Put freeze dried foods in the freezer?!??!?

[RunningScared]

Howdy all,

I have an unconventional question.... I was thinking about the thousands of dollars I'm putting into food prep, and how food lasts much longer at colder temps.... as described in the table, here: http://survivalacres.com/information/shelflife.html

Well, unfortunately, I don't have a nice cool basement to store stuff in. And I'd hate to spend thousands of dollars every 5 years or so, replacing the majority of my stash.

SO... I was thinking: My mom has a large chest freezer she would like to sell....

I was considering putting my most sensitive food items in there, such as freeze dried and dehydrated fruits/vegetables, mostly (in #10 cans). But maybe other things too (powdered milk, powdered eggs, potatoes flakes, pasta, etc).

Do you see any problems with putting #10 cans of freeze dried or dehydrated foods in there? Will get they freezer burn?

Aside from canned goods, which I'm not planning on using for long term food storage, is there anything I shouldn't put in the freezer for extremely LONG periods?

Thanks a ton,

-Nathan

[TnAndy]

Long as it's freeze dried or dehydrated, no problem......but understand you're gonna pay a pretty good "storage fee" in the form of a power bill for it.

You might want to use an auxilary thermostat, ( SEE THEM HERE ), that will use a WHOLE lot less power if all you plan to do is stuff the whole thing full of long term cans. You can set the dial for 35-40 degrees, beat almost ANY basement, and save a lot on power. Food kept at that temp range will probably outlast you.

No real need to pull them on down to zero, and the added bonuses are:

1. You could store some "wet" canned foods.....like common, off the store shelf stuff, since you'd be refrigerating, not freezing.

2. You freezer would likely last a lot longer, since it would not have to work near as hard.

[RunningScared]

Whoa! Sweet man, thanks. I thought my question was too weird to get an answer. heh.

Yeah, I was thinking if there was a way to set the temp of the chest freezer so that it was more like a fridge, that would be awesome. That external device you linked to sounds like the ticket. I'm assuming that device regulates power to the freezer to keep it in the right temp range.

Do you think a chest freezer will have moisture problems/condensation (inside), controlled like this?

[RunningScared]

Found the answer to my question about condensation here: http://mtbest.net/chest_fridge_1.pdf

In practical household use I found that the
condensed water collected at the bottom of the
chest fridge needs to be sponged out every 2-to-3
months to maintain hygiene and functionality.

Hmmm... could be worth the maintenance though.

[TnAndy]

Whoa! Sweet man, thanks. I thought my question was too weird to get an answer. heh.

No, actually it's a pretty novel solution to storage that most people wouldn't think of. If it was just weird, I wouldn't have wasted my time

Yeah, I was thinking if there was a way to set the temp of the chest freezer so that it was more like a fridge, that would be awesome. That external device you linked to sounds like the ticket. I'm assuming that device regulates power to the freezer to keep it in the right temp range.

Do you think a chest freezer will have moisture problems/condensation (inside), controlled like this?

Correct....the external thermostat cuts the power to the freezer at the plug in point when the pre-set temp you dial in is reached. These are used by beer brewers for "cold brewing" I gather, but also prep folks for building an ultra low watt/hour fridge using a small freezer as the base unit. Armed Peasant ( search his posts ) did a study on the watt/hrs needed to do this about 6-9 months back. I lent him one of my thermostats and a kilowatt hour meter to do it. What I think he found was about 200watt/hrs/day on a 9cuft freezer kept at about 35-40.....but that included regular opening/closing.....partially full, etc. IF you loaded it full, and rarely opened it, you'd probably get 300/watt hours on a 15-19cu/ft model ( assuming it's a newer one with foam insulation ). That's 1/3kw/hr/day, or about 4-6 cents day, depending on what your power rates run.


On condensation: It's a product of warmer, moist air being introduced into/onto a cold surface.

I assume this is NOT a freezer you're gonna access on a regular basis, right ? Weight the lid down with cinder blocks so the gasket is squeezed tight....maybe even duct tape around the seal. Put an aluminum pie pan of dessicant crystals ( obtain at a craft store...."Flower Drying Crystals" ) in with it, and that will suck up any residual moisture for quite a while.....check it in a few months, replace the crystal with a new batch, and cook the moisture off the original batch in a low heat oven, and stick 'em in a tight sealed jar for the next check.....repeat as needed.

Also, I'd probably avoid any cardboard boxes/stuff in paper wrapping in there.....it acts like a big sponge, holding moisture, rusting cans.

Might want to invest in a cheap Radio shack humidity gauge and keep it in there or taped to the outside with the probe inside ( cut the gasket, silicone caulk the wire and cut back. ) That way you could tell at a glance from outside when it's time to change out the pie pan of dessicant.

IF you do go thru with this, report back with pics and all....make a real good "prep" thread project, for sure.

Buy yourself a Kil-a-watt meter to record power use and do a good study here. The meter runs about 25 bucks or so ( Google them ), and there's plenty of other uses for it around you house when it comes to energy savings and alternative power.......first pc of equipment I recommend people buy.

[RunningScared]

Dude; AWESOME idea with the desiccant crystals! I love it.

I already have a kill-a-watt just sitting around, so that would be no problem.

The only possible remaining issue, is this thread I came across on a HVAC forum: http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=78784. Someone was saying that the compressor is "suction gas cooled" on a freezer and that could be a problem due to "heavy start loads and lack of cooling with high compressor temps".

I'm not really convinced that would be a problem in reality though. It doesn't sound like it will be coming on very frequently.

I think it's a worth while experiment. My mom only wants about $150 for the freezer and the Freezer Tamer is ~$70. I might want to get an external thermostat and humidity reader too. So, figure, around $300 all total to help keep my food cache in optimal condition. I'm leaning towards doing it, especially if I can fit as much stuff in there as I think I can.

[TnAndy]

The only possible remaining issue, is this thread I came across on a HVAC forum: http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=78784. Someone was saying that the compressor is "suction gas cooled" on a freezer and that could be a problem due to "heavy start loads and lack of cooling with high compressor temps".

.

The problem you run into with a fridge or a freezer is they are designed to run in a "normal" environment.....say 60-90 degrees.

IF you try to run one kept in an outside, unheated shed in, say, Northern Michigan, the gas temps can get so low as to lock the compressor as it tries to start. The other extreme would be a garage in Phoenix in July. Using R-22 gas ( which many do ), the "head" pressure on the gas can get so high, it will also lock the compressor. Having a rotary compressor vs. a piston helps solve these issues, but I'd imagine most cheapy home appliances use piston compressors.

Bottom line....unless you plan to hit some real extremes where the freezer unit is stored, I wouldn't worry about it.

that's it...I'm done for the night...

[RunningScared]

Dang man, refrigeration skills too?! Is there anything you DON'T know?! heh = )

This chest freezer has been on my mom's back porch for around 10 years, and so far so good. I'd probably just keep it there (and pay her for the electricity); so no change in environment. She's also had a upright freezer on the back porch for about 15 years and it's doing well too. She lives in western Washington at sea level, so it can get pretty hot and pretty cold at times, but not usually too extreme for too long.

If it hasn't been a problem yet, it doesn't sound like it would become a problem after converting the chest freezer to a fridge, right?

[TnAndy]

Is there anything you DON'T know?

Actually, and I rarely confess to this, there are a LOT of things I don't know.

Fortunately, I DO have the skill to BS my way thru most of them.......ahahahaaaaaa....

Doesn't sound like it would be a problem with the freezer on mom's porch.

[ttazzman]

most knowledge comes from trial and error .........been there done that

[RunningScared]

OK

I'm all setup to do this.

I've got the desiccant crystals, the thing to convert the freezer to a fridge, and a temperature and humidity reader from Radio Shack, so I can monitor things externally.

Only thing I'm not sure about is how much humidity is OK....??

Thanks.

[TnAndy]

My guess is you'd want to keep it 30% or so lower than the outside humidity......so if you're running 60% outside, shoot for 30 inside, and so on. But that's a guess, based on what I see in my wood dry kiln.

[RunningScared]

All I really need is to keep the #10 cans from rusting, or whatever, right?

[TnAndy]

Right..................

[Joseph]

I'm in the market for a freezer now. Great info and good ideas - thanks

I ran down this video from CR. A lot of good advice.
I was looking on craigs list, but now maybe I should look at newer energy efficient models


Getting started

Most freezers aren't about style. They look similar to models we tested decades ago, but they use less energy. And Energy Star models must be even more efficient.

Before you go shopping for a freezer, decide whether a chest freezer or an upright freezer would better meet your needs. Then choose a model based on size, capacity, and energy efficiency.
Locaion, location

If you plan to keep the freezer in a living area, consider how noisy it is. Most manufacturers say that their freezers can operate in a room where the temperature is from 32 degree to 110 degrees Fahrenheit, though they also indicate that spaces colder than 32 degrees F will not affect freezer operation. If you plan to house the freezer in an unheated area, such as a garage, adhere to the manufacturer's specified operating range.
Sizing your model

Freezers, whether chest or upright, come in four basic sizes: compact (5 cubic feet), small (6 to 9 cubic feet), medium (12 to 18 cubic feet), and large (more than 18 cubic feet). Your choice should depend on available space and family needs.
Weigh blackout performance

Most manufacturers say that their freezers can keep food adequately frozen for 24 hours with the power off, as long as the freezer remains unopened. But our tests simulating a prolonged power failure revealed significant differences. Some uprights allowed a relatively large increase in temperature after only nine hours.
Manual vs. self-defrosting

Most of the freezers in our tests maintained a consistent temperature. Manual-defrost uprights were the exception. Without fans to circulate cold air, temperatures of on-door shelves were between 9 and 19 degrees higher than in the rest of the freezer. Most self-defrosting uprights excelled in temperature performance. Their shelves and bins make it easier to organize and find food, but they reduce usable space. Manual-defrost freezers are generally more energy efficient and quieter than self-defrosting models. But defrosting can take hours.
Keeping food from spoiling

Most of the chests and self-defrosting uprights we tested delivered impressive temperature performance, maintaining 0 degrees F quite evenly throughout their interior. But all of the manual-defrost upright models had trouble keeping their door shelves as cool as the rest of the interior.

Any frozen food that has reached temperatures above 40 degrees for more than two hours should be discarded. For guidelines on frozen-food safety, read the freezing and food safety guidelines from the Department of Agriculture and our advice on freezing foods.
Energy use

Don't expect your new freezer to be quite as energy efficient as its yellow EnergyGuide label implies. On average, our latest tested models used 17 percent more energy. That's because our tests are tougher and, we believe, more like real-world conditions than those specified by the U.S. Department of Energy. We fill the freezers to capacity, whereas they're only 75 percent full in the DOE test. And we test for energy use with the center of the freezer actually at 0 degrees, the optimum temperature for storing frozen food, while manufacturers are allowed to extrapolate energy use at 0 degrees from test results above and below zero. Except for Energy Star products, the information on the labels relies on manufacturers' test data.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/f...ying-guide.htm