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Thread: Istanbul Gold Refinery bars

  1. Post #1

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    Default Istanbul Gold Refinery bars

    I was looking around on ebay tonight at bullion gold bars and saw alot of bars from Istanbul Gold Refinery. I never heard of this out fit before.

    Are these worth picking up or should I stick to more established names?

    I did pick up my first gold today at the coin shop. Exciting stuff.


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    Default Re: Istanbul Gold Refinery bars

    Turkish gold tends to be .995 instead of .999, other than that, I buy it when the price is right.
    You better keep on truckin...or a bus is gonna run over your ass...

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    Default Re: Istanbul Gold Refinery bars

    Istanbul Refinery bars are a great buy and a long established mint. Gold is gold so hunt for the best price as always.

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  7. Post #4

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    Default Re: Istanbul Gold Refinery bars

    Quote Originally Posted by latemetal View Post
    Turkish gold tends to be .995 instead of .999, other than that, I buy it when the price is right.
    Good point, some of the bars I've seen are .995. Need to take a close look.

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    Default Re: Istanbul Gold Refinery bars

    Quote Originally Posted by wischeese View Post
    Good point, some of the bars I've seen are .995. Need to take a close look.
    There was a bunch of small gold bars that were encased in a credit card size plastic card called chipgold a while ago, and they were .995 like latemetal mentioned.

    I forgot about them, they were popular around 3 years ago.

    Good catch late, my TY button disappeared.

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    Default Re: Istanbul Gold Refinery bars

    theyre legit, as long as they're not plated copies.

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    Default Re: Istanbul Gold Refinery bars

    GOLD coins:

    AGE
    Maples
    Krugs
    Mexican
    Sovereigns
    Nuggets

    ONLY (because) sooner or later you have to sell them.
    Be careful out there; IT is a jungle.

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    Default Re: Istanbul Gold Refinery bars

    995 shouldn't make a difference. at least it didn't when I sold a couple to apmex a while back.

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    Default Re: Istanbul Gold Refinery bars

    Congrats on your first gold buy!

    But beware, you may find yourself laying awake at night thinking about your next purchase....You will soon understand all the people from history who ever went crazy trying to get more gold.

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    Default Re: Istanbul Gold Refinery bars

    The hallmark "essayeur fondeur" is the highest in the world, there are different kinds. It's on Pamp, Credit Suisse, Valcambi, Metalor etc.
    LBMA recognised and truly international.

    My opinion is usually gold is gold, but you should be selective. Personally I've avoid Istanbul, Chinese and other stuff. Stick with more recognised stuff at low premiums (there's enough around still).
    Condemnation without investigation is the highest form of ignorance.

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    Default Re: Istanbul Gold Refinery bars

    There are apparently only two Turkish Associate members of the LBMA and neither is "Istanbul Gold Refinery".

    Turkey Istanbul Gold Exchange T: +90 212 292 6600

    F: +90 212 292 6618 Rihtim Cad No 231
    Karakoy
    34425 Istanbul



    Kuveyt Türk Katilim Bankasi A.Ş. T: +90 212 354 1111

    F: +90 212 354 7508 Buyukdere Caddesi No.123/1
    Esentepe
    34394 Istanbul
    http://www.lbma.org.uk/pages/index.c...tle=associates
    "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do."
    Benjamin Franklin

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    Default Re: Istanbul Gold Refinery bars

    Istanbul Mint products are cheaper for a reason. They might be real, but their resaleability will be more difficulty. I won't buy them, for example. Wasn't there some issue with Goldas products (also from Turkey, e.g., ChipGold) in recent years, regarding overstated purity?

    Stick with a real European or American refiner, if you want bars. But keep in mind the serial numbers on them track both ways. That's why coins are better.

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    Default Re: Istanbul Gold Refinery bars

    Quote Originally Posted by Oz Waver View Post
    The hallmark "essayeur fondeur" is the highest in the world.
    Really? The French words for assayer & founder (one who casts metals [as in] a foundry) are a hallmark? The 'highest in the world'? Really?

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    Default Re: Istanbul Gold Refinery bars

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Shiny View Post
    Really? The French words for assayer & founder (one who casts metals [as in] a foundry) are a hallmark? The 'highest in the world'? Really?
    Well, that's what the man said! I wonder if he knows wtf he's talking about? He sure was giving the Perth Mint hell a while ago!

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    Default Re: Istanbul Gold Refinery bars

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Shiny View Post
    Really? The French words for assayer & founder (one who casts metals [as in] a foundry) are a hallmark? The 'highest in the world'? Really?
    Yes. Really.
    http://www.lbma.org.uk/pages/index.cfm?page_id=29

    Swiss gold is arguably the most respected and recognised in the world. This hallmark is good on pretty much all world exchanges and recognised universally, it is IMHO unrivalled, Johnson Matthey is second. I've included the LBMA link. There are a few varieties of this assay mark depending on the fabricator.

    Perth Mint is also on the list.

    You'll find many fabricators that aren't.

    Would you care to share your thoughts? Do you dispute this or have an issue with it?
    Condemnation without investigation is the highest form of ignorance.

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    Default Re: Istanbul Gold Refinery bars

    What about these guys, united precious metals refinery in NY. They make and sell a four 9's gold ounce bar.

    http://www.unitedpmr.com/gold_bars.php

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    Default Re: Istanbul Gold Refinery bars

    A hallmark is a "maker mark". "essayeur fondeur" is a statement of their business or profession.

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    Default Re: Istanbul Gold Refinery bars

    Quote Originally Posted by jogslvr View Post
    What about these guys, united precious metals refinery in NY. They make and sell a four 9's gold ounce bar.

    http://www.unitedpmr.com/gold_bars.php
    They have been around for a long time. I've heard they may make the jump to being a "good delivery" refinery.

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    Default Re: Istanbul Gold Refinery bars

    Quote Originally Posted by Gcubed View Post
    A hallmark is a "maker mark". "essayeur fondeur" is a statement of their business or profession.
    We can call it a stamp, but seeing you want to be pedantic about it...

    1hall·mark noun \ˈhȯl-ˌmärk\
    1
    a : an official mark stamped on gold and silver articles in England to attest their purity
    b : a mark or device placed or stamped on an article of trade to indicate origin, purity, or genuineness

    Your response?
    Condemnation without investigation is the highest form of ignorance.

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    Default Re: Istanbul Gold Refinery bars

    A bit of clarity.

    A "hallmark" is the makers "signature", so to speak.

    A "quality mark" is a statement of purity.

    "essayeur fondeur" is neither.

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    Default Re: Istanbul Gold Refinery bars

    Quote Originally Posted by Gcubed View Post
    A bit of clarity.

    A "hallmark" is the makers "signature", so to speak.

    A "quality mark" is a statement of purity.

    "essayeur fondeur" is neither.
    Your really pushing this one up hill just to be argumentative. And I think your wrong.

    Here's a link from people that should know.

    http://www.valcambi.com/products/castbars.asp

    Why Valcambi for cast bars?
    The assayer stamp is a guarantee of the quality of Swiss workmanship. It guarantees the most sought after bars in the world, desired by precious metals connoisseurs and investors alike.
    Condemnation without investigation is the highest form of ignorance.

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    Default Re: Istanbul Gold Refinery bars

    Quote Originally Posted by Oz Waver View Post
    Your really pushing this one up hill just to be argumentative. And I think your wrong.

    Here's a link from people that should know.

    http://www.valcambi.com/products/castbars.asp

    Why Valcambi for cast bars?
    The assayer stamp is a guarantee of the quality of Swiss workmanship. It guarantees the most sought after bars in the world, desired by precious metals connoisseurs and investors alike.
    I'm just stating the truth of the matter. The "assayer stamp" is the "hallmark". Go back to class. Have a good day!

    'cubed

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    Default Re: Istanbul Gold Refinery bars

    Quote Originally Posted by Gcubed View Post
    I'm just stating the truth of the matter. The "assayer stamp" is the "hallmark". Go back to class. Have a good day!

    'cubed
    Really???
    I provided you with a definition, links to LBMA, and a quote that meets the definition. I deal with metals and dealers daily.

    Go back to class...? you've been well and truly corrected here and you clearly and unmistakably wrong.

    I will remain polite on the matter. As I said you can call it a stamp if you like (though it is clearly defined as a hallmark), it's importance clear and paramount, it is the guarantee on the bar.

    Further,
    In hallmarks.... You have a purity mark, a makers mark, a date mark etc. It is not solely a "makers mark" as the definition clears shows.
    Condemnation without investigation is the highest form of ignorance.

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    Default Re: Istanbul Gold Refinery bars

    Quote Originally Posted by Oz Waver View Post

    Swiss gold is arguably the most respected and recognised in the world.
    The hallmark "essayeur fondeur" is the highest in the world
    So, let me get this straight, Swiss gold is tops....as long as it says 'Essayeur Fondeur'......but, but, but, the Swiss Company Argor Heraeus SA says 'Melter Assayer'.....so it's crap in your book?
    Or for that matter, the Spanish company SEMP (Sociedad Española de Metales Preciosos) which marks their product with 'Fundidores Afinadores' (founders refiners in Spanish) their product is of lower quality in your eyes as well?
    What about Rand Refinery product? No assayer/founder mark, just a springbok and some English words, must not even be real gold.

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    Default Re: Istanbul Gold Refinery bars

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Shiny View Post
    So, let me get this straight, Swiss gold is tops....as long as it says 'Essayeur Fondeur'......but, but, but, the Swiss Company Argor Heraeus SA says 'Melter Assayer'.....so it's crap in your book?
    Or for that matter, the Spanish company SEMP (Sociedad Española de Metales Preciosos) which marks their product with 'Fundidores Afinadores' (founders refiners in Spanish) their product is of lower quality in your eyes as well?
    What about Rand Refinery product? No assayer/founder mark, just a springbok and some English words, must not even be real gold.
    He knows it all Mr. Shiny. The guy deals with them all on a daily basis. We should just shut up.

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    Default Re: Istanbul Gold Refinery bars

    Quote Originally Posted by Oz Waver View Post
    Here's a link from people that should know.

    http://www.valcambi.com/products/castbars.asp

    Why Valcambi for cast bars?
    The assayer stamp is a guarantee of the quality of Swiss workmanship. It guarantees the most sought after bars in the world, desired by precious metals connoisseurs and investors alike.
    Yep, they should know, and I'm pretty darn sure PepsiCo & Coca-Cola, would say the same about their water products. They are the same thing, but "Mine is better"

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    Default Re: Istanbul Gold Refinery bars

    Quote Originally Posted by Oz Waver View Post
    We can call it a stamp, but seeing you want to be pedantic about it...

    1hall·mark noun \ˈhȯl-ˌmärk\
    1
    a : an official mark stamped on gold and silver articles in England to attest their purity
    b : a mark or device placed or stamped on an article of trade to indicate origin, purity, or genuineness

    Your response?
    My response.
    A hallmark is a logo, a way of distiguishing your product, nothing more. Registered artwork.
    The black circle surrounding the white & blue 90° segments containing the letters B M W is the manufacturers hallmark, not an indication of quality. That's what the series number is for.
    Just like the toe nail clipping is Nike's hallmark.
    Or the three arrows/three circles is Beretta's hallmark.

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    Default Re: Istanbul Gold Refinery bars

    Just like the toe nail clipping is Nike's hallmark.........
    ............


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Default Re: Istanbul Gold Refinery bars

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Shiny View Post
    So, let me get this straight, Swiss gold is tops....as long as it says 'Essayeur Fondeur'......but, but, but, the Swiss Company Argor Heraeus SA says 'Melter Assayer'.....so it's crap in your book?
    I've never suggested or stated it was 'crap'. You are attempting to put words in my mouth by the use of a 'comparative deletion' that I reject and is clearly false. This is a rather pathetic and childish method of trying to grasp at straws that aren't there.

    What I said was that it was arguably the most recognised and universally accepted hallmark (See post #15), which again you and your partner in crime is saying must be a makers mark and nothing else.
    The very point being as I stated in my original post in this thread normally I say 'gold is gold' however there are more recognisable brands so although Istanbul refinery's gold may be 9999 'pure' the Suisse is arguably more 'recognised' and IMO higher, this does not mean less pure. (continued below)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Shiny View Post
    Or for that matter, the Spanish company SEMP (Sociedad Española de Metales Preciosos) which marks their product with 'Fundidores Afinadores' (founders refiners in Spanish) their product is of lower quality in your eyes as well?
    What about Rand Refinery product? No assayer/founder mark, just a springbok and some English words, must not even be real gold.
    I was sure you were going to use this line of logic.
    So for the dummies... (as you guys are clearly here to argue with me)
    I am the one that included the link to the LBMA with good delivery providers. ALL these providers have accredited bars. ALL these bars are required to meet the standards. ALL bars should meet/be technically be as 'good' as one another. No doubt.

    However as I stated earlier some bars have higher recognition value and confidence level, I should specifically say in the retail market (as this is the context I am speaking on). I would argue that Perth Mint, Heraeus, Rand, and the Suisse "essayeur fondeur" stamps from Pamp et al. have a higher 'recognition' than that of the Spanish SEMP. This does not make the product itself inferior in anyway. Also on this point the Suisse bars are of the highest standard and that does not mean others are not on par. Johnson Matthey for example would have IMO the second most recognisable brand/acceptance etc. universally.

    Also you'll find I have in other posts spoken about the Perth Mint having the highest quality bullion products. Does this mean that Perth Mint is better than Pamp, no, IMO they are on par. You can argue which one you prefer and why or which one is more recognised/acceptance or attracts the greatest premium in the context of a particular locale and why.... etc. etc.

    I would argue if you took a 1 oz gold Pamp Sussie Bar and a 1 oz gold Spanish SEMP Bar (if they make one) and travelled around the world, the Pamp bar would attract the greatest premium and be more recognised/accepted. Do you disagree or are all equally accepted in the retail world (where the majority of the world buy)?

    Again, I object to your repeated characterisation of my comments. Perhaps you should re-read them to get the 'flavour' of the message I am conveying. Now do you want to give it a rest?

    One more time, here is the EXACT definition of Hallmark:

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hallmark

    1hall·mark noun \ˈhȯl-ˌmärk\
    1
    a : an official mark stamped on gold and silver articles in England to attest their purity
    b : a mark or device placed or stamped on an article of trade to indicate origin, purity, or genuineness

    http://www.google.com.au/search?clie...w=1440&bih=780

    A hallmark is an official mark or series of marks struck on items made of precious metals -- platinum, gold, silver and in some nations, palladium. In a more general sense, the term '''' can also be used to refer to any distinguishing characteristic or trait.
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallmark

    The mark or marks designating that a piece of metalwork has received an official approval of quality.
    www.galerieversailles.com/page56.html

    A mark stamped or laser-engraved by a country's assay office indicating the quality of the precious metal tested (eg, "Sterling," ".925," ".840," ".800," or an image of a "rampant lion"—as used in Great Britian).
    www.silversmithing.com/glossary.htm

    'Essayeur Fondeur' is the guarantee mark providing 'genuineness', 'official approval of quality' etc. as stated by the Sussie manufacturer (link provided above).

    Please stand corrected.
    Last edited by Oz Waver; 06-20-2011 at 08:07 PM. Reason: grammar
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