Heirloom seeds, Monsanto and garden vegies - will I get plants next year?

[Lamentations]

This is the first year that I have had a garden in a long time. It did ok, but Ive got plans for a much bigger version for next year. I want to grow enough to nearly supply all my vegies year around. Also, instead of getting seed starts at the local big box store, I want to get some heirloom seeds. Monsanto can take a flying, leaping crap!

Im wonder just how bad the seed situation really is. Can I use the seeds from the plants I already have, or is it a safer bet to just get heirloom seeds? Do farmers have to buy seed every year? Is the food in grocery stores all GM/franken-food?

It was only recently that Ive finally been hit with the realization that Ive been eating vegetables that are drastically different from what I had when I was growing up.

Ive got lots more reading to do.

[skyvike]

I'm not an expert by any means but it's my understanding that most "hybrids" do not produce seeds that germinate into the same species.

It may be a by-product of producing he hybrids, and it may be a scheme to control the food supply. I don't care which.

For this reason, I keep heirloom seeds.

There are lots of varieties and info on the web about them.

[ABC123]

Go with heirloom for sure. You will be rewarded with the best tasting veggies you will ever eat. My tomatoes from last year were not all picked (I wasnt around otherwise they definitely would have been on my plate) and we just left the plants do their thing through the winter months with rotten tom's on the vine and some fell in the dirt. Anyway this year we turned all our plots and to my surprise tomatoes began sprouting up all over. Even in plots over 6 feet away. I guess the wind took them, i dont know.

Its amazing what good strong seeds can do.

[skyvike]

Go with heirloom for sure. You will be rewarded with the best tasting veggies you will ever eat. My tomatoes from last year were not all picked (I wasnt around otherwise they definitely would have been on my plate) and we just left the plants do their thing through the winter months with rotten tom's on the vine and some fell in the dirt. Anyway this year we turned all our plots and to my surprise tomatoes began sprouting up all over. Even in plots over 6 feet away. I guess the wind took them, i dont know.

Its amazing what good strong seeds can do.

That's a good point. I hadn't thought of that but another thing to consider is the qualities Monsanto, et al try to achieve when they create hybrids. I don't pretend to know what's in their minds but if I had to guess, I'd say the list, in priority order, probably looks something like this:

1. Fast growth
2. Pretty appearance
3. Ripens off the vine
4. Pest resistance
5. Long shelf life

and so on.

I'm thinking that "nutrition" and "flavor" don't even make the top five.

"Able to reproduce itself" is probably on the top of the list of qualities they want to avoid....

If we think in terms of what's in MONSANTO's best interest, we'll probably come pretty close to what they try to achieve.

[5150female]

Our first year, we went with all heirloom seeds, germinated them under grow lights and got them ready for planting. When we harvested my husband (the German Virgo) seperated out the best genetic specimens and save the seeds. We saved zuccinni, pumpkins, sunflowers, some tomatos, some watermelon, squash, green peppers and pole beans. Everything that he seed saved is doing great. He is fastidious about saving seeds from great plants. He is trying to reduce the need for outside inputs on gardening/producing food. Right now, all we need is water and sun.

[Green Light]

There is a big difference between F1 hybrid vegetables and Monsanto frankenfood genetically-manipulated crops which are generally field crops like soy and corn which have had direct gene splices.

That being said, most F1 hybrid vegetables have been bred for disease resistance or greater productivity, both which are truly a benefit to the home grower. And technically you can save the seeds generated from F1 plants to grow the next year but they will begin to go back to the characteristics of their forebears and they will lack the F1 hybrid vigor.

Personally, with tomatoes, I grow hybrids like Better Boy for the disease resistance. I've also grown many open-pollinated varieties of tomatoes; even some heirlooms from the old country but they can be prone to weaknesses since most of them were selected to be adapted to their climate.
Sweet corn hybrids are another example where an F1 will usually be more productive.

For greens and such, I've found open pollinated varieties to be as good as any hybrid. If you get into saving your own seeds start small and do it right.

[coopersmith]

Hybrid seed is the offspring from the breeding of 2 inbred lines. The inbred lines are maintained and selected for the traits they lend when bred with other lines. A batch of hybrid seed saved from f1 plants can be line bred for homogenous traits. Were you to sprout and grow out f2 seed in a decent sized population (seed from the f1 cross) you would likely get plants expressing the full genetic spectrum of the parents of the f1 cross. Plant breeders generally will take a cross to f2 and grow it out to 'see whats in there' if the seedlot is of interest.

Monsanto doesnt own all the seed companies. Many places to have their own breeding programs.

Some varieties of heirloom seed are tired, primarily becuase of inbreeding depression. Diciccio brocoli would be one such example.

www.seedsavers.com
www.sandhillpreservation.com

[Lamentations]

Anyone ever use Sustainable Seed Company?

[AMforPM]

If you want to be sure next year's crop is the same as this years get non hybrid seeds. In my experience when they call a non hybrid seed 'heirloom' they double the price. (though not always)

I have had hybrid tomatoes fall and sprout the next year in a bed I wasn't using that year and what a wide range of plants showed up! For example one had large white blooms and marble size fruit that fell off w/o ripening. It was pretty, but no use for food production.

If others garden within about a football field of your garden their plants could pollinate yours via helpful insects. So if your next door neighbor gardens and you want to save seed, hand pollinate a few blooms near the end of that plant's productive time and cover it with a paper sandwich type bag (plastic will make it hot and sticky in there and might ruin the whole effort) and a rubber band to keep out other pollen. The seeds from the fruits you grow protected that way will be your original variety for sure.

If no one else is growing anything that is a close relative to your plant, say cucumbers, near you, no precautions are needed. All your seeds will be fine if you don't start with hybrid seeds.