Gold Is Money -- Gold is Money -  The Premier Gold and Silver Forum -- Goldismoney Gold Is Money -- Gold is Money -  The Premier Gold and Silver Forum -- Goldismoney
[Most Recent Quotes from www.kitco.com]
Welcome Guest, is this your first visit?
Register today to gain access to all of our features which include creating topics, replying back to posts, private messaging and much more!

What are you waiting for?
Already Joined?
Sign into your account now
Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: The rise and fall of bitcoin:

  1. Post #1

    #1
    Admin/Running Bear Scorpio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    8,138
    Thanks
    981
    Thanked 5,911 Times in 2,537 Posts

    Default The rise and fall of bitcoin:

    The rise and fall of bitcoin: Inside the virtual currency you can actually spend
    By Benjamin Wallace
    12 December 11
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	BC.jpg 
Views:	289 
Size:	68.2 KB 
ID:	13713
    This article was taken from the January 2012 issue of Wired magazine. Be the first to read Wired's articles in print before they're posted online, and get your hands on loads of additional content by subscribing online.

    On November 1, 2008, a man named Satoshi Nakamoto posted a research paper to an obscure cryptography listserv describing his design for a new digital currency that he called bitcoin. None of the list's veterans had heard of him, and what little information could be gleaned was murky and contradictory. In an online profile, he said he lived in Japan. His email address was from a free German service. Google searches for his name turned up no relevant information; it was clearly a pseudonym. But while Nakamoto himself may have been a puzzle, his creation cracked a problem that had stumped cryptographers for decades. The idea of digital money -- convenient and untraceable, liberated from the oversight of governments and banks -- had been a hot topic since the birth of the internet. Cypher-punks, the 90s movement of libertarian cryptographers, dedicated themselves to the project. Yet every effort to create virtual cash had foundered. Ecash, an anonymous system launched in the early 90s by cryptographer David Chaum, failed in part because it depended on the existing infrastructures of government and credit-card companies. Other proposals followed -- bit gold, RPOW, b-money -- but none had got off the ground.

    One of the core challenges of designing a digital currency involves something called the double-spending problem. If a digital dollar is just information, free from the corporeal strictures of paper and metal, what's to prevent people from copying and pasting it as easily as a chunk of text, "spending" it as many times as they want? The conventional answer involved using a central clearing house to keep a real-time ledger of all transactions. The ledger prevents fraud, but it also requires a trusted third party to administer it.

    Bitcoin did away with the third party by publicly distributing the ledger, what Nakamoto called the "block chain". Users willing to devote CPU power to running special software would be called miners and would form a network to maintain the block chain collectively. In the process, they would also generate new currency. Transactions would be broadcast to the network, and computers with the software would compete to solve irreversible cryptographic puzzles that contain data from several transactions. The first to solve each puzzle would be awarded 50 new bitcoins, and the associated block of transactions would be added to the chain. The difficulty of each puzzle would increase with the number of miners, keeping production to one block of transactions about every ten minutes. Also, the size of each block bounty would halve every 210,000 blocks -- first from 50 bitcoins to 25, then from 25 to 12.5 and so on. Around the year 2140, the currency would reach its pre-ordained limit of 21 million bitcoins.

    When Nakamoto's paper came out in 2008, trust in the ability of governments and banks to manage the economy and the money supply was at its nadir. The US government was throwing dollars at Wall Street and the Detroit car companies. Many central banks in the west were introducing "quantitative easing", essentially printing money in order to stimulate the economy. The price of gold was rising. Bitcoin required no faith in the politicians or financiers who had wrecked the economy -- just in Nakamoto's elegant algorithms. Not only did bitcoin's public ledger seem to protect against fraud, but the predetermined release of the digital currency kept the bitcoin money supply growing at a predictable rate, immune to printing-press-happy central bankers and Weimar-style hyperinflation.

    Nakamoto himself mined the first 50 bitcoins -- which came to be called the genesis block -- on January 3, 2009. For a year or so, his creation remained the province of a tiny group of early adopters. But slowly, word of bitcoin spread beyond the insular world of cryptography. It has won accolades from some of digital currency's greatest minds. Wei Dai, inventor of b-money, calls it "very significant"; Nick Szabo, who created bit gold, hails bitcoin as "a great contribution to the world"; and Hal Finney, the eminent cryptographer behind RPOW, says it's "potentially world-changing". The Electronic Frontier Foundation, an advocate for digital privacy, eventually started accepting donations in the alternative currency.

    The small band of early bitcoiners all shared the communitarian spirit of an open-source-software project. Gavin Andresen, a coder in New England, bought 10,000 bitcoins for $50 (£32) and created a site called the Bitcoin Faucet, where he gave them away for the hell of it. Laszlo Hanyecz, a Florida programmer, conducted what bitcoiners think of as the first real-world bitcoin transaction, paying 10,000 bitcoins to get two pizzas delivered from Papa John's. (He sent the bitcoins to a volunteer in England, who then made a credit-card order transatlantically.) A farmer in Massachusetts named David Forster began accepting bitcoins as payment for alpaca socks.

    The faithful tried to solve the mystery of the man they called simply Satoshi. On a bitcoin IRC channel, someone noted portentously that in Japanese Satoshi means "wise". Someone else wondered whether the name might be a sly portmanteau of four tech companies: SAmsung, TOSHIba, NAKAmichi and MOTOrola. It seemed doubtful that Nakamoto was even Japanese. His English had the flawless, idiomatic ring of a native speaker. Perhaps, it was suggested, Nakamoto wasn't one man but a mysterious group with an inscrutable purpose.

    "I exchanged some emails with whoever Satoshi supposedly is," says Hanyecz, who was on bitcoin's core developer team for a time. "I'd get replies maybe every two weeks, as if someone would check it once in a while. But bitcoin seems awfully well designed for one person to crank out." Nakamoto revealed little about himself, limiting his online utterances to technical discussion of his source code. On December 5, 2010, after bitcoiners started to callfor WikiLeaks to accept bitcoin donations, the normally terse Nakamoto weighed in with uncharacteristic vehemence. "No, don't 'bring it on,'" he wrote in the bitcoin forum. "The project needs to grow gradually so the software can be strengthened along the way. I make this appeal to WikiLeaks not to try to use bitcoin. Bitcoin is a small beta community in its infancy. You would not stand to get more than pocket change, and the heat you would bring would likely destroy us at this stage."

    hen, as unexpectedly as he had appeared, Nakamoto vanished. At 6.22 pm GMT on December 12, seven days after his WikiLeaks plea, he posted his final message to the bitcoin forum. His email responses became erratic, then stopped. Andresen, who had taken over the role of lead developer, was now one of just a few people with whom he still communicated. On April 26, Andresen told fellow coders: "Satoshi did suggest this morning that I (we) should try to de-emphasise the whole 'mysterious founder' thing when talking publicly about bitcoin." Then Nakamoto stopped replying even to Andresen's emails. Bitcoiners wondered plaintively why he had left them. But by then his creation had taken on a life of its own.

    more here guys:
    http://www.wired.co.uk/magazine/arch...all-of-bitcoin

  2. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Scorpio For This Useful Post:

    chris_is_here (12-26-2011), DualCarbon (12-22-2011), Ragnarok (12-22-2011), Usc96 (02-26-2013), voidus (12-26-2011)

  3. Post #2

    #2
    I'd rather be Ragnarok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,586
    Thanks
    3,136
    Thanked 1,562 Times in 856 Posts

    Default Re: The rise and fall of bitcoin:

    Thanks, Scorpio.
    That's a VERY interesting article. I'd heard/read about people using bitcoin, but never was interested in it myself.

    Fiat paper money is bad enough; digital currency is a fiasco that invites disaster. And so it is.

    R.
    "Walk the gold trails of my good friend, do I. On my feet are "strong sole" of thick leather, purchased with much knowledge of physical gold. These shoes not go bare before our journey is done. On trail I see your "thin sole" gold investments cast aside and scavenged by beasts." - ANOTHER (THOUGHTS!) (04/14/01; 18:08:54MT - #: 51887)

    Personal best on calm water: SAE - 32 skips. GAE - 21 skips.

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ragnarok For This Useful Post:

    GodspeedMetals (12-26-2011), Rollie Free (12-22-2011)

  5. Post #3

    #3
    Found a gold nugget Metal Miner
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    296
    Thanks
    54
    Thanked 183 Times in 106 Posts

    Default Re: The rise and fall of bitcoin:

    Bitcoin was and remains an incredibly unique and innovative experiment fusing technology with the very theory of what money is. Whoever came up with the idea is a true genius for, not only thinking of it, but finding a way to put it into practice. Basically what people want is a currency that can't be controlled or manipulated by government. Anyone can create such a currency, but how do you expand the money supply as needed? That's a great problem, Satoshi Nakamoto solved it by mimicking gold and how the supply of gold expands, by mining. Anyone can mine in theory so anyone can create gold money and this creates a level playing ground. Now in reality, you need government permission and have to follow government laws to open a gold mine, this means the playing field isn't really even. Nakamoto changed that by creating a mining system where anyone could participate, but they had to devote time and computing resources (labor and capital) and it would be tougher to create Bitcoins as more and more is mined, thus mimicking a natural limit just like the total amount of gold in the Earth's crust.

    The beauty and genius of this system is what attracted many. I never participated, but I admired the system and the intelligence needed to create it. Unfortunately, it seems that talented hackers are finding new ways to steal bitcoins from others (though if you read the article, much of the personal theft is unconfirmed, it's the exchanges that are the problem). I don't see this as any different from a Jesse James stealing gold money from a bank or train in the old days. Eventually security will improve but it'll never be 100% safe just as banks today are still being robbed.

    I hope the system continues on, it's fascinating, just like Second Life's economy is, but that's a whole other topic.

    Notice how government is already trying to get involved in order to control it.

    US senator Charles Schumer held a press conference, appealing to the DEA and Justice Department to shut down Silk Road, describing bitcoin as "an online form of money laundering".
    It's as much money laundering as gold is or Walmart gift certificates are. I'm not sure how using Bitcoins is money laundering, what illegal activity being used? This makes no sense.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _

    Links and URL advertisements in signatures are not allowed on GIM...

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to azxcvbnm321 For This Useful Post:

    GoldenPoet (02-26-2013), RichG (02-26-2013)

  7. Post #4

    #4
    Gold Member Rollie Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    1,642
    Thanks
    255
    Thanked 782 Times in 434 Posts

    Default Re: The rise and fall of bitcoin:

    Interesting perspective.

    But how can you compare gold with bitcoins? Gold is a tangible commodity. Bitcoins are imaginary. No one is 'mining' value. That it thumbed it's nose at our current system does not automatically qualify it as a good thing.

  8. Post #5

    #5
    Gold Member GodspeedMetals's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,717
    Thanks
    864
    Thanked 533 Times in 359 Posts

    Default Re: The rise and fall of bitcoin:

    If the government does not own or receive its tribute from such a system, it's money laundering, I guess.

    Long Only Physicals

    "Love thy Farmer"

  9. Post #6

    #6
    Gold Member GodspeedMetals's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,717
    Thanks
    864
    Thanked 533 Times in 359 Posts

    Default Re: The rise and fall of bitcoin:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarok View Post
    Fiat paper money is bad enough; digital currency is a fiasco that invites disaster. And so it is.
    God forbid there's a blackout.

    Long Only Physicals

    "Love thy Farmer"

  10. Post #7

    #7
    Gold Member platinumdude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,496
    Thanks
    551
    Thanked 716 Times in 426 Posts

    Default Re: The rise and fall of bitcoin:

    Is bitcoin still kicking?

  11. Post #8

    #8
    Found a gold nugget Metal Miner
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    311
    Thanks
    95
    Thanked 126 Times in 73 Posts

    Default Re: The rise and fall of bitcoin:

    Bitcoin is the most powerful computing network in the world, by far. It's not some minor thing anymore, yes certainly still kicking.

  12. Post #9

    #9
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    629
    Thanks
    66
    Thanked 186 Times in 127 Posts

    Default Re: The rise and fall of bitcoin:

    Fall? What fall?

    The thinking behind Bitcoin has been shown to be pretty solid over the past couple of years. There have been some bitcoin users that have failed to deliver on their commitments, but what does that have to do with Bitcoin itself? You've been scammed for marbles, lunch money, and FRNs too, haven't you?

    As to the flapdoodle over "mining" Bitcoins. I got in early and mined a few. They were "worth" about six cents then, they're worth around seven FRNs today. Not bad! Lots of people got on the bandwagon after that, and today it costs about as much to mine a Bitcoin as it does to buy one -- exactly as planned -- and what is wrong with that? It's a currency that actually has something behind it -- its guaranteed rarity and replacement cost.

    As for the elusive "Satoshi", no one knows of he exists or not. So what? This may be interesting to talk about if you are writing an article for Wired, but as for using Bitcoin as a serious exchange medium, Satoshi's existence is irrelevant.

    Bitcoin is based on math and the laws of nature, and that is much more reliable than having some unknown guys in suits controlling the value of currency.

    .

  13. Post #10

    #10
    Gold Member+ bemac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    3,930
    Thanks
    4,622
    Thanked 2,718 Times in 1,455 Posts

    Default Re: The rise and fall of bitcoin:

    Quote Originally Posted by Rollie Free View Post
    But how can you compare gold with bitcoins?
    Anyone here would of course prefer gold over bitcoin. But it is interesting to some of us because it does share some qualities with gold compared to fiat money. Unlike fiat paper money, and like gold, it takes resources (electricity in this case) to increase the supply of bitcoins. Also, unlike fiat paper money, and like gold, there is a limited supply. It, theoretically speaking, if successful would appreciate in value, unlike the dollar. Over the long run, prices as measured in bitcoin would decrease, unlike what we have today where prices increase as the dollar is devalued. Also, again theoretically speaking, interest rates would be set by the market, rather than by a government or central bank. This is interesting because since interest rates would be decided by the market, it should create a much better balance of savings versus consumption, and with a limited supply of credit, bubbles would be tiny compared to what we have seen under the fiat system. There isn't just one argument to make when one supports the idea of metal as money, and bitcoin is MUCH more like gold compared to fiat paper money. Unfortunately for Bitcoin, it is not physical, and it does not have the thousands of years on record as being perceived as having high value. But to those who support some kind of gold standard, bitcoin's other qualities make it interesting.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to bemac For This Useful Post:

    Jeremiah_Wrong (08-05-2012)

  15. Post #11

    #11
    Banned Metal Miner
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    156
    Thanks
    32
    Thanked 45 Times in 30 Posts

    Default Re: The rise and fall of bitcoin:

    I dislike Bitcoins because they do not meet Aristotle's monetary criteria. They are neither portable in the physical sense, nor durable in that they are beholden to bytes on a server. It is not money in its own right.

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to Skirnir For This Useful Post:

    andial (02-25-2013)

  17. Post #12

    #12
    Found a gold nugget Metal Miner
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    311
    Thanks
    95
    Thanked 126 Times in 73 Posts

    Default Re: The rise and fall of bitcoin:

    Quote Originally Posted by Skirnir View Post
    I dislike Bitcoins because they do not meet Aristotle's monetary criteria. They are neither portable in the physical sense, nor durable in that they are beholden to bytes on a server. It is not money in its own right.
    They seem fairly portable in practicality. Meaning, I can transfer full ownership of them across the world easily. If physical portability is needed, the physical bitbills could be used. http://bitbills.com/ Though less convenient than digital storage.

    Regarding durability, they are beholden to bytes on 'tens of thousands' of distributed servers. This is actually pretty durable through redundancy.

    For a user, I think bitcoins are most vulnerable to hacking. Metaphorically, they are like having a wad of cash in a bad neighborhood. You need to hide (i.e. encrypt) it or store it offline.

  18. Post #13

    #13
    Banned Metal Miner
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    156
    Thanks
    32
    Thanked 45 Times in 30 Posts

    Default Re: The rise and fall of bitcoin:

    Quote Originally Posted by DualCarbon View Post
    They seem fairly portable in practicality. Meaning, I can transfer full ownership of them across the world easily. If physical portability is needed, the physical bitbills could be used. http://bitbills.com/ Though less convenient than digital storage.

    Regarding durability, they are beholden to bytes on 'tens of thousands' of distributed servers. This is actually pretty durable through redundancy.

    For a user, I think bitcoins are most vulnerable to hacking. Metaphorically, they are like having a wad of cash in a bad neighborhood. You need to hide (i.e. encrypt) it or store it offline.
    Bitbills are merely bitcoins with a counterparty, and they are impossible to store offline. All that is necessary for bitcoins to be rendered worthless bytes on a server is for the encryption to be cracked or for the end-user mechanism to be compromised. Volenti fit non injuria.

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to Skirnir For This Useful Post:

    andial (02-25-2013)

  20. Post #14

    #14
    Found a gold nugget Metal Miner
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    311
    Thanks
    95
    Thanked 126 Times in 73 Posts

    Default Re: The rise and fall of bitcoin:

    Will the current US dollar (i.e. no defaults or hyperinflation) or current bitcoin (i.e. no encryption, blockchain, or software breach) effectively be around longer? The next few years should be interesting. There are risks with everything.

  21. Post #15

    #15
    Gold Member Joseph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    south east
    Posts
    1,165
    Thanks
    1,418
    Thanked 888 Times in 449 Posts

    Default Re: The rise and fall of bitcoin:

    The Bitcoin ATM has Arrived…Here’s How it Works

    Ever since WordPress.com (the extremely popular blogging platform and 22nd most popular site on the internet), decided to accept Bitcoin as payment last November the value of Bitcoins versus the U.S. dollar has more than doubled.

    The esoteric crypto-currency continues to gain popularity and technologies to make it even more user friendly are popping up all over the place. The latest is the Bitcoin ATM, which could be a serious game changer for adoption. From CNET:

    NASHUA, N.H. — Zach Harvey has an ambitious plan to accelerate adoption of the Internet’s favorite alternative currency: installing in thousands of bars, restaurants, and grocery stores ATMs that will let you buy Bitcoins anonymously.


    http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2013/02...-how-it-works/

    Full article here:
    http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57...-your-account/

  22. The Following User Says Thank You to Joseph For This Useful Post:

    GoldenPoet (02-26-2013)

  23. Post #16

    #16
    Intergalactic War Lord andial's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    5,421
    Thanks
    3,784
    Thanked 2,599 Times in 1,598 Posts

    Default Re: The rise and fall of bitcoin:

    Basically what people want is a currency that can't be controlled or manipulated by government.
    Dissagree, what most people want (not me) is a currency that can be controlled and manipulated.

  24. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to andial For This Useful Post:

    gringott (02-25-2013), Gun Ban Extremist (02-25-2013)

  25. Post #17

    #17
    Silver Member chris_is_here's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Confederate States of America
    Posts
    551
    Thanks
    464
    Thanked 421 Times in 231 Posts

    Default Re: The rise and fall of bitcoin:

    I started scrounging for small amounts of free bitcoin last fall, just on a lark, as I do not see any real long-term stability in this currency. I started last fall, when the going rate was 1 BTC=$7 or so...at that time, it was fairly easy to find small amounts here and there. Now, only a few months later, the "value" of 1 BTC has risen to $31 and it is very hard to find anything but miniscule payouts anywhere.

    There are only around 11M or so BTC outstanding at this point and the maximum issuable is 21M, which will probably be reached in the next ten years or so, depending on how quickly the remaining 10M BTC can be mined.

    If you do decide to keep some bit coin, make sure you keep your coin in a bitwallet on your own hard drive. Never use Instawallet or one of these other third-party host sites - these are vulnerable to hacking or service interruptions, not to mention there have been a few notable cases of host sites shutting down and walking away with their customers BTC. There is a free downloadable program called Bit-Qt that you can use to set up your own wallet.

    You can trade BTC just as you would any other currency. In fact, some people have done fairly well at it with the big run-up in BTC recently. However, my view on BTC is that it really doesn't have any long-term future for two reasons: (1) the BTC model is simple and re-produceable; there is nothing stopping another programmer from issuing their another version of BTC and, in fact, some already have. No monopoly could ever be established in the digital coin space. (2) there are no controls at all over BTC - what's to stop this Satoshi character from re-appearing tomorrow and announcing to the world that he has encoded another 1 billion BTC for mining?

    BTC suffers from all of the same pitfalls as the USD and has its own unique risks.
    I don't buy the deflationary model for the reason I stated above. BTC is fun to play with, but it will never be any kind of serious investment.
    If We cannot be free, then We must be Separate

  26. Post #18

    #18
    Gold Member+ Unca Walt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    South Floriduh
    Posts
    3,021
    Thanks
    1,228
    Thanked 2,270 Times in 1,067 Posts

    Default Re: The rise and fall of bitcoin:

    BITCOIN

    Brought to you, and cherished by...

    ...the same people who made Beany Babies. <-- BIG money in collecting them, right? This Bitcoin Baby is "worth" $1900.

    Anybody here willing to trade a Panda or Maple Leaf for "Spot -- The Dog Without a Spot"??


    ...the same people who made Pogs.

    ...and Pet Rocks.

    ...and S&H Green Stamps.

  27. Post #19

    #19
    Found a silver nugget Prospector GoldenPoet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Over the rainbow, at the end of the earth, on a dirt road in the jungle
    Posts
    76
    Thanks
    261
    Thanked 57 Times in 29 Posts

    Default Re: The rise and fall of bitcoin:

    https://sealswithclubs.eu/

    Bitcoin Poker, anyone?
    “Sadism dominates the culture. It runs like an electric current through reality television and trash-talk programs, is at the core of pornography, and fuels the compliant, corporate collective. Corporatism is about crushing the capacity for moral choice and diminishing the individual to force him or her into an ostensibly harmonious collective. . - SMASH THE CONTROL MACHINE

  28. The Following User Says Thank You to GoldenPoet For This Useful Post:

    LarsonLarsen (02-26-2013)

  29. Post #20

    #20
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    629
    Thanks
    66
    Thanked 186 Times in 127 Posts

    Default Re: The rise and fall of bitcoin:

    I started buying in when Bitcoins were .065 cents. They're now going for over thirty bucks each.

    Oh, I feel so used!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •