PMs Down

[Goldfish]

PMs are down yesterday and today. Can someone more knowledgeable than I explain what is at work here? Will these prices sustain or bounce back in the next day or two?

[cpthnsolo]

PMs are down yesterday and today. Can someone more knowledgeable than I explain what is at work here? Will these prices sustain or bounce back in the next day or two?

I'm not trying to sound snotty, but surely you realize that no one here knows what will happen tomorrow, let alone next week. Granted when prices are rising you hear many say "folks are waking up" and when prices are falling you hear about "smackdowns" and suppression, but in the end it's all largely speculation.

Today's action is probably has to do with the bad news regarding global growth. When news like that hits people expect commodity demand to fall so metal prices sink too. Remember when the stock market put in the lows of early '09 so did PMs so if the market heads south expect PMs to sink with it if recent history is any indicator.

[Goldfish]

I'm not trying to sound snotty, but surely you realize that no one here knows what will happen tomorrow, let alone next week. Granted when prices are rising you hear many say "folks are waking up" and when prices are falling you hear about "smackdowns" and suppression, but in the end it's all largely speculation.

Today's action is probably has to do with the bad news regarding global growth. When news like that hits people expect commodity demand to fall so metal prices sink too. Remember when the stock market put in the lows of early '09 so did PMs so if the market heads south expect PMs to sink with it if recent history is any indicator.

Just trying to spark conversation and speculation. Sorry.

[HistoryStudent]

Strange times we live in. BOLT your butt to the floorboard - I hate to say it but, "really because of the BOZOs: this time it really is VERY different."

[CiscoKid]

My crystal ball says that PMs will either go up or down tomorrow. Of course, they may go up and then go down, or they may go down and then go up. There is a slight chance that, at the end of the day, they will be right where they are today. Pretty sure that holds true for the rest of the summer. You're welcome.

[newmisty]

My input is that I just pulled the trigger a few minutes ago on a small order. Been waiting a few weeks to do so.

[dozer99]

I like to call this a buying opportunity. I like to call this a buying opportunity. I see this as "stretching my dollars" which in reality it is. But to answer your questions, no one really knows if this will hold, drop or rise. Until the manipulation ceases however, these ups and downs will continue.

[smilershouse]

I tend to lean against the fact there is real Ag being dumped on the market.

Summary, its just paper contracts playing the volatility. And as HS states "BOLT your butt to the floorboard" and when you have $$$ follow dozer99 and stack.

My local dealer has huge premiums loaded onto the spot during these smack downs.

SH

[hoarder]

PMs are down yesterday and today. Can someone more knowledgeable than I explain what is at work here? Will these prices sustain or bounce back in the next day or two?

Paper gold and paper silver dropping to their rightful value.

Why should paper metals have much value? their supply is unlimited.

It's just the law of supply and demand.

If paper gold and paper silver were scarcer, they would be worth more.

[vintage collector]

I like to call this a buying opportunity. I like to call this a buying opportunity. I see this as "stretching my dollars" which in reality it is. But to answer your questions, no one really knows if this will hold, drop or rise. Until the manipulation ceases however, these ups and downs will continue.

Just keep stacking with any of your disposable income.

I showed my wife my latest 5 ounce pucks and she said, we have to start saving more money (frn's). And I said we are(silver & gold).

She fortunately agrees with me but we are not all in yet. It is tough to convert someone who has believed in paper for such a long time.

But I'm working on it.

[Joseph]

I was going to pick up 20 ASEs from Provident this afternoon. The premium is $3.40

[jogslvr]

The euro crap is just starting and Moodys is downgrading large US banks today. Metals will follow stocks down like in 2008. I'll not be surprised to see $1400 Au and $20 Ag. Just sayin' - keep some moe powder dry.

Yep - 70:1

[Goldfish]

Is there a limit to what gold/silver dealers will charge for a premium? How bad can the gouging get?

[smilershouse]

Is there a limit to what gold/silver dealers will charge for a premium? How bad can the gouging get?

I would hardly call premiums gouging. Rather, the paper short positions on the contracts that are gouging the real price of bullion.

SH

[cpthnsolo]

Is there a limit to what gold/silver dealers will charge for a premium? How bad can the gouging get?

Great question! During the lows a few years back when silver was $9 I couldn't find physical for less than $13/$14 locally and that was when I could find it. A lot of folks started ordering from Northwest mint at the time as they had 'normal' premiums still, but they waited literally months for their silver to show up. Your mileage will vary depending where you're (as in how many shops are close by) and your relationship with the dealers of course.

[EO 11110]

a second chance for those that missed the 26.xx last time..

it would be nice if they could take it lower though....fingers crossed

[hoarder]

I would hardly call premiums gouging. Rather, the paper short positions on the contracts that are gouging the real price of bullion.

SH

Here's a man that gets it. Dealers have no duty to sell their physical silver for the price of paper silver.

[Weatherman]

My Wild A$$ Guess is that this drop could be a precursor to a coordinated bailout of European banks, and the banksters are forcefully selling the rumor (or more likely the certain insider news that their owners have told them about in advance) this week. If that is true, then I would expect more selling early Friday to cement the message that precious metals are not the way to bet against the mountains of fiat that will soon be unleashed by the ECB and the FED. The powers that be prefer to persuade Joe six pack to not take advantage of this opportunity. After the bailouts are announced (possibly this weekend), there will no longer be any need to paint the tape to make metals look bad. Indeed, selling into the rise that will follow the bailout announcements would be foolish even for the banksters (who will be buying back their short positions before the news)! Even if there will not be any bailouts announced this weekend, the current plunge in prices is the type of dips that we should be buying so we can sell later at much higher prices. I plan to invest the remaining amount of cash I have saved by buying on Friday. I want to be 100% in for the weekend. If prices continue to drop next week and later, then I will simply hold until prices eventually rise again, as they surely will. It is times like these that makes us more appreciative of the advice to not buy on margin (because fear would force us to liquidate leveraged positions "before it gets worse"), but to only buy with available cash so we can take the heat and hold until the markets improve. YMMV so DYODD.

[anywoundedduck]

This is the usual hohum day. Who cares what they do with the paper. The good news is you can buy real bullion at these prices. Buying all the way down. If they keep it up, I will take out a second mortgage to buy more. After all, I lost all what I had in a boating accident, and I need it to replace what I lost.

[Silver Art]

Great question! During the lows a few years back when silver was $9 I couldn't find physical for less than $13/$14 locally and that was when I could find it. A lot of folks started ordering from Northwest mint at the time as they had 'normal' premiums still, but they waited literally months for their silver to show up. Your mileage will vary depending where you're (as in how many shops are close by) and your relationship with the dealers of course.

Yeah that was about the lowest that a person could get .999 generic silver for in my local area when spot was $9. That's assuming that they had it which they did not have much of it during that time. Back then, whatever silver the LCS had was moving fast even at a $6 premium in late 2008.

[Joseph]

My Wild A$$ Guess is that this drop could be a precursor to a coordinated bailout of European banks, and the banksters are forcefully selling the rumor (or more likely the certain insider news that their owners have told them about in advance) this week. If that is true, then I would expect more selling early Friday to cement the message that precious metals are not the way to bet against the mountains of fiat that will soon be unleashed by the ECB and the FED. The powers that be prefer to persuade Joe six pack to not take advantage of this opportunity. After the bailouts are announced (possibly this weekend), there will no longer be any need to paint the tape to make metals look bad. Indeed, selling into the rise that will follow the bailout announcements would be foolish even for the banksters (who will be buying back their short positions before the news)! Even if there will not be any bailouts announced this weekend, the current plunge in prices is the type of dips that we should be buying so we can sell later at much higher prices. I plan to invest the remaining amount of cash I have saved by buying on Friday. I want to be 100% in for the weekend. If prices continue to drop next week and later, then I will simply hold until prices eventually rise again, as they surely will. It is times like these that makes us more appreciative of the advice to not buy on margin (because fear would force us to liquidate leveraged positions "before it gets worse"), but to only buy with available cash so we can take the heat and hold until the markets improve. YMMV so DYODD.

Well, I either believe GIM2, Celente, Sinclair, Schiff, Ron Paul, et al, or I don't. Its binary. Therefore the only decision I have to make this evening is how to divide my humble funds between Au and Ag. I've had worse problems to figure out. What's your opinion, Irons ?

This Sinclair page is long, in that it covers a few days, but if you have any faith in this guy, its worth the read. It's over. The fat lady has sung, and Elvis has left the building


FWIW
UPDATE:

Ratings agency Moody’s downgraded the long-term credit ratings of 15 major U.S., Canadian, and European banks today after markets in New York closed.

Of the 15 firms downgraded this afternoon, none were hit more than Moody’s originally said was possible when it placed them on review in February.

The action will likely force many of the banks targeted post additional collateral against trades held on their book.

http://www.jsmineset.com/

[andial]

This is purely the free markets at work doing their price discovery thing. No way are the precious metals manipulated like interest rates,bonds,currencies,oil,agricultural products, real estate and stock prices are. JMHO

[Gcubed]

This is purely the free markets at work doing their price discovery thing. No way are the precious metals manipulated like interest rates,bonds,currencies,oil,agricultural products, real estate and stock prices are. JMHO

Ya fergot Hookers 'n Blow!!

[EO 11110]

grabbed a few 1/10 goldies, a handful of classic commem silver pieces, and a 1/10 burnished plati tonight

if nyc hits it again, i'll triple down....bring it on b-tches

[Garyw]

Just my take. They will never quit manipulating paper gold and silver. So if the price goes up or down it does not make any difference. The printing presses are nonstop. So if you intend to buy gold and silver the price is irrelevent. The end game it will have a value when paper will do no more than wipe your ass. (Last year the value of the dollar was 5 cents) now it is worth nothing.) Any price for pms is good.

[REO 54]

Blah, blah, blah....keep buying metal as you see fit!

[crypse]

Buy! Buy! Buy!

[REO 54]

My LCS had tube of silver Maples. He let me have them for 3 over spot.......29.90, 747. total. I thought that was might nice of him.It was'nt even
out on display.He went to the safe and pulled it when I asked if he had any. I think I'm finally making good a good relationship with this shop.

[HistoryStudent]

Just keep stacking with any of your disposable income.

I showed my wife my latest 5 ounce pucks and she said, we have to start saving more money (frn's). And I said we are(silver & gold).

She fortunately agrees with me but we are not all in yet. It is tough to convert someone who has believed in paper for such a long time.

But I'm working on it.

Tell her gold and silver physical are the only real money not backed by a double-crossing liar with his finger on the

CTRL-P (print) button attached to 100 dollar bills doing 150 MPH down the freeway of inflation.

[GOLD DUCK]

QWAK,APMAX is out of 90% SILVER junk bags till July 6 --- I had to but 1 oz. rounds!

the DUCK

[hammerhead]

It is times like these that makes us more appreciative of the advice to not buy on margin (because fear would force us to liquidate leveraged positions "before it gets worse"), but to only buy with available cash so we can take the heat and hold until the markets improve. YMMV so DYODD.

And that my friend, is good advice. Buy with only what you can afford.

[Silver Art]

My LCS had tube of silver Maples. He let me have them for 3 over spot.......29.90, 747. total. I thought that was might nice of him.It was'nt even
out on display.He went to the safe and pulled it when I asked if he had any. I think I'm finally making good a good relationship with this shop.

As I have found out during the last few years, establishing a good relationship with a LCS will eventually pay off in dividends when you buy PMs. The dividends of a good relationship with a LCS will come in the form of either 1.) The occasional break on premium that you normally pay for gold and/or silver or 2.) PM's that he/she might have in the safe (not on display) in the back of the shop that you have first dibs on buying.