Proper diet for a diabetic friend

[Merlin]

The guy takes insulin injections a couple of times a day. And, from my point of view (but what do I know?), he makes terrible dietary choices.

Tonight's dinner is KFC chicken, cole slaw, mashed taters with gravy, and biscuits. Good grief! Isn't that about as bad a choice as he could make? Has anyone else dealt with a friend or relative suffering from diabetes and who makes lousy eating choices? What to do? What to do...

[birddog]

It is really hard to see someone you care for not take care of themselves but it is hard to get them to change when the government is promoting the Standard American Diet (SAD). Which is really a death sentence. I'm convinced that sugar and carbs are more addicting than heroin or crack, so how do you get addicts to chance??

Leading by example? Hitting them over the head? They really have to come to the realization that what they are doing isn't working and is making them unhealthy. Very hard to watch....


I've bought a few extra copies of this book and handed it out to a few friends. You could send it to his house anonymously.....

http://www.amazon.com/It-Starts-Food.../dp/1936608898

Great book because it focuses on the different food groups and why they are good/bad for you. It rates them by 4 good food standards...

Our foods should....

1. Promote a healthy psychological response.
2. Promote a healthy hormonal response.
3. Support a healthy gut.
4. Support immune funtion and minimize inflammation.

I guess you could say the book is paleo, but the authors really focus on real organic sourced food that is health for you.

[Unclad Lad]

Tonight's dinner is KFC chicken, coleslaw, mashed taters with gravy, and biscuits.

And a Diet Pepsi, right?

As I see it, Merlin, the worst problem may not be the meal, but the source--someplace outside his own kitchen. Does he know how to cook? There are a lot of people who don't. They can bake something from the freezer section, but they don't know how to put a meal together from the raw ingredients. If this is the case, maybe you could teach him how to cook for himself. It becomes even easier if he makes a full batch and then freezes a few nights of portions for the rest of the week. Or maybe there are cooking classes in your area.

[Someone_else]

Has anyone else dealt with a friend or relative suffering from diabetes and who makes lousy eating choices?

Yes. My father is taking metformin and shots.

What to do? What to do...

There is NOTHING one can do. The correct answer is a low-carb diet. I have been on one for more than a year and it has helped my weight, my health, and my energy. I have read the materials and I have judged the evidence. I have chosen my diet based on research and logic.

But most people don't give a sh!t about facts or logic. They will believe what the status quo tells them to believe. And they will believe what their sh!thead doctors tell them about cholesterol, saturated fats, and "whole grains". They would rather believe the lies of a doctor than the truth of "some guy on the Internet". And they will get sicker and die. Probably expensively.

I think the easiest way is to just accept things as they are, like a friend who is a fervent believer in some crackpot religion. You are not going to change their mind, but you can be nice and maybe help their suffering here and there.

[GOLDZILLA]

Only thing you can really do is not help them eat that ****. If I take a birthday cake over to my parents house, my diabetic dad will eat the whole cake in 3 minutes, so now I dont bring any cake over there anymore. Last time I brought a birthday watermelon and canteloupe.

[earplugs]

give him his medicare/medicaid card and fill out his social security disability form for him. Then empty your wallet and give him the money directly. at least gooby middle men won't get their cut and he can buy liquor. if he speaks only spanish, give him your credit cards too. be sure to talk to him about darwinian theory of evolution and how it's a fact, not a theory.

[Avalon]

Merlin, diabetics are notoriously non compliant..In fact when to comes to dietary restrictions many people choose death and disease because they refuse to change. All you can do is accept your friends choice without enabling. If you cook for him then cook a proper meal and set a good example. Otherwise you have to let it go. Nagging will only cause deep resentment and destroy the relationship. If the friend has asked for your help you can encourage proper diet and exercise. Otherwise you have to respect his choice.

[Avalon]

Only thing you can really do is not help them eat that ****. If I take a birthday cake over to my parents house, my diabetic dad will eat the whole cake in 3 minutes, so now I don't bring any cake over there anymore. Last time I brought a birthday watermelon and canteloupe.

Parents... you got to love them. My Mom was diabetic and on kidney dialysis. She was suppose to be on a salt free diet. I took her grocery shopping and she put a whole smithfield ham in her cart. She lived a lone and what the hell did she need with a whole ham. We had a nasty little exchange of words and then a tug of war over the ham. I won! It was quite embarrassing as wresting an old lady over a ham in the grocery store is not something you really want to do. After she pouted for a while we went back and she got a single slice of smithfield ham and admitted she was being a little unreasonable. Sigh!

[phideaux]

I read Doctor John McDougall's first book (about heart disease and diet) about 20 years ago. The guy is an anti-Establishment warrior and a genius.

He was on Coast to Coast a few nights ago and he talked extensively about diabetes. Tons of info at his web site. http://www.drmcdougall.com/

[Kingfisher]

http://www.drmcdougall.com/index.html

Oh great. Eating starch is healthy now. I am just going to slash my wrists. It would certainly be easier that trying to figure out all this diet stuff. Paleo/veggio, low fat/low carb. Jeezers.

[phideaux]

http://www.drmcdougall.com/index.html

Oh great. Eating starch is healthy now.

Well, not exactly "now". McDougall has been advocating this for 30+ years.

[phideaux]

The paleo diet is at the other end of the spectrum from McDougall's starch diet.

Both make a lot of sense to me too, and both work for a lot of people.

So, I think the conclusion is that humans should pick one "diet" and stick to it. Your body will adapt. It's the Western World's habit of eating everything, and copious amounts of it, that is the problem.

[Malus]

The guy takes insulin injections a couple of times a day. And, from my point of view (but what do I know?), he makes terrible dietary choices.

Tonight's dinner is KFC chicken, cole slaw, mashed taters with gravy, and biscuits. Good grief! Isn't that about as bad a choice as he could make? Has anyone else dealt with a friend or relative suffering from diabetes and who makes lousy eating choices? What to do? What to do...

If he chooses to eat sh*t for food then make sure he takes the fast acting insulin (Humalog) to knock that sugar down fast. He would have to be a regular glucose tester to stay on top of it. Multiple tests (6-8 times a day if you eat a lot of processed/crap filled foods). Its the smashed taters and biscuit that cranks the blood sugar (bread is evil). The chicken is f*ck all, the coating probably has sugar but not much. The coleslaw is alright depending on the sauce. Everything has sugar added to it in Western diets and is a diabetics worst nightmare (but it tastes so good). Balanced vegetarian lifestyle (with some meat added in if thats your take) is the way to go. Less sugar less insulin................. on a side note. Stay away from "diet" anything. Aspartame/Sucralose and the such are toxins.

[Malus]

Merlin, diabetics are notoriously non compliant..In fact when to comes to dietary restrictions many people choose death and disease because they refuse to change. All you can do is accept your friends choice without enabling. If you cook for him then cook a proper meal and set a good example. Otherwise you have to let it go. Nagging will only cause deep resentment and destroy the relationship. If the friend has asked for your help you can encourage proper diet and exercise. Otherwise you have to respect his choice.

A slight tweek to this. Type 2 diabetics are notoriously non compliant. Type 1 diabetics are more on the ball than their worn out counterparts. I really wish doctors did not group the two different ailments under the same name.............

[Merlin]

And a Diet Pepsi, right?

As I see it, Merlin, the worst problem may not be the meal, but the source--someplace outside his own kitchen. Does he know how to cook? There are a lot of people who don't. They can bake something from the freezer section, but they don't know how to put a meal together from the raw ingredients. If this is the case, maybe you could teach him how to cook for himself. It becomes even easier if he makes a full batch and then freezes a few nights of portions for the rest of the week. Or maybe there are cooking classes in your area.

And a Diet Pepsi! You hit that one square on. And I think, in general, you are absolutely right about the source of the food. But there's more to it than that. There's nothing wrong with chicken. However, if you're not a lumber jack or a hardworking farm hand, the carbs in the breading, together with the carbs in the biscuits, the taters and the slaw will spike your blood sugar and the jackedup insulin levels will cause that blood glucose to be stored as fat.

This time, I gave him what he asked for. The next time, the chicken will be roasted in the oven, the mashed taters and gravy will magically change into sweet potatoes (served with butter and a little cinnamon), and the cole slaw instead will be a tossed salad (where lettuce is NOT the main ingredient.)

I just finished my lunch salad: turnip greens, spinach, kale, red cabbage, green onion, red bell pepper, American and Swiss cheese slices, and low-carb ranch dressing. If my friend ate what I eat at every meal, he might not even need insulin injections.

[Merlin]

If he chooses to eat sh*t for food then make sure he takes the fast acting insulin (Humalog) to knock that sugar down fast. He would have to be a regular glucose tester to stay on top of it. Multiple tests (6-8 times a day if you eat a lot of processed/crap filled foods). Its the smashed taters and biscuit that cranks the blood sugar (bread is evil). The chicken is f*ck all, the coating probably has sugar but not much. The coleslaw is alright depending on the sauce. Everything has sugar added to it in Western diets and is a diabetics worst nightmare (but it tastes so good). Balanced vegetarian lifestyle (with some meat added in if thats your take) is the way to go. Less sugar less insulin................. on a side note. Stay away from "diet" anything. Aspartame/Sucralose and the such are toxins.

I use Stevia now for sweetener. And all you folks are offering sound, supportive advice. Future meals that he eats at my table will adhere closely to what I want to eat. If he wants to eat ****, he can do it elsewhere.

[Merlin]

Before his diabetes disabled him with bleeding sores on his foot that will not heal, my friend was an over-the-road truck driver. You can only imagine what his diet must have been like then, and changing his eating habits now looks like a huge problem. As always, Avalon has the right instincts. I have to lead by example and hope he learns in time to save himself. Because if his path does not change soon, he is a short-timer.

[Merlin]

When David was dying with lung cancer, the medical establishment focused on the results of his latest scan, his response to this that or the other chemo drug, and his latest CBC. The pros focused on "treating" his cancer and they gave virtually no attention to diet or trying to create a healthy environment in his body to discourage the growth of cancer cells.

Same thing is true with diabetes, I bet. Sure, they probably gave him some printed handout about what to eat. But I wonder exactly how much attention has been focused on the single, one thing he could do to help himself -- change his unhealthy diet.

[Unclad Lad]

There's nothing wrong with chicken. However, if you're not a lumber jack or a hardworking farm hand, the carbs in the breading, together with the carbs in the biscuits, the taters and the slaw will spike your blood sugar and the jacked up insulin levels will cause that blood glucose to be stored as fat.

But, again, part of the problem is he goes out to buy a ready-made meal, and all he sees is food. He doesn't see the ingredients that go into it, and since it's an all or nothing proposition (he can't tell KFC he'd like his Original Recipe with half the salt, for example), he's much more willing to eat crap, and pay for the privilege. It's only when you start making your own food that you begin to realize the possibilities: that dill adds a buttery flavor without added fat, that frying in olive oil is tastier than in Crisco, that seasoned brown rice is much more filling than mashed potatoes, etc.

Many of the things we eat are addictive. I can personally attest that refined sugar withdrawal can make you crazy.

Has anyone else dealt with a friend or relative suffering from diabetes and who makes lousy eating choices? What to do? What to do...

You've also not stated the crucial part: Does he acknowledge that his diet is a problem? Has he told you he wants to eat better, and wants your help? Because if he hasn't, then nothing you do will matter.

[Mantokir]

When David was dying with lung cancer, the medical establishment focused on the results of his latest scan, his response to this that or the other chemo drug, and his latest CBC. The pros focused on "treating" his cancer and they gave virtually no attention to diet or trying to create a healthy environment in his body to discourage the growth of cancer cells.

Same thing is true with diabetes, I bet. Sure, they probably gave him some printed handout about what to eat. But I wonder exactly how much attention has been focused on the single, one thing he could do to help himself -- change his unhealthy diet.

The problem with the medical people is that a diabetic diet (From what I hear) is high in "heart healthy" grains and carbs...

Which seems kind of oxymoronic when you think about it, a disease that is caused by spiking blood sugar, and the treatment is to spike the blood sugar over and over....

[Merlin]

You've also not stated the crucial part: Does he acknowledge that his diet is a problem? Has he told you he wants to eat better, and wants your help? Because if he hasn't, then nothing you do will matter.

No, no and no. It still hurts to watch people self-destruct. And you are absolutely correct. A big problem with eating prepared foods is that you've given up control to someone else -- someone whose motive is not to improve your health.

[Lt Dan]

Same thing is true with diabetes, I bet. Sure, they probably gave him some printed handout about what to eat. But I wonder exactly how much attention has been focused on the single, one thing he could do to help himself -- change his unhealthy diet.

The problems I have as a diabetic is well diet, exercise, support from family, ya gotta eat, and the medical professional pushing drugs instead of giving alternative support. All to often I argue with the doctor because they have the tendency to over medicate - the more medication you take the more you have to eat to prevent hypoglycemia - or sugar lows. Wife went to dietary counseling with me, (she is the cook), and then still cooks pretty much the way she always did before. She bakes stuff, then loads on the sugar or worse yet artificial sweeteners. I finally got her to use stevia instead of the other stuff, but having this stuff in the house begs a person to sample some. I'm 6' - 200#s and need to loose about 10#s but have been trying to for what seems like forever and soon as a drop a couple I seem to gain it right back. Summer is great, as the garden fresh foods help with diet and keeping the weight down, but I actually don't exercise as much in the summer heat so I defeat myself.

Merlin, there is just about no forbidden foods, as one doctor told me, it is all portion size that has to be controlled. Don't get me wrong, there are bad foods, good foods and better foods for diabetics, but the bottom line on food is ya gotta eat and a problem for most diabetics is controlling portions size. I try to eat smaller portions and spread the meals out so I'm eating more often to get what I need, but the weakness is to keep eating until I feel full, which is the wrong way to eat.

[fewferfev]

If it were me, I'd get him a good Vegan book and tell him it's a fun adventure that never ends.

[Merlin]

Is anyone familiar with the work of Dr. Mark Hyman, The Blood Sugar Solution? Is the man authoritative/knowledgeable?

[Malus]

I'm sorry people, but, this ain't rocket science. Cut out the high carbs/processed foods/sugars, get off your lazy ass and exercise. That is the cure for a Type 2 diabetic. The shock doc for diabetics used to walk into a the room on the first day and write on a chalkboard, " You will go blind, you will have your limbs amputated, your kidneys will fail and you will die". Then he would tell you that if you didn't look after yourself (and its all about "you"), these things will (not might) happen. It sobers people up pretty fast. Do not ever ask them whether or not they should be eating whatever it is their eating. Lead by example if you wish to help. Get them active and take them to veggie eateries. Lectures do not work or scolding them, it only pisses them off more because you may think your the only one doing it, but everyone does it. Smaller portions is good with the excuse of exercising more (everyone needs to do it) without saying those magic buzz kill words, "should you be eating that?". Ultimately, its up to the person to change. And since Type 2's are an older generational ailment (typically), teaching an old dog new trick is pretty near impossible. It won't be until they start taking kidney pills or they lose a limb or go blind that they start to take it seriously. It a hidden killer. Slight elevations of blood sugar over long periods of time, destroy your body................. my 2c. You don't need books or doctors, though there are good diabetic cook books to choose from to make eating more exciting.

[Oz Waver]

Fresh Raw Vege Juice Detox.

If you take one piece of advice take this.

Get your friend to watch "Fat, sick and nearly dead".

Then tell us about the success. After that both you and your friend will do your own research. This will just get you started.

If you have any questions you can PM me.

[techguy2]

KFC does have a grilled chicken and it is actually pretty tasty. When I get a hankerin for Fried chicken for lunch I will sometimes get a 2 piece all white grilled chicken meal with coleslaw, and skip the biscuit.

All in all, not a bad meal, doesnt bust the diet, and tastes a lot like the original recipe minus the breaded skin.

[DualCarbon]

Heard good things about this diabetes program; Dr. Neal Barnard, Reversing Diabetes
I need to start researching diabetes for some family members.
http://www.amazon.com/Neal-Barnards-.../dp/1594868107

[earplugs]

Uh, any kind of meat cooked with high heat (actual temperature varies with what kind of meat) produces acrylamide and other carcinogens, like hca. If you're going to eat meat cooked with high heat, be sure to add some greens to it, but mAke sure the greens are either raw, steamed, or boiled, since even fried, baked, and broiled vegies can produce carcinogens.

2-Amino-1-methyl-6-phenylimidazo[4,5-b]pyridine (PhIP) is one of the most abundant heterocyclic amines (HCAs) in cooked meat. It is classified as a IARC Group 2B carcinogen (i.e., possibly carcinogenic to humans),[1] and is considered "reasonably anticipated to be a human carcinogen" by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services National Toxicology Program.[2]

PhIP is formed at high temperatures from the reaction between creatine or creatinine (found in muscle meats), amino acids, and sugar. PhIP formation increases with the temperature and duration of cooking and also depends on the method of cooking and the variety of meat being cooked.

There is inadequate evidence in humans that PhIP is carcinogenic; however, there is sufficient evidence in experimental animals, as well as in vitro models, for the carcinogenicity of PhIP.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PhIP

[Someone_else]

KFC does have a grilled chicken and it is actually pretty tasty. When I get a hankerin for Fried chicken for lunch I will sometimes get a 2 piece all white grilled chicken meal with coleslaw, and skip the biscuit.

Yeah, that's not bad. Last year when visiting a relative, we took him out to KFC. I figured nothing on the menu was low-carb, but saw the grilled chicken was not too high in carbs. I did scream mental profanities about the prices though. Oh, well. Aside from that "mini vacation", I do not eat out. At all.

Uh, any kind of meat cooked with high heat (actual temperature varies with what kind of meat) produces acrylamide and other carcinogens, like hca.

I don't challenge your statement. But I like my beef medium-rare anyway. I like it juicy and with flavor, which goes away when it gets to medium. I hope that my body can handle the seared proteins on the surface, and I'll be sure to keep up on my vitamins and antioxidants. And pork ribs ... I will bake them low and slow. I will start at maybe 300 for the first half hour to get the cooking started, and then let them finish at 250-225 for three hours or so.

... but make sure the greens are either raw, steamed, or boiled, since even fried, baked, and broiled veggies can produce carcinogens.

Again, I make a deal with the devil. My cooked vegetables are limited to broccoli, onions, green beans, and zucchini. I do fry them, either in coconut oil or bacon grease. I usually add garlic and/or ginger, and other spices. Overall, I think the good foods outweigh the small risk from the "carcinogens".

[Unclad Lad]

Uh, any kind of meat cooked with high heat (actual temperature varies with what kind of meat) produces acrylamide and other carcinogens, like hca. If you're going to eat meat cooked with high heat...

There are a few ways around that, the first being the slow cooker. The second owes itself to the so-called "molecular gastronomy", and is called sous vide. It involves cooking a meal sealed in a pouch at temperatures below boiling for hours or even days. I haven't tried it myself, but I hear it leaves the meat fall apart tender. Commercial sous vide cookers are expensive, but I've seen Maker articles for homemade ones.

[Merlin]

To bring you all up to date, Sam is in the hospital tonight. He has an ulcer on the bottom of his arch about the size of a silver dollar and a quarter inch deep. Worse, his middle toe is infected to the bone.

Tomorrow, they do an MRI to determine how far the infection extends. And then, they'll decide how much of his foot to amputate.

I was visiting him today, when the dietician came in the room. She tried to ignore me for a while and finally relented with the comment that Sam already knows about the diabetic diet. Sam volunteered that he would eat what he wanted. And that was the end of that. What a waste.

The bad part is that he has no support group (none, zero, nada) and I'm going to Europe for 3 weeks on the 15th of Sep. He sure has a long row to hoe. And I can't help him. Too bad. So sad.

[arminius]

Too bad. So sad.

Life goes on, or it doesn't...

[Merlin]

Life goes on, or it doesn't...

"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference."

In the meantime, I've found the form and the procedure he needs to follow to get a handicapped parking placard. Hope to have it done before I leave the country at the end of this week.

[gnome]

If he wants to heal, he can. Most won't. Sad.

[Rusty Shackelford]

Only thing you can really do is not help them eat that ****. If I take a birthday cake over to my parents house, my diabetic dad will eat the whole cake in 3 minutes, so now I dont bring any cake over there anymore. Last time I brought a birthday watermelon and canteloupe.

Watermelon and cateloupe are pretty high in carbs too for diabetics. 11.6g for a cup of water melon and 14 for a cup of cataloupe. Problem is, most eat way more then a cup of these.

Don't get me wrong it is a much better substitute for cake, but just pointing out that there really are no good carbs for diabetics.

As someone pointed out earlier, I went on low carb adkins a few years back out of convience since wife was on it. Honestly?? I never felt better. limiting my carbs to under 10 a day. Took some planning and self control, but felt great. Really need to consider getting back to that.

[Unclad Lad]

He sure has a long row to hoe.

It's going do be a short row, and he's already started to dig. He's made his choices.