Gold Is Money -- Gold is Money -  The Premier Gold and Silver Forum -- Goldismoney Gold Is Money -- Gold is Money -  The Premier Gold and Silver Forum -- Goldismoney
Welcome Guest, is this your first visit?
Register today to gain access to all of our features which include creating topics, replying back to posts, private messaging and much more!

What are you waiting for?
Already Joined?
Sign into your account now
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: 95 Year old WW2 Veteran tasered and killed by police.

  1. Post #1

    #1
    Midas Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    8,821
    Thanks
    1,868
    Thanked 5,499 Times in 2,881 Posts

    Default 95 Year old WW2 Veteran tasered and killed by police.

    http://burnpit.legion.org/2013/08/95...nd-shot-police

    95 year old WWII veteran killed after being tased and shot by police





    August 4th, 2013 by MOTHAX

    320




    « Previous story

    Next story »
    .


    95 year old WWII veteran killed after being tased and shot by police

    Greetings from Sturgis, SD on a delightful day which is blemished only by this story which has me fairly furious:



    When John Wrana was a young man, fit and strong and fighting in World War II with the U.S. Army Air Corps, did he ever think he'd end this way?

    Just a few weeks shy of his 96th birthday, in need of a walker to move about, cops coming through the door of his retirement home with a Taser and a shotgun.



    The old man, described by a family member as "wobbly" on his feet, had refused medical attention. The paramedics were called. They brought in the Park Forest police.

    First they tased him, but that didn't work. So they fired a shotgun, hitting him in the stomach with a bean-bag round. Wrana was struck with such force that he bled to death internally, according to the Cook County medical examiner.

    "The Japanese military couldn't get him at the age he was touchable, in a uniform in the war. It took 70 years later for the Park Forest police to do the job," Wrana's family attorney, Nicholas Grapsas, a former prosecutor, said in an interview with me Thursday.

    Wow. I'm sure there is another side to this, but I'm hard pressed to imagine a series of events that somehow results in SWAT team members with shields storming into a 95 year old man's room and shooting him while he sat in his chair. There clearly wasn't an iminent threat, couldn't they just have waited him out? The home didn't want them storming in there. And what is the charge for resisting medical attention? Even if he was some sort of threat to other residents (which he clearly wasn't at the time he was in his chair) couldn't they have used some other means of restraining him? He had a walker....

    Here's video from the Chicago Tribune of the reporter who spoke with the attorney.





    The picture above is him with his wife in 2005. Helen Wrana passed later that year. The only positive that I can see in any of this is that now he is by her side again. But just so sad.

    Posted in the burner | 254 comments

    320



    « Previous story

    Next story »
    .




    * To comment without a Facebook account, please scroll to the bottom.









    83USAFR92

    August 4, 2013 - 8:41pm

    Permalink









    Good Gods, is this the society we served to protect with our lives if necessary!?
    reply
    .






    DirtDiver76 (not verified)

    August 5, 2013 - 11:45am

    Permalink









    yes, unfortunately, we now live in a society that is so fickle and retarded that most do not remember what our nation was founded upon. It does break a veteran's heart to see how service members are treated, regardless of their age or the wars they fought in. It seems that anymore, unless a veteran's story serves the purpose of those who are destroying this nation, they are treated like cattle or worse.

    When the towers fell in 2001, the nation rallied and demanded action, to ensure our freedom, but over the past 5 years, they have forgotten all that, and squandered the lives of those that fought to protect it.
    reply
    .






    Ed (not verified)

    August 8, 2013 - 3:09pm

    Permalink






    So many folks are taking the freedom they have for granted... Is it a requirement that something be lost before its value is reccognized these days ???
    reply
    .





    Al Bach (not verified)

    August 8, 2013 - 3:37pm

    Permalink









    When the towers fell in 2001 the nation did rally and demand action, just as you said, but it was for the most part NOT to ensure our freedom BUT to ensure their individual and collective SAFETY. iI have never gotten over how many people said that they were willing to surrender "some" of their freedom for their safety. The nation is lacking the amount honest journalism, judicial wisdom, a dedicated Congress and familiarty with our National History by the electorate which isrequired to ensure our continuing freedom.
    reply
    .





    Kevin (not verified)

    August 4, 2013 - 9:32pm

    Permalink









    These cops are drunk with power. They just want to use all their little gadgets...tazers, bean bag rounds. They just want to shoot somebody with something.
    reply
    .





    Zim (not verified)

    August 4, 2013 - 11:27pm

    Permalink









    Wouldn't drop the knife, said one report. A 95-year-old man? SWAT team storming through the door with guns drawn? Will somebody give me a break here? This sounds like a SNL skit gone bad. If this account is true, not one of those officers should keep his job. And somebody should go to jail. I'm going to follow this up. We're waaay out of control here. It has to stop.
    reply
    .






    ASISEEIT (not verified)

    August 6, 2013 - 12:24am

    Permalink









    If he had a knife, butter or Bowie, he was armed and a government trained killing machine. He was a US trained solider
    reply
    .






    Bill (not verified)

    August 8, 2013 - 3:52pm

    Permalink






    GIVE ME A BREAK, ARE YOU AS STUPID AS YOU SOUND?
    reply
    .





    Rick (not verified)

    August 8, 2013 - 3:53pm

    Permalink









    He was 95 years old dumb ass
    reply
    .





    CPO BG (not verified)

    August 8, 2013 - 4:11pm

    Permalink






    ASISEEIT, Your an ass.
    reply
    .





    Bron Rock (not verified)

    August 5, 2013 - 12:56am

    Permalink









    I'm just curious to know why didnt he have a right to refuse his meds? Secondly, this is cause for the relevant police procedures concerning such an incident to be reviewed and augmented. Thirdly, the officers involved should face some sort of punishment and/or discharge.
    reply
    .





    James Brancato (not verified)

    August 5, 2013 - 12:24pm

    Permalink









    Unbelievable - they were afraid of a 95 year old man overcoming them? Aren't the police taught how to talk to someone or even how disarm someone who is in a chair and uses a walker without life threating tactics? Surely common sense would tell you that tasering someone 95 years old could cause serious medical injuries or death or that the use of any blunt force to an elderly person (the beanbag projectile) could cause serious injury or death?
    reply
    .





    Patriot Fire (not verified)

    August 5, 2013 - 7:17pm

    Permalink









    This is a DISGRACE. The punks that killed Mr. Wrana aren't fit to wear any uniform or carry a badge. I agree the department should be sued and the cowardly slime responsible for his death should pay the ultimate price, assuming you could fine a prosecutor, judge and jury willing to give the Wrana family justice. Is this the society our brothers and sisters in the military fought so hard to protect? America must do a better of job of protecting the elderly and our children.
    reply
    .





    Bryan (not verified)

    August 6, 2013 - 12:59pm

    Permalink









    A lot of info was edited out of this post. Now,. I'm not defending the actions of the policy as they were still overboard to me, but it seems that leaving out a lot of the info on the incident is an injustice in itself. The police were called to the home because he was threatening staff with a butcher knife. Also, he was not shot with a shotgun, but rather a beanbag fired from a shotgun.

    Like I said, it's wrong how it went down, but don't leave crucial facts of the story out for your own twist. All info is important.
    reply
    .






    MOTHAX (on MAC) (not verified)

    August 8, 2013 - 3:07pm

    Permalink






    If you go to the link above, you can get more info. But because of Copyright laws I can't cut and paste the whole article. But if you read that article, no one seems to know what became of this knife. Including apparently the police.
    reply
    .





    T-rex (not verified)

    August 8, 2013 - 3:19pm

    Permalink






    This should not have gone down this way. The center staff should have just let him the hell alone until he calmed down. Why didn't the cops subdue him while he was holding the cane instead of waiting until he grabbed a knife? (Editor's note: This story originally misspelled the victim's last name, based on incorrect reports from police and the medical examiner's office. The name has been corrected.) A 95-year-old man died of internal bleeding after police fired bean-bag rounds at him during a confrontation in a Park Forest senior living complex, according to an autopsy performed Sunday. Police say John Wrana was threatening staff and paramedics with a metal cane and a 2-foot metal shoehorn when they arrived at the Victory Centre around 8:40 p.m. Friday. Officers ordered him to drop the cane and shoehorn, but Wrana then picked up a "12-inch butcher-type kitchen knife," police said in a statement. Here is the article: The officers used a Taser on him when he refused to comply, police said. But it failed to subdue him and he continued to threaten others, police said. Officers then fired bean bag rounds at Wrana and he dropped the knife, police said. The man was conscious and talking to officers and staff before being transported to St. James Hospital and Health Centers in Chicago, according to authorities. He was transferred to Advocate Christ Medical Center in Oak Lawn, where he died about 2:30 a.m. Saturday, the medical examiner's office said. The Cook County medical examiner's office said the cause of death was hemoperitoneum – bleeding in the stomach area from blunt force trauma from being shot with a bean bag gun.
    reply
    .





    Lamody (not verified)

    August 8, 2013 - 3:20pm

    Permalink









    I can't believe that a police officer is not able to disarm an 95 year old man without having to harm him in any way. It is just unbelievable.
    reply
    .





    Ken (not verified)

    August 8, 2013 - 3:32pm

    Permalink









    Being both a retired veteran and a retired police officer I have learned that there are 12 sides to every story. That Mr Wrana died in it self is sad. His contribution to this nation goes far and beyond that of the 99% of the he population that sits back and calls out the dogs of war to fix their political crisis one after another. We have veterans that soon will be with out healthcare, jobs, and support of a nation that sent them time and time again into hell that was setup and caused by the nations of this world. Sound philosophical? Think about it. Our military is and has been 100% volunteer for over a decade. We are in the longest war of our countries history. This generation (post baby boomer) is in control of the Govt. We warehouse our elderly, dole out medical care to the highest bidder, fire dedicated military personnel so we can have more contractors contribute to political war chests through their magical instruments of war, give medals to some one sitting in a chair hundreds of miles out of harms way.
    Until every person in this country has to anti up for the good of us all we will see more and more of this type of incident. Were any of the officers involved veterans?, Possibly with a TBI or PTSD? Ah another side to the story...What about the staff? Were that well trained medical technicians or minimum wage temporary help?..
    .That Mr Wrana's life ended on such a horrific note is terrible, but there will be more to come.
    reply
    .





    Ron S. (not verified)

    August 8, 2013 - 3:45pm

    Permalink






    I'm a retired police officer and former military police and am alarmed at some of the Incidents that are occurring with the use of force, it's frightening only this morning I read and viewed video's of sheriff's in Texas body cavity searching drivers on the side of the road for suspicion of minor violations, we have swat teams responding to family disputes, roadblock-checkpoints etc..., I know from experience the difficulties of the job but c'mon where is the commons sense and humanity, what happened to the US. constitution, all in the name of safety and security, what are we becoming.
    reply
    .





    Matt E. Valenzuela (not verified)

    August 8, 2013 - 3:48pm

    Permalink






    WWII Veterans should be Honored, not killed by another American. What they went through during the war and to have survived has filled volumes, as books tell us of their expoits and heroisms. Pretty soon, we will not have any more WWII Vets; they are reporting to the Supreme Commandant at the rate of 1000 per day. We are more than certain that we don't need the Police to expedite matters. The last WWI Vet died in February 2011 at the ripe old age of 110, in peace, of natural causes. There are only one-third of Vietnam Veterans left, due to diseases caused by Agent Orange, like diabetes and various cancers; PTSD and Suicides have decimated our ranks. We, as Americans, should look for more ways to help our Veterans, who placed their lives on the line to defend our Country, maintain our Freedoms and not be in a hurry to place them underground. We should Remember what they did, Honor them, Memoralize them.
    reply
    .





    Robert Miller, ... (not verified)

    August 8, 2013 - 3:48pm

    Permalink






    Mr. John Wrana's murder is criminally disgusting and civilly repulsive. When the head of the fish stinks the whole fish stinks. Our present day moral decay, erosion of our former dignified society and Gestapo like enforcement of law is a reflection of our elected representatives and Comander In Chief who pompously strut about Washington, DC for their own egotistical self serving motives and monetary gains at the expense of us, their constiuents. The rest of the World laughs at us and our disolving constitutional freedom and weak, 'wishy washy' resolve in fostering democracy throughout the world. We couldn't even protect and preserve the democratic freedom and personal safety of an individual American veteran named John Wrana. Shame on us all as we are all to blame for allowing this to happen! The police should have looked at this WWII vet as an honored comrad to be aided and celebrated instead of an enemy threat to be tortured and ruthlessly killed as a punishment for being old and ill as the Germans did with the old and infirm in their concentration camps in WWII. As I said, the stink starts with the head of the fish! The whole school of fish is rotten at this point. We veteran patriots need to help effect a change in leadership at all levels for our benefit and the benefit of the generations to come. Let's get going now! God bless America.
    reply
    .






    Paula Walton Sh... (not verified)

    August 8, 2013 - 4:02pm

    Permalink






    Bobby agree with you 100 pct.
    reply
    .





    jaywelco (not verified)

    August 8, 2013 - 3:51pm

    Permalink






    Under no circumstance short of wielding a Ma-Duce should this 96 year old man be considered a threat to anyone except possibly himself if he fell on his own knife. Even one officer should have been able to subdue him if that was even necessary. My Son has just completed the Sheriffs Academy and I know what kind of training they get. THERE WAS NO REASON FOR THIS TO HAPPEN. Please send all of those officers to my location and see what a 69 tear old can do. Bring your SWAT gear you'll need it.
    reply
    .





    Robb (not verified)

    August 8, 2013 - 3:54pm

    Permalink






    Totally un-necessary Use of Force against this man, John Wrana. In all my years(37 so far) in LE & Corrections, I've never seen such an egregious use of force. We're trained(or should be) to use what is called 'verbal judo' to avoid or at least reduce these types of situations happening. A 95 yr old man with a cane and a metal shoehorn? Come on..! I'm 62 and could easily overcome that! And where is/was the alleged 'butcher knife' which seems to have never made it into evidence? Any time there is a death like this ALL the evidence to 'justify' use of force, deadly or not should have been collected--that it hasn't so far shown up makes me doubt the story of the officers, even makes me doubt that they should have been called in the first place. Mr. Wrana HAS a right to refuse medication and the fact that the residence staff were unable to handle what should have been almost an everyday occurrence in such a facility makes me wonder at their competence also. I support fellow officers when they're right, but when they screw up, don't follow established procedures/protocol or use common sense, they need to pay the price.
    reply
    .





    warren loendorf (not verified)

    August 8, 2013 - 4:08pm

    Permalink






    Hey, this is the Chicago area. What do you want the police to be doing? I suppose some of you think they should be out after the gang bangers.
    reply
    .





    Joseph R. Manhe... (not verified)

    August 8, 2013 - 4:09pm

    Permalink






    his is very Sad. Is this how we treat Our Senior Citizen Veterans. This Man was living History and a Survivor of WWII, heads should roll and people responsible should pay dearly for there actions. This is a horrible tragedy. As a certified trainer of the PR24 expandable baton, I know for a fact, even if the Gentlemen was armed with a knife police are adequately trained to handle this situation. There actions with a taser and shotgun bean bag should constitute negligent homicide.
    reply
    .





    S. R. Vermilyea (not verified)

    August 8, 2013 - 4:11pm

    Permalink






    I'm 87 and if a young or middle aged cop can't out run me he should be retired before he hurts himself
    reply
    .





    James Hammond (not verified)

    August 8, 2013 - 4:14pm

    Permalink






    There is no reason one man couldn't have overcome a 96 year old man who needed a walker even to get around. He had every right to refuse medication, but the most this should have brought about was a call to his doctor or his next of kin. There was NO excuse for SWAT even to be called, much less the use of a Tazer and a Bean Bag Shotgun.
    reply
    .





    Edward Ogle Sr. (not verified)

    August 8, 2013 - 4:17pm

    Permalink






    What action is taking place action the police - It should be very hard to claim this as justified.
    reply
    .




    Your name

    Subject




    Comment *





    More information about text formats




    •No HTML tags allowed.
    •Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
    •Lines and paragraphs break automatically.



    Word verification *Type the characters you see in this picture. (verify using audio)
    Type the characters you see in the picture above; if you can't read them, submit the form and a new image will be generated. Not case sensitive.





    .




    Social Links




    95 year old WWII veteran killed after being tased and shot by police
    (7068 views, 254 comments)
    Outrage over Rolling Stone Cover story of Boston Bomber
    (3098 views, 63 comments)
    WaPo: Brand new Afghan HQ that the US will never use
    (1862 views, 15 comments)
    Former Marine Armando Torres still missing in Mexico
    (1418 views, 3 comments)
    Worth County Georgia board of education pulls plug on military kids
    (1184 views, 6 comments)
    George H.W. Bush's shaved head, and the ride at a Legion post for a young boy
    (945 views, 2 comments)
    SGT Reckless in the News
    (756 views, 3 comments)
    RIP Colonel Bud Day, MOH
    (717 views, 6 comments)





    95 year old WWII veteran killed after being tased and shot by police

    (254 comments)




    »Edward Ogle Sr. said...What action is taking place action the police - It should be very hard to claim this as..Read comment




    »James Hammond said...There is no reason one man couldn't have overcome a 96 year old man who needed a walker even to get around. He had every right to refuse..Read comment




    »CPO BG said...ASISEEIT, Your an..Read comment




    » S. R. Vermilyea said...I'm 87 and if a young or middle aged cop can't out run me he should be retired before he hurts..Read comment




    »Joseph R. Manherz, US Army Retired - Past, Post Commander 76 said...his is very Sad. Is this how we treat Our Senior Citizen Veterans. This Man was living History and a Survivor of WWII, heads should roll and people responsible..Read comment




    »warren loendorf said...Hey, this is the Chicago area. What do you want the police to be doing? I suppose some of you think they should be out after the..Read comment




    »Paula Walton Sheridan said...Bobby agree with you 100..Read comment









    Have a tip for us? A link that should appear here? Contact us.
    News from the World of Military and Veterans Issues. Iraq and A-Stan in parenthesis reflects that the author is currently deployed to that theater.
    ..




    © 2013 The American Legion. All Rights Reserved. Terms & Conditions | Privacy Policy | Social Computing Guidelines | Shop Online | Donate | Join the Legion | Legion A-Z | Contact Us
    .

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to southfork For This Useful Post:

    Eyebone (08-08-2013)

  3. Post #2

    #2
    Commodore AgBar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Rust Belt, New York State
    Posts
    1,916
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1,286 Times in 704 Posts

    Default Re: 95 Year old WW2 Veteran tasered and killed by police.

    Wow...sickening. I have no words.

    Just a few weeks shy of his 96th birthday, in need of a walker to move about, cops coming through the door of his retirement home with a Taser and a shotgun.
    So they fired a shotgun
    Shotgun?!?

    I'm sorry, I don't care what ing load you're running, what "tactical situation" you claim to have encountered: if you level a shotgun -- ANY gun -- at a 95-year-old, you are NOT a man, NOT a woman, not anything but a drone.

    Fit adults can't handle a 95-year-old man without shooting him? ing cowards.


    And so what if he refused treatment? Who the are you to tell him what to do?!?



    ...sorry...imagining my grandfathers: both WWII vets, one also Korea.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to AgBar For This Useful Post:

    gringott (08-08-2013)

  5. Post #3

    #3
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    961
    Thanks
    299
    Thanked 267 Times in 177 Posts

    Default Re: 95 Year old WW2 Veteran tasered and killed by police.

    Two sides to every story.

    Their side: He had a knife

    His side: They were harassing him, trying to force him to take something that he knew made him sick.

  6. Post #4

    #4
    Moderator Hystckndle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,385
    Thanks
    2,425
    Thanked 1,941 Times in 1,114 Posts

    Default Re: 95 Year old WW2 Veteran tasered and killed by police.


  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Hystckndle For This Useful Post:

    bemac (08-08-2013)

  8. Post #5

    #5
    Midas Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lake Superior
    Posts
    4,083
    Thanks
    4,452
    Thanked 3,554 Times in 1,715 Posts

    Default Re: 95 Year old WW2 Veteran tasered and killed by police.

    I saw this once on the Andy Griffith Show.
    "Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves"

    -Confuscius- (504BC)

  9. Post #6

    #6
    Gold Member+ Eyebone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,401
    Thanks
    3,999
    Thanked 909 Times in 567 Posts

    Default Re: 95 Year old WW2 Veteran tasered and killed by police.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Paradise View Post
    I saw this once on the Andy Griffith Show.
    You really have nothing like a moral sense.

  10. Post #7

    #7
    Found a gold nugget Metal Miner
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    398
    Thanks
    129
    Thanked 279 Times in 147 Posts

    Default Re: 95 Year old WW2 Veteran tasered and killed by police.

    Looks to me like someone just declared war on someone's family...

    Sec. 16. THE state of war is a state of enmity and destruction: and therefore declaring by word or action, not a passionate and hasty, but a sedate settled design upon another man's life, puts him in a state of war with him against whom he has declared such an intention, and so has exposed his life to the other's power to be taken away by him, or any one that joins with him in his defence, and espouses his quarrel; it being reasonable and just, I should have a right to destroy that which threatens me with destruction: for, by the fundamental law of nature, man being to be preserved as much as possible, when all cannot be preserved, the safety of the innocent is to be preferred: and one may destroy a man who makes war upon him, or has discovered an enmity to his being, for the same reason that he may kill a wolf or a lion; because such men are not under the ties of the commonlaw of reason, have no other rule, but that of force and violence, and so may be treated as beasts of prey, those dangerous and noxious creatures, that will be sure to destroy him whenever he falls into their power.

    Sec. 17. And hence it is, that he who attempts to get another man into his absolute power, does thereby put himself into a state of war with him; it being to be understood as a declaration of a design upon his life: for I have reason to conclude, that he who would get me into his power without my consent, would use me as he pleased when he had got me there, and destroy me too when he had a fancy to it; for no body can desire to have me in his absolute power, unless it be to compel me by force to that which is against the right of my freedom, i.e. make me a slave. To be free from such force is the only security of my preservation; and reason bids me look on him, as an enemy to my preservation, who would take away that freedom which is the fence to it; so that he who makes an attempt to enslave me, thereby puts himself into a state of war with me. He that, in the state of nature, would take away the freedom that belongs to any one in that state, must necessarily be supposed to have a foundation of all the rest; as he that in the state of society, would take away the freedom belonging to those of that society or commonwealth, must be supposed to design to take away from them every thing else, and so be looked on as in a state of war.

    Sec. 18. This makes it lawful for a man to kill a thief, who has not in the least hurt him, nor declared any design upon his life, any farther than, by the use of force, so to get him in his power, as to take away his money, or what he pleases, from him; because using force, where he has no right, to get me into his power, let his pretence be what it will, I have no reason to suppose, that he, who would take away my liberty, would not, when he had me in his power, take away every thing else. And therefore it is lawful for me to treat him as one who has put himself into a state of war with me, i.e. kill him if I can; for to that hazard does he justly expose himself, whoever introduces a state of war, and is aggressor in it.

  11. Post #8

    #8
    Gold Member+ Fanakapan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Limeyland
    Posts
    3,544
    Thanks
    1,759
    Thanked 1,139 Times in 760 Posts

    Default Re: 95 Year old WW2 Veteran tasered and killed by police.

    Under-qualified policemen to whom Market Forces have been applied during the recruitment process.
    I'll be a Daisy if you do

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

The Quotes are powered by Investing.com