Gold Is Money -- Gold is Money -  The Premier Gold and Silver Forum -- Goldismoney Gold Is Money -- Gold is Money -  The Premier Gold and Silver Forum -- Goldismoney
Welcome Guest, is this your first visit?
Register today to gain access to all of our features which include creating topics, replying back to posts, private messaging and much more!

What are you waiting for?
Already Joined?
Sign into your account now
Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: Are We Losing Civilian Control Of The Military?

  1. Post #1

    #1
    GIM Statesman searcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    the city
    Posts
    23,078
    Thanks
    11,086
    Thanked 19,127 Times in 8,727 Posts

    Default Are We Losing Civilian Control Of The Military?



    U.S. Military Grants Itself the Authority to Deploy Troops in American Cities Without Presidential or Local Approval

    Daniel Jackson
    May 16th, 2013


    Military no longer under civilian control?
    In a move that makes clear the direction that our country is increasingly heading towards, the Department of Defense has published an update to a US code that outlines military power during civil unrest.

    The code, ““Defense Support of Civilian Law Enforcement Agencies,” was slightly altered during a May 13th update which now allows the military to unilaterally declare martial law without presidential approval.

    Multiple sections of the code outline plans and policies for a martial law scenario and should be considered a must read for any American worried about their freedoms in what has become a hostile American police state.

    The rule seems to actually contradict itself, in one part claiming that the military can only be used during extreme circumstances with Presidential approval and then, in an updated part of the code, declaring that the military can put troops on the streets without approval from the president or local law enforcement.
    The primary restriction on DoD participation in civilian law enforcement activities is the Posse Comitatus Act. It provides that whoever willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute U.S. laws, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, shall be fined under title 18, U.S.C., or imprisoned not more than two years, or both. Section 182.6 (a) describes in detail the assistance that the Department of Defense may and may not provide civilian law enforcement agencies.

    b. Support During Civil Disturbances
    The President is authorized by the Constitution and laws of the United States to employ the Armed Forces of the United States to suppress insurrections, rebellions, and domestic violence under various conditions and circumstances. Planning and preparedness by the Federal Government, including the Department of Defense, for civil disturbances is important due to the potential severity of the consequences of such events for the Nation and the population. The employment of Federal military forces to control civil disturbances shall only occur in a specified civil jurisdiction under specific circumstances as authorized by the President, normally through issuance of an Executive order or other Presidential directive authorizing and directing the Secretary of Defense to provide for the restoration of law and order in a specific State or locality.
    A little further down within the code the above text is made completely irrelevant. (emphasis mine)
    Domestic emergencies. Emergencies affecting the public welfare and occurring within the 50 states, District of Columbia, Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, U.S. possessions and territories, or any political subdivision thereof, as a result of enemy attack, insurrection, civil disturbance, earthquake, fire, flood, or other public disasters or equivalent emergencies that endanger life and property or disrupt the usual process of government. Domestic emergencies include civil defense emergencies, civil disturbances, major disasters, and natural disasters.

    [[Page 21829]]
    Emergency authority. A Federal military commander’s authority, in extraordinary emergency circumstances where prior authorization by the President is impossible and duly constituted local authorities are unable to control the situation, to engage temporarily in activities that are necessary to quell large-scale, unexpected civil disturbances
    because:

    (1) Such activities are necessary to prevent significant loss of life or wanton destruction of property and are necessary to restore governmental function and public order; or

    (2) Duly constituted Federal, State, or local authorities are unable or decline to provide adequate protection for Federal property or Federal governmental functions.
    Most worrying is that the examples given as possible reasons for when the military would need to use their, “emergency authority,” are so broad and open to interpretation that it essentially gives them the power to declare martial law whenever they choose.

    A recent piece published by the Long Island Press further expanded on the repercussions of these “subtle” changes to the US code.
    The lines blurred even further Monday as a new dynamic was introduced to the militarization of domestic law enforcement.


    By making a few subtle changes to a regulation in the U.S. Code titled “Defense Support of Civilian Law Enforcement Agencies” the military has quietly granted itself the ability to police the streets without obtaining prior local or state consent, upending a precedent that has been in place for more than two centuries.
    {….}

    Bruce Afran, a civil liberties attorney and constitutional law professor at Rutgers University, calls the rule, “a wanton power grab by the military,” and says, “It’s quite shocking actually because it violates the long-standing presumption that the military is under civilian control.”
    What exactly giving the power of martial law to a military commander actually means was also explained:
    One of the more disturbing aspects of the new procedures that govern military command on the ground in the event of a civil disturbance relates to authority. Not only does it fail to define what circumstances would be so severe that the president’s authorization is “impossible,” it grants full presidential authority to “Federal military commanders.”

    According to the defense official, a commander is defined as follows: “Somebody who’s in the position of command, has the title commander. And most of the time they are centrally selected by a board, they’ve gone through additional schooling to exercise command authority.”

    As it is written, this “commander” has the same power to authorize military force as the president in the event the president is somehow unable to access a telephone. (The rule doesn’t address the statutory chain of authority that already exists in the event a sitting president is unavailable.)

    In doing so, this commander must exercise judgment in determining what constitutes, “wanton destruction of property,” “adequate protection for Federal property,” “domestic violence,” or “conspiracy that hinders the execution of State or Federal law,” as these are the circumstances that might be considered an “emergency.”

    “These phrases don’t have any legal meaning,” says Afran. “It’s no different than the emergency powers clause in the Weimar constitution [of the German Reich]. It’s a grant of emergency power to the military to rule over parts of the country at their own discretion.
    This power grab comes at a time when police forces throughout the country are already becoming increasingly militarized, with the recent police response during the manhunt for one of the Boston Bombings suspects being a prime example.

    Rather than
    a force of peacekeepers, the police looked more like troops on the battlefield, and in many ways they acted like it. This has all been made possible by little reported on Pentagon programs that give military gear to police forces.
    The focus on the DoD regulatory change obscures the creeping militarization that has already occurred in police departments across the nation.

    Even prior to the NDAA lawsuit, journalist Chris Hedges was critical of domestic law enforcement agencies saying, “The widening use of militarized police units effectively nullifies the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878.”

    This de facto nullification isn’t lost on the DoD.

    The DoD official even referred to the Boston bombing suspects manhunt saying, “Like most major police departments, if you didn’t know they were a police department you would think they were the military.”

    According to this official there has purposely been a “large transfer of technology so that the military doesn’t have to get involved.” Moreover, he says the military has learned from past events, such as the siege at Waco, where ATF officials mishandled military equipment. “We have transferred the technology so we don’t have to loan it,” he states.
    This so called large transfer of technology has allowed law enforcement to basically change their entire purpose by implementing gear and weaponry that twenty years ago would never have been considered for use on the American people.

    Sadly, America is increasing becoming eerily similar to many different dictatorships throughout history. From unilateral powers to declare martial law, to the ability to indefinitely detain American citizens without charge, the powers that be have truly moved towards an American police state.

    Further Information:
    https://publicintelligence.net/dod-s...w-enforcement/
    http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/10C18.txt
    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2013...2013-07802.htm

    http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-new...roval_05162013
    Last edited by searcher; 05-17-2013 at 10:39 AM.

  2. Post #2

    #2
    Midas Member REO 54's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    4,521
    Thanks
    5,041
    Thanked 2,322 Times in 1,351 Posts

    Default Re: Are We Losing Civilian Control Of The Military?

    "Even prior to the NDAA lawsuit, journalist Chris Hedges was critical of domestic law enforcement agencies saying, “The widening use of militarized police units effectively nullifies the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878.”

    This de facto nullification isn’t lost on the DoD.

    The DoD official even referred to the Boston bombing suspects manhunt saying, “Like most major police departments, if you didn’t know they were a police department you would think they were the military.”

    The desensitation of America......slowly becoming compliant cattle.....maybe.
    Slow is smooth.....smooth is fast...

  3. Post #3

    #3
    Gold Member+ TAEZZAR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    OREGON
    Posts
    3,919
    Thanks
    5,932
    Thanked 4,874 Times in 1,861 Posts

    Default Re: Are We Losing Civilian Control Of The Military?

    The desensitation of America......slowly becoming compliant cattle.....maybe.
    Actually, it may be even more sinister than that !! There are too many FEMA camps & big plastic coffins for my comfort !

  4. Post #4

    #4
    Gold Member+ Malus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    In a world gone mad....
    Posts
    2,473
    Thanks
    4,405
    Thanked 1,783 Times in 965 Posts

    Default Re: Are We Losing Civilian Control Of The Military?

    You actually think "civilians" ever had control?
    “Those who tell the stories rule society.”
    by Plato
    “Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voice of opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of increasingly repressive measures, until it becomes a source of terror to all its citizens and creates a country where everyone lives in fear.” Harry S Truman

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Malus For This Useful Post:

    Ragnarok (05-18-2013)

  6. Post #5

    #5
    Midas Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    4,415
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 1,242 Times in 786 Posts

    Default Re: Are We Losing Civilian Control Of The Military?

    Quote Originally Posted by TAEZZAR View Post
    Actually, it may be even more sinister than that !! There are too many FEMA camps & big plastic coffins for my comfort !
    There isn't enough 'fema camps' to hold even half of 1% of the US population. The idea that the fema camps that are designed to hold like 500 people are mass concentration camps are silly. Also the big plastic coffins are not coffins but burial vaults that you place coffins inside when you bury someone, because those pretty coffins would be crushed by the earth above it.

    Those huge fields of 'coffins' is just an outdoor warehouse for those burial vaults for a company called Vantage products. There is only like 50,000 in the warehouse not the like millions people report and the reason they have a lot is because 2.5 million people die every year and the burial vaults and grave liners are required by law in many states.

    http://vantageproducts.com/

  7. Post #6

    #6
    Gold Member+ TAEZZAR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    OREGON
    Posts
    3,919
    Thanks
    5,932
    Thanked 4,874 Times in 1,861 Posts

    Default Re: Are We Losing Civilian Control Of The Military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alric View Post
    There isn't enough 'fema camps' to hold even half of 1% of the US population. The idea that the fema camps that are designed to hold like 500 people are mass concentration camps are silly. Also the big plastic coffins are not coffins but burial vaults that you place coffins inside when you bury someone, because those pretty coffins would be crushed by the earth above it.

    Those huge fields of 'coffins' is just an outdoor warehouse for those burial vaults for a company called Vantage products. There is only like 50,000 in the warehouse not the like millions people report and the reason they have a lot is because 2.5 million people die every year and the burial vaults and grave liners are required by law in many states.

    http://vantageproducts.com/
    Do you REALLY believe that ????????????????

  8. Post #7

    #7
    Midas Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    4,415
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 1,242 Times in 786 Posts

    Default Re: Are We Losing Civilian Control Of The Military?

    Yea because there is a lot of evidence to support that, and it makes sense. If the government wanted to kill a ton of people they would dig a mass grave and just dump all the bodies in that, they wouldn't individually bury each individual person in their own coffin.

  9. Post #8

    #8
    Gold Member+ TAEZZAR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    OREGON
    Posts
    3,919
    Thanks
    5,932
    Thanked 4,874 Times in 1,861 Posts

    Default Re: Are We Losing Civilian Control Of The Military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alric View Post
    Yea because there is a lot of evidence to support that, and it makes sense. If the government wanted to kill a ton of people they would dig a mass grave and just dump all the bodies in that, they wouldn't individually bury each individual person in their own coffin.
    Those are big enough to hold several people, and even more ASHES !!!

  10. Post #9

    #9
    Midas Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    4,415
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 1,242 Times in 786 Posts

    Default Re: Are We Losing Civilian Control Of The Military?

    They are big enough to hold a coffin, because they are burial vaults. Coffins go inside them. Look it up.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burial_vault_(enclosure)

    Why would the government make two person coffins? That is just silly. Like I said, they would just do a mass grave. And why would you put ashes in a coffin? You can just dump ashes out in the woods some place or let the wind blow them away. Ashes are not toxic to the environment, you can put them any where you want.

  11. Post #10

    #10
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    548
    Thanks
    508
    Thanked 488 Times in 245 Posts

    Default Re: Are We Losing Civilian Control Of The Military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alric View Post
    The idea that the fema camps that are designed to hold like 500 people are mass concentration camps are silly.
    You're falling into the conspiracy theorist trap.

    There are no FEMA camps.

  12. Post #11

    #11
    Gold Member+ TAEZZAR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    OREGON
    Posts
    3,919
    Thanks
    5,932
    Thanked 4,874 Times in 1,861 Posts

    Default Re: Are We Losing Civilian Control Of The Military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alric View Post
    They are big enough to hold a coffin, because they are burial vaults. Coffins go inside them. Look it up.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burial_vault_(enclosure)

    Why would the government make two person coffins? That is just silly. Like I said, they would just do a mass grave. And why would you put ashes in a coffin? You can just dump ashes out in the woods some place or let the wind blow them away. Ashes are not toxic to the environment, you can put them any where you want.


    The 10 regions that Jesse refers to goes back to Nixon & beyond. This a favorite subject of mine. Wanna engage ??

  13. Post #12

    #12
    Gold Member+ TAEZZAR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    OREGON
    Posts
    3,919
    Thanks
    5,932
    Thanked 4,874 Times in 1,861 Posts

    Default Re: Are We Losing Civilian Control Of The Military?

    Quote Originally Posted by AG Stacker View Post
    You're falling into the conspiracy theorist trap.

    There are no FEMA camps.
    Wake up !! You have yer head in the sand !!
    Or, hopefully you are being sarcastic.

    http://dcclothesline.wordpress.com/2...rt-with-obama/

  14. Post #13

    #13
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    548
    Thanks
    508
    Thanked 488 Times in 245 Posts

    Default Re: Are We Losing Civilian Control Of The Military?

    Quote Originally Posted by TAEZZAR View Post
    Or, hopefully you are being sarcastic.
    I am. Gotta mess with the ones that read from a playbook.

  15. Post #14

    #14
    Midas Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    4,415
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 1,242 Times in 786 Posts

    Default Re: Are We Losing Civilian Control Of The Military?

    There isn't, but there are buildings.

    There is a national guard training camp. There is an Amtrak repair facility. There is the outdoor warehouse for the burial vaults. All three of those were said to be concentration camps when clearly they are not anything of the sort. People see a big fence and oh it looks scary must be something evil.

    I had an interview at a Frito Lays place once before, and they had like 15 foot tall fences with barb wire on the top. It was apparently in a not so friendly neighborhood. By Jesse's logic, that Frito Lays building was a concentration camp.

  16. Post #15

    #15
    Midas Member gringott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    You can't get there from here.
    Posts
    6,027
    Thanks
    11,227
    Thanked 5,092 Times in 2,527 Posts

    Default Re: Are We Losing Civilian Control Of The Military?

    The Military cannot write laws. The Military has no way to fund itself currently. The only way they could even consider independent action is through a coup. A couple of lines in a regulation are more likely there to cover civilian bosses asses if something they order goes wrong. I spent twenty years in the Army. They do absolutely nothing independently - everything is ordered from above with little or no leeway for interpretation. The higher an officer goes, the less independent decisions and actions would be condoned. If you think otherwise, I suspect your military experience is from watching TV and movies. If troops are used within the USA against civilians, it is because a civilian ordered it. Not because some officer decided to take action.

    In other countries there are examples, Egypt the officer corps owns the tourist resorts and a piece of any thriving business. Saw the same thing in Honduras - if you want to have a business in Hondo, you have to make an officer a partner. These armies can and do act independently from civilian control. Hell, the Egyptian Army at this point I would suspect more likely takes orders from the CIA than the civilian government.

    Here, the money is appropriated by Congress. If the Congress thought the Military was doing something wrong, cut off the funds. It will stop quick. You don't rise to the top of the military food chain because you showed an independent streak from the civilian government. It's no different than you as an employee. You can talk all the crap you want about your company, but if you don't have any cash of your own, all they got to do is cut off your pay. You are no longer anything.

    The CIA is what you should be worrying about. They are self-funding. Drug business, black ops etc. They take money from the FedGov of course. But they have a "business" of their own and unaccountable to anyone funds. Don't think they are above "removing" anyone trying to shut them down. The letters JFK or RFK or MLK mean anything to you?
    Serfs Up! ˙ɹǝʌo ɹoʇıuoɯ ɹnoʎ uɹnʇ 'sıɥʇ pɐǝɹ uɐɔ noʎ ɟı

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to gringott For This Useful Post:

    REO 54 (05-18-2013)

  18. Post #16

    #16
    Midas Member gringott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    You can't get there from here.
    Posts
    6,027
    Thanks
    11,227
    Thanked 5,092 Times in 2,527 Posts

    Default Re: Are We Losing Civilian Control Of The Military?

    FEMA is a federal agency that has the mission of planning for emergencies, and reacting to them according to federal law.

    They would be remiss if they didn't plan for riots or other disorders within the USA. Don't think it can happen? What about the 1960's. I saw Chicago burn with my own eyeballs, and other cities burning on TV. I don't know what the unit was patrolling Ashland Ave on the SW side, but they had 1/4 ton jeeps with .50 cals, guess what? A civilian ordered that. Detroit got the 82d Airborne. A civilian ordered that deployment. It was in my lifetime.

    LA riots? Anyone forgot those? They deployed the Marines and my old unit 7th Inf Div (L). A civilian ordered that.

    Try to think logically. You work in an office at FEMA. You are charged with planning for emergencies. Once you have planned how to react to various weather disasters, what do you plan next? Nothing? Of course not. You plan for the next most likely emergency. And on and on. If they didn't plan, they would be wrong and should be fired. Now that does not mean they expect it to happen or they will cause it to happen.

    I have been hearing about those camps for years. Sure is a bad investment. Not one GIM2 guy or gal locked up there yet. It will be rubble before one is, I think.

    We have more important things to worry about than this crap. Worry about the civilians running the show in Congress that are totally out of control and blackmailed / paid off by their masters. That is the head of the snake and the true destroyer of the Republic. Not some silly line in a DoD regulation or FEMA plastic boxes.
    Serfs Up! ˙ɹǝʌo ɹoʇıuoɯ ɹnoʎ uɹnʇ 'sıɥʇ pɐǝɹ uɐɔ noʎ ɟı

  19. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to gringott For This Useful Post:

    REO 54 (05-18-2013), searcher (05-18-2013)

  20. Post #17

    #17
    Gold Member gonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    1,655
    Thanks
    233
    Thanked 555 Times in 333 Posts

    Default Re: Are We Losing Civilian Control Of The Military?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alric View Post
    There isn't enough 'fema camps' to hold even half of 1% of the US population. The idea that the fema camps that are designed to hold like 500 people are mass concentration camps are silly. Also the big plastic coffins are not coffins but burial vaults that you place coffins inside when you bury someone, because those pretty coffins would be crushed by the earth above it.

    Those huge fields of 'coffins' is just an outdoor warehouse for those burial vaults for a company called Vantage products. There is only like 50,000 in the warehouse not the like millions people report and the reason they have a lot is because 2.5 million people die every year and the burial vaults and grave liners are required by law in many states.

    http://vantageproducts.com/
    This is true, if they do murder the population en mass, do people really think they are going to take the ****ing time to put each person in a coffin and bury them LOL

    They would just dig a huge hole and burn the bodies and be done with it, cheaper and much more efficient.

    These crazy FEMA conspiracy stories are illogical and ridiculous. I am not saying everything is peachy, its not, but THAT CRAP is not a part of the plan.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

The Quotes are powered by Investing.com