after serious study of the coin with magnification. To suggest that a grading resolution of three more points above that is needed is probably is stretching things.

    In the end it's just the result of grade creep, with grading becoming more sloppy over time as the commonly used portion of the scale extends and dilutes.

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    PCGS is great. They are pretty honest about grading. When I get my coins back I am always feeling a little let-down, (because the coins don't hit the higher grades as I would have liked them to) That being said, it's actually a good thing, because it proves that PCGS won't blow smoke up people's derrieres just to gain more business.

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    For me the 2010 ATB bullion program was a great learning opportunity re NGC, PCGS and Anacs. I was one of the first to receive a set from Apmex in late Dec 2010. Having never sent anything in for grading before I went through a local coin shop who sent the coins to NGC. They came back 68s and 69s but no PL or DMPL desig (not sure if that part of the grading had not started yet). Subsequent ATBs I sent to PCGS and received grades ranging from 64DMPL to 69PL. A couple months later I sent the NGC coins in for regrade to NGC and had one bumped from a 68 to a 69 as well a 68 to a 68PL and a 69 to a 69 PL. I look at the NGC coins next to the PCGS coins and I have to say the NGC, though lower grades, look better. It seems to me that PCGS went off track with the PL/DMPL thing. Personally, I feel NGC had higher standards regarding this particular series. And as far as Anacs goes they are the only service to grade any 2010 5 oz ATB bullion as 70.

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck View Post
    No mention of what you collect...only top tier grading numbers were talked about.
    Numismatics is about MORE than just MS70 coins
    If you prefer errors, clips or the like, PCGS is NOT the company to use.
    PCGS uses a "Minor Variety" designation which is worthless.
    PCGS is missing some population reports for - 2010 Silver Eagle 25th Year Anniversary, and 2005 Silver Eagle First Strike.
    NGC I am not to familiar with.
    My error coins I strictly use ANACS.
    I can get the designation clearly on the label. The price is approx 1/3 of the other guys so I send all Morgans for VAM designation and any that are valuable as well. I can upslab at a later date. In the mean time, I have them certified, labeled and protected and I have money in my pocket.
    It is purely a personal choice.
    I have compared PCGS and ANACS with a 2001 Kennedy half dollar and PCGS is an MS64 and ANACS is an MS65.
    Same rolled coins.
    I am happy and figured a system which works for me.
    I have my PCGS membership up for renewal and I will go the cheap route.
    ANACS does not charge for membership but their online population report is atrocious, very badly kept.
    Again, personal choice.
    That's what works for me!
    EXACTLY!

    NEITHER PCGS or NGC would even grade this coin for me as it is....

    So know your coins and the coin company to send it to.

    NGC is better on Modern Proofs; and, PCGS is better on Modern Mint States for example.


    I have a ANACS MS58 1909 D/D $20 Saint with pictures and both told me it was to rare to grade and not in their CHERRY PICKERS guide. Politics!

    It's ONE of FOUR at ANACS!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1909DD$20.jpg  
    Be careful out there; IT is a jungle.

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    I'm probably going to submit a few coins to ICG to see how it works out. Never dealt w/ them before, used to be a PCGS member, but have my reasons for excluding the 2 'majors' in this case.

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    What is the cheapest charge that the big boys pay for bulk submissions at PCGS? Someone made an assumption that bulk can cost major submitters as little as $5 on a coin website.

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    Quote Originally Posted by hernancortes View Post
    I'm probably going to submit a few coins to ICG to see how it works out. Never dealt w/ them before, used to be a PCGS member, but have my reasons for excluding the 2 'majors' in this case.
    You'll probably get good grades...just don't try to sell them.....

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    Quote Originally Posted by hernancortes View Post
    I'm probably going to submit a few coins to ICG to see how it works out. Never dealt w/ them before, used to be a PCGS member, but have my reasons for excluding the 2 'majors' in this case.
    I used to use them before for the ANCIENT gold coins before 1600s. Now NGC and PCGS are into them.


    THE ICG fought ROME in five wars and was said to be the Alexander the Great from Turkey.

    The NGC was a tribe that fought Julius Caesar in England where I suspect this little dittie was unearthed. Celtic they loved to make disjointed horse type things huge 100 YARDS wide on English hills in CHALK formations!

    Many thought they were backwards and could not copy the PHILLIPIS GOLD coins of before Alexander the Great's DAD - correctly - that is dead wrong - these CELTICS were like their ancient fore-bearers from Thrace (TIRAS: Noah's Grandson who was the god of War THOR! His father was Japeth Noah's son who was worshiped as the god NEPTUNE or JUPITUR (Roman god and Greek god on coins); and I believe (although still researching) that Noah was probably worshiped as ASSUR or the head god of the Assyrians which is morphed into Islamic Allah today). Noah's son Cush founded the Egyptians. As they said they came from the gods. The horse was a war animal.

    War to them was a way of adventure.

    http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&h...w=1672&bih=834

    Read Rev. 2 where I believe that the Church of Pergamas was NAMED as the seat of SATAN. There they had the huge ten time life bust of Jupiter which the Germans removed and it is in Berlin now. Hitler used to preach from it to start the slaughter of the Jews in Berlin. St. Paul was told not to preach in Turkey and to head to Greece to Phillipi. Talk about going full circle, right?



    see here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uffington_White_Horse
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 88BCGreek.jpg   55BCGaul-England.jpg  

    Last edited by HistoryStudent; 07-02-2011 at 04:21 PM.
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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    Quote Originally Posted by Foxwoods Man View Post
    You'll probably get good grades...just don't try to sell them.....
    This is gonna be done mainly to get them out of the raw where these coins are a tough sell without the mint packaging, which I do not have. One of them is a '95-W ASE which no one wants to touch unless it's graded, cannot blame them since its not a cheap coin. I will be surprised if ICG gives it a PR70. Grading through ICG looks to be less hassle and is definitely less costly than the big boys so I thought I'd give it a shot.

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    For accuracy, NGC.

    For marketability (for some odd reason), PCGS.

    I can't stand PCGS holders.

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    HistoryStudent (07-02-2011)

  48. Post #34

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    Quote Originally Posted by hernancortes View Post
    This is gonna be done mainly to get them out of the raw where these coins are a tough sell without the mint packaging, which I do not have. One of them is a '95-W ASE which no one wants to touch unless it's graded, cannot blame them since its not a cheap coin. I will be surprised if ICG gives it a PR70. Grading through ICG looks to be less hassle and is definitely less costly than the big boys so I thought I'd give it a shot.
    I never thought about it that way but you are 100% right.

    Nobody thinks about buying coins over couple of grand without some type of grading especially NGC or PCGS.

    Anyway, I NEVER would.

    Guarantee and all - kinda like buying with a credit card for extra insurance in case things go south and you end up with the short end of the stick.

    S.O.L. so to speak - $hit Out of LUCK!

    Funny how we a$$ume - (a$$ out of U & me) THAT everyone thinks like we do when they really do not never have and never will - and have many different models so-to-speak.
    Be careful out there; IT is a jungle.

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    Quote Originally Posted by Not Sure View Post
    For accuracy, NGC.

    For marketability (for some odd reason), PCGS.

    I can't stand PCGS holders.

    They give the appearance of transparency for you simply CAN see through them.

    Otherwise NGC & ANACS has them beat hands down...


    However:
    I must have four or five different types of NGC slabs - they change them every few years.

    ANACS years ago was a LOT smaller also - I re-did them all into the NEW slicker version.

    They have different colors for a re-do and a new one AT ANACS.
    Be careful out there; IT is a jungle.

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    Got my grades back from ICG and they were pretty strict. My '95-W didn't even get PR69 and my other coin, also a modern, they said was cleaned.

  51. Post #37

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    Quote Originally Posted by hernancortes View Post
    Got my grades back from ICG and they were pretty strict. My '95-W didn't even get PR69 and my other coin, also a modern, they said was cleaned.
    A few months ago I sent in 8 coins to PCGS. They gave my FIRST FLIGHT $10 Gold a PF66. I almost fell over. It did not go too well with my MS70 pair.

    The two spouses came back fine MS70 and a MS69. WHEW!

    So I'll soon crack it out with my 80 pound vise and trusty towel - and that quick slow HACKSAW with the new blade.



    I LOVE NGC.




    ANACS is tough on gold too I sent in about 10 old 20 Franc Napoleons pieces from 1810 to 1812 - I bought them because they were really old to me. try to the USA gold pieces around $2.50 from the early 1800s.


    I've got several ICGs they always do a fine job too.

    From "630 some" years ago Not Bad, right? Imagine a CITY STATE founding from Attila the HUN in 440 A.D. chasing them into the Med - and lasting until Napoleon beat them in 1797.

    1350 plus years - not too bad.

    Bottom one is Attila the HUN pay-off money that why it's in fair shape.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1368Italyobs.jpg   1795Italy.jpg  

    441Roman.jpg  
    Last edited by HistoryStudent; 07-28-2011 at 11:39 PM.
    Be careful out there; IT is a jungle.

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    Buck (07-29-2011)

  53. Post #38

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    Thanks for the catch-up.
    I have had a few come back from PCGS as "cleaned".
    They sure did not look cleaned to me but I am not going to resubmit them...
    TPG is not for everyone and each company has their own niche' if you will.
    DYODD and continue enjoying numismatics...
    We all need to have customers and friends when it comes time to sell/trade!



    EDIT:
    MS from 1570+ years ago...now that is nice!
    Last edited by Buck; 07-29-2011 at 12:13 AM.

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  55. Post #39

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    Default Re: Grading service rating;NGC ANACS ICG etc

    If you are not on a REGISTRY - and even if you are on one - as many of my coins are too old to qualify -

    I suggest after PCGS & NGC (the offensive A team) of course:

    ANACS & ICG (as first class authentications the defensive A team)

    My wife graduated from the University of Alabama "Go Crimson TIDE!" (Tuscaloosa )

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Al..._football_team
    Be careful out there; IT is a jungle.

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