First Spouse Coins

[HistoryStudent]

http://www.coincollectingnews.org/at...508#more-16508


Interesting things happening like LOW sales....





Pull the trigger....

[Master_Ho]

Just curious who that worked out for you. Did they grade the same or better and/or did they grade them and not crack them? I was thinking about sending some NGC MS69 to PCGS.
Thanks

They almost always cross-graded, never had them not - in one instance they increased a grade........

Hope that helps!

Cheers!

[Milanion]

I have no relation to this company, but they have a couple available at $890 with current spot of $1722 that is a $29 premium over spot for a 1/2 oz coin already graded.

http://jmrcoins.com/First-Spouse-Series_c2.htm

(for validity sake since their site looks a little sparse, they do have an eBay account: http://myworld.ebay.com/jmrcoins-200...id=p4340.l2559 )

Mighty tempting for me...

[npd1078]

Lowest price on a Julia Tyler I have seen in a while. Wonder if buyers are starting to think she will be the 2nd lowest mintage Spouse soon.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/290669049048...fvi%3D1&_rdc=1

[HistoryStudent]

Lowest price on a Julia Tyler I have seen in a while. Wonder if buyers are starting to think she will be the 2nd lowest mintage Spouse soon.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/290669049048...fvi%3D1&_rdc=1

Any MS gold coin under 5,000 is fantastic: as is any PF gold coin under 6,500.

There are a lot of spouses like that = 16 MS so far; & 11 PF so far.

[hernancortes]

Thought I'd update some info I had from a post I made awhile ago in the 'Jordan/Modern Commemorative Coins' thread:

Barring some freak Mint-induced anomaly I see no spouse eclipsing the modern mintage Kings, the Burnished '06 to '08 platinum Eagles. Several of those have mintages below 3,000 with the lowest being about 2250. But that's not to say the best spouses won't trounce burnished plats since plat collectors are a very small group. Anyway in a fit of inspired geekdom I created a spreadsheet of spouse sales by week for every week they've been on sale. My work remains unfinished but the data is interesting. No unc spouse has failed to reach 1000 yet by week 3 or 2000 by week 20. Eliza unc may go off sale 2 months early (delayed release) just as Julia did but after week 9 she's only sold about 90 fewer than Julia had at that point and the element of surprise w/ the spouses is pretty much gone.

Today I went back through historical sales data and it looks like Hayes unc sold just 1900 at the 20-week point, Garfield is selling lower than Hayes at the 10 week point, and it remains to be seen exactly when Eliza will cease sales since there's no word from the mint yet when the first 2012 spouse will debut--- based on the last several years the first one of the year debuts early in March, and Eliza's sales end should coincide with that. Her sales have totally collapsed the last few months.

[lightcycler]

Just picked up a PCGS FS MS 70 Grant on E bay for under $1200. Very excited about getting that one in the fold. Sold a set of 5 sealed 25th's for $4500 so picking up some of the First Spouses I want.

[HistoryStudent]

Just picked up a PCGS FS MS 70 Grant on E bay for under $1200. Very excited about getting that one in the fold. Sold a set of 5 sealed 25th's for $4500 so picking up some of the First Spouses I want.

Good long term move.

Don't forget the UNLOVED "P" satin UNC 5 oz. ATB puckers.

buy low mintage current stuff near spot cheap.

http://www.coincollectingnews.org/el...532#more-16532


***************************************

AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL 5 OZ SILVER UNCIRCULATED COINS
Vicksburg National Military Park 1,752 1,688 1,036 12,337
Olympic National Park 467 715 478 13,598
Glacier National Park 339 568 450 16,165
Gettysburg National Military Park 373 592 565 19,109
Mount Hood National Forest 97 NLA NLA 26,928
Grand Canyon National Park NLA NLA NLA 26,019
Yosemite National Park NLA NLA NLA 27,000
Yellowstone National Park NLA NLA NLA 27,000
Hot Springs National Park NLA NLA NLA 27,000


************************************************** *


FIRST SPOUSE GOLD COINS
Eliza Johnson Proof (2011) 16 13 5 3,745
Eliza Johnson Uncirculated (2011) 4 10 5 2,748
Julia Grant Proof (2011) 19 12 7 3,882
Julia Grant Uncirculated (2011) 12 10 7 2,512
Lucy Hayes Proof (2011) 29 26 15 3,029
Lucy Hayes Uncirculated (2011) 18 17 7 1,942
Lucretia Garfield Proof (2011) 74 34 32 2,407
Lucretia Garfield Uncirculated (2011) 13 31 24 1,494

****************************************


Opportunities KNOCK just look, figure, and stack.

[lightcycler]

Ya picked up a few of the Chickasaw's. Have at least one each to this point. Beggining to pick up more as we go and the mintages drop.

[HistoryStudent]

Closing time is around $1,800

All the spouses look prettier at closing time....

This one really has a quick beat put on your dancing shoes...

[HistoryStudent]

They are really dead in sales...

Here's about the LIGHTS going out on Johnson's LOW-BALL'ER....


http://www.peterplanchet.com/firstspousecoins.html

[lightcycler]

They are really dead in sales...

Here's about the LIGHTS going out on Johnson's LOW-BALL'ER....


http://www.peterplanchet.com/firstspousecoins.html

Got another Grant PCGS MS70 FS on the way for $1070 shipped on JMR Coins website. Not much of a selection but dang good price.

[lightcycler]

Guys I found PCGS MS 70 FS Garfields at Silver town for $1179. Every place else I've looked has been over $1300. I think its a good one for sure.

[HistoryStudent]

http://catalog.usmint.gov/wcsstore/C...ldCoinGrid.pdf


At least they know what they will charge when gold is $3,000.00, right?

Well, $2999.99 anyway...


Not to funny be to be serious: why did they run platinum prices to $3,500 and gold only to $3,000, HUH?

[HistoryStudent]

FIRST SPOUSE GOLD COINS
Eliza Johnson Proof (2011) 16 13 5 3,745
Eliza Johnson Uncirculated (2011) 4 10 5 2,748
Julia Grant Proof (2011) 19 12 7 3,882
Julia Grant Uncirculated (2011) 12 10 7 2,512
Lucy Hayes Proof (2011) 29 26 15 3,029
Lucy Hayes Uncirculated (2011) 18 17 7 1,942
Lucretia Garfield Proof (2011) 74 34 32 2,407
Lucretia Garfield Uncirculated (11) 13 31 24 1,494


They only sold 102 spouses total this last week. 8 coins divided by 102 = 12 coins PER spouse average.



Hey does anybody know when the PAUL coin is supposed to be available. If they keep waiting gold will be over TWO GRAND soon.

[Milanion]

Hey does anybody know when the PAUL coin is supposed to be available. If they keep waiting gold will be over TWO GRAND soon.

Maybe they think she's related to Ron Paul and are waiting for the primaries to wrap up first?

Either that or it's going to be like the 2010 ATB's and they'll all be released late in the year to build excitement up, available for purchase for 5 hours only like the 25th anniversary eagle set.

[NotTheOne]

Alice Paul is the first coin in 2012. So what Milanion says may be true. Or at least a good argument.

http://firstspousecoinguide.com/firs...release-dates/

[HistoryStudent]

Alice Paul is the first coin in 2012. So what Milanion says may be true. Or at least a good argument.

http://firstspousecoinguide.com/firs...release-dates/

The Johnson coin run longer then a year after 5-5-12?

She's right now 3-20-12 about even steven with Tyler II uncs.

[hernancortes]

Historical unc. Spouse sales at week 15 of availability

E Monroe 4025
L Adams 2585
Jackson ?
Van Buren ?
A Harrison 2364
L Tyler 2313
J Tyler 2230
S Polk 2221
M Taylor 1820
A Fillmore 2472
J Pierce 2103
Buchanan ?
M Lincoln 2708
E Johnson 2200
J Grant 2231
L Hayes 1794
Garfield 1617

[lightcycler]

Looking back Eliza went on sale May 5 2011. Mrs Grant headed out June 23. Hayes was Sept 1 and Garfield Dec 1. We still have more than a month for Eliza if the schedule is similar this year.

[hernancortes]

Grant Proof just went backorder with last report just a few sales shy of 4000. Coincidence? Probably not and should be taken as an indication as to how many proofs the mint is striking at least initially for the newer issues.

[lightcycler]

Grant Proof just went backorder with last report just a few sales shy of 4000. Coincidence? Probably not and should be taken as an indication as to how many proofs the mint is striking at least initially for the newer issues.

And here I've been concentrating on the MS's. If you look at it a good guess might be that they struck 4000 proofs and 3000 ms's. That would allow for the ms's to go over the tyler key but all the proofs will come in as the lowest at least 800 below pierce. Man this game is sort of fun but hard to keep on top of. The PF70 FS PCGS's are already up a bit like in the $1400 range because of the low pops. If I was a rich man I'd load the wagons. Sitting on too many 25th sets lol. Damned if you do damned if you don't.

[NotTheOne]

Per coinupdate 3/20/12

FIRST SPOUSE GOLD COINS

Eliza Johnson Proof (2011)------------3,807
Eliza Johnson Uncirculated (2011)------2,845
Julia Grant Proof (2011)---------------3,964
Julia Grant Uncirculated (2011)--------2,575
Lucy Hayes Proof (2011)--------------3,110
Lucy Hayes Uncirculated (2011)-------2,004
Lucretia Garfield Proof (2011)---------2,590
Lucretia Garfield Uncirculated (2011)--1,633

[HistoryStudent]

Grant Proof just went backorder with last report just a few sales shy of 4000. Coincidence? Probably not and should be taken as an indication as to how many proofs the mint is striking at least initially for the newer issues.

Rather PROFOUND comment above.

Especially considering that for 200 years the NEW normal would place each minted gold spouse coin, no matter uncirculated or proof, each into the lowest 50 coins EVER minted and made by the US Mint. And fact that like I mentioned already is PROFOUND.

Of course (because of the fact that they are making already over twenty-something coins in each series) they are making a BUBBLE out of low mintage spouses.

The simple thing is that if you purchase bullion anyway - buy the coins as they come out.

By 2016 ish you'll see you THAT have in your possession - one hell of a couple of sets.


PS the US Mint doesn't expect too many sales for these even though they are so unique.

The female gold cornerstones that the builder collectors rejected.

[hernancortes]

Everyone who checks into this thread surely has read Jordan's book by now, but the implications of anticipated demand are important to grasp. The mint does an initial production based on what they think the demand for the coins will be. The mint does a lot wrong but for several years they have been pretty good at guessing demand for their recurring collectible coins. The demand trend for Spouses is steadily down, and the mint seems to be adjusting their production accordingly. My guess is they will strike as few spouses as they can get away with without a protest from customers, and who is going to care for example that Grant proof was only available for 9 months instead of twelve. If they struck about 4000 each of the 2011 Proofs then it's not crazy to assume they will strike even fewer in 2012. What this may portend for the uncs. would be mildly incredible if grant, hayes, and garfield finish sales below 3,000 for that would mean they may strike the latter 2012's in the mid to upper 2000's. Burnished platinum type numbers, in other words. So when I said that would probably not happen it turns out I was wrong - again. lol

[shallow_explorer]

MCM has PR69 in either PCGS or NGCer slab for $919, that's $85 under USMint price. Julia Tyler PR69 PCGS (current low mintage proof at 4,830 coins) is listed at $1600. Just sayin.

[lightcycler]

MCM has PR69 in either PCGS or NGCer slab for $919, that's $85 under USMint price. Julia Tyler PR69 PCGS (current low mintage proof at 4,830 coins) is listed at $1600. Just sayin.

I saw those for sure. Need to pull the trigger before they reprice.

[savvydon]

The mint says that they are back ordered but will be available in early April. Does this indicate a willingness to dust off last years dies and create additional coins as demand dictates?

[hernancortes]

The mint says that they are back ordered but will be available in early April. Does this indicate a willingness to dust off last years dies and create additional coins as demand dictates?

By the law under which these were created, they cannot do that.

[savvydon]

Well then what is the circumstance which would motivate the mint to suddenly place the coin on back order and yet indicate that it will be available for shipment in some two weeks time?

[hernancortes]

Well then what is the circumstance which would motivate the mint to suddenly place the coin on back order and yet indicate that it will be available for shipment in some two weeks time?

Honestly I don't know if that "shipment will be available..." thing means much. Someone on another forum who claimed knowlege of how the mint operates with its distribution center and customer returns explained how it all works.... i can't seem to find it but it made sense to me. At any rate based on past experience if the red backorder message comes up in the catalog a sellout is imminent IF the mint cannot strike more and in the case of prior-year dated spouses, they cannot. I would expect the "product soldout" message to pop up soon but at the rate spouses are bought maybe not for a few days. We'll see

[Milanion]

Well then what is the circumstance which would motivate the mint to suddenly place the coin on back order and yet indicate that it will be available for shipment in some two weeks time?

One circumstance is that the Mint allows returns within 7 days and then they take 1-2 weeks to return them back to inventory.

Another circumstance is that if your shipping and billing address are different when you order, they send out a letter to your billing address as a confirmation. (I've received one before) If the person doesn't respond, then they'll make the product available again for others.

[HistoryStudent]

I remember that "shipment will be available"

on a few 2011 25th anniversary sets I had and in the end they gave me the

you-know-what extended finger thingie....

[lightcycler]

Just Bought a Hayes and Garfild PCGS PR69 FS's for 899 at Silvertowne. $25 shippling. They have been my spouse source lately

[savvydon]

Just Bought a Hayes and Garfild PCGS PR69 FS's for 899 at Silvertowne. $25 shippling. They have been my spouse source lately

Great tip! Currently less than 10% premium above melt for a scarce coin in a liquid holder.

[lightcycler]

Sales have really ground to a halt.


FIRST SPOUSE GOLD COINS

Eliza Johnson Proof (2011) 3,811 4
Eliza Johnson Uncirculated (2011) 2,847 2
Julia Grant Proof (2011) 3,968 4
Julia Grant Uncirculated (2011) 2,580 5
Lucy Hayes Proof (2011) 3,116 6
Lucy Hayes Uncirculated (2011) 2,007 3
Lucretia Garfield Proof (2011) 2,600 10
Lucretia Garfield Uncirculated (2011) 1,640 7

[hernancortes]

Like clockwork, Grant Proof now sold out.

[HistoryStudent]

Like clockwork, Grant Proof now sold out.

The proofs are averaging a top of 18,000 plus for 2007
then 5800 plus for 2008
then 4,200 plus for 2009
then 5,700 plus for 2010
then around 4,000 plus for 2011 to date.

Imagine AROUND 4,000 mintage in proof coins per separate unit four times a year!


The unc mint states are just similar only around a 1,000 less.

Imagine AROUND 3,000 mintage in UNC mint state coins per separate unit four times a year!


Of course there are unknowns - but the darn things sure smell like LONG TERM winners.

What we do NOT know is the future price(s) and what the US Mint expects for demand - IMVHO "IT AIN'T a hell-of-a-lot."

[savvydon]

The proofs are averaging a top of 18,000 plus for 2007
then 5800 plus for 2008
then 4,200 plus for 2009
then 5,700 plus for 2010
then around 4,000 plus for 2011 to date.

Imagine AROUND 4,000 mintage in proof coins per separate unit four times a year!


The unc mint states are just similar only around a 1,000 less.

Imagine AROUND 3,000 mintage in UNC mint state coins per separate unit four times a year!


Of course there are unknowns - but the darn things sure smell like LONG TERM winners.

What we do NOT know is the future price(s) and what the US Mint expects for demand - IMVHO "IT AIN'T a hell-of-a-lot."

Two things - first, it is possible that as we turn the corner and get into the modern era (20th century) of presidents/spouses we may see a bump in popularity, ala Lincoln.

Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, the numbers may go up if the price of gold drops, in which case these 2011 coins could loom as winners because of low mintage figures. If gold goes up and interest remains low you still have a coin with rising intrinic value by dint of its bullion content. Seems to me about as bullet proof protection from loss as you can get.

[namwalker]

Per coinupdate 3/20/12

FIRST SPOUSE GOLD COINS

Eliza Johnson Proof (2011)------------3,807
Eliza Johnson Uncirculated (2011)------2,845
Julia Grant Proof (2011)---------------3,964
Julia Grant Uncirculated (2011)--------2,575
Lucy Hayes Proof (2011)--------------3,110
Lucy Hayes Uncirculated (2011)-------2,004
Lucretia Garfield Proof (2011)---------2,590
Lucretia Garfield Uncirculated (2011)--1,633

I just ordered the Garfield Uncirculated coin and the Uncirculated Hayes coin to match its proof sister.

However, just a question about timing. Didn't the Grant coin come out after the Johnson coin, could the Johnson coin then be the next coin to bite the dust.

Plus with the announced forthcoming Cleveland presidental coin, is there going to be correstponding Cleveland first spouse coin. I believe they settled on a design, but the issuance date is not listed. Anyone know the answer?

[namwalker]

There used to be a regular knowledgeable contributor by the name of Capthansols. I haven't seen a postings from him for awhile. Anyone know whatever happened to him? I kind of miss his commentary.

[namwalker]

There used to be a regular knowledgeable contributor by the name of Cpthnsols. I haven't seen a postings from him for awhile. Anyone know whatever happened to him? I kind of miss his commentary.

[namwalker]

The proofs are averaging a top of 18,000 plus for 2007
then 5800 plus for 2008
then 4,200 plus for 2009
then 5,700 plus for 2010
then around 4,000 plus for 2011 to date.

Imagine AROUND 4,000 mintage in proof coins per separate unit four times a year!


The unc mint states are just similar only around a 1,000 less.

Imagine AROUND 3,000 mintage in UNC mint state coins per separate unit four times a year!


Of course there are unknowns - but the darn things sure smell like LONG TERM winners.

What we do NOT know is the future price(s) and what the US Mint expects for demand - IMVHO "IT AIN'T a hell-of-a-lot."

I agree that the 2011 coins appear to be certain winners especially in light of the writings of Jordan. 2011 are certain to be key dates to this mintings in one shape of another. If the Cleveland coin is ever released it will also be an almost certain winner. When I started collecting this series I stuck to the proof coins and it looks like I should have gone with the uncirculated coin. Yet I think that no matter what coin you obtained you will end up a winner.

Any comments?....................

[SongSungAU]

There used to be a regular knowledgeable contributor by the name of Cpthnsols. I haven't seen a postings from him for awhile. Anyone know whatever happened to him? I kind of miss his commentary.

Wow..... You're right. Cpthnsolo hasn't posted since January. I hope he's okay.

[hernancortes]

Historical unc. spouse sales at wk. 20 of availability:

Monroe 4102
L Adams 2696
Jackson ?
Van Buren ?
A Harrison 2476
L Tyler 2400
J Tyler 2386
Polk 2311
M Taylor 1997
Fillmore 2525
Pierce 2324
Buchanan ?
M Lincoln 3522
E johnson 2298
Grant 2344
Hayes 1900
Garfield 1680

[lightcycler]

NOT!!!!!! Made ya look

FIRST SPOUSE GOLD COINS
Eliza Johnson Proof (2011) 3,842 5
Eliza Johnson Uncirculated (2011) 2,868 5
Julia Grant Proof (2011) 3,969* 0
Julia Grant Uncirculated (2011) 2,604 9
Lucy Hayes Proof (2011) 3,153 15
Lucy Hayes Uncirculated (2011) 2,028 9
Lucretia Garfield Proof (2011) 2,662 16
Lucretia Garfield Uncirculated (2011) 1,680 22

[lightcycler]

Amazing numbers. Will they go up with the drop in price?


FIRST SPOUSE GOLD COINS
Eliza Johnson Proof (2011) 3,845 3
Eliza Johnson Uncirculated (2011) 2,872 4
Julia Grant Proof (2011) 3,969* 0
Julia Grant Uncirculated (2011) 2,612 8
Lucy Hayes Proof (2011) 3,156 3
Lucy Hayes Uncirculated (2011) 2,029 1
Lucretia Garfield Proof (2011) 2,662 0
Lucretia Garfield Uncirculated (2011) 1,684 4

[michael]

Eliza Johnson Unc. is now on a wait list which basically means it sold out. Who's next?

[hernancortes]

Eliza Johnson Unc. is now on a wait list which basically means it sold out. Who's next?

Wow, with under 2900 sales at last report, it must be a safe bet that they struck fewer than 3000. If that holds it's the new key, until it's unseated which it almost surely will be.
As low as the Johnson, Grant, Hayes and Garfield finish I still maintain the 2012's will come even lower, because they will be struck with lower sales expectations.
At this point the 1st Cleveland spouse looks pretty good, her being very young and not unattractive unlike the vast majority of others. Good looks plus low mintage equals opportunity.
This stuff is proving impossible to predict but some good guesses can be made. If the mint strikes 2012's based on current sales of Hayes and Garfield and gold holds above 1650 for an extended period, the 2006 & 2008 burnished plats will be threatened for modern mintage kings and if that happens I may be dumping some of those plats in favor of uglies. 2000 gold US type coins are just not a lot and if you have multiples you are sitting pretty for the long haul. They are ugly but the market clearly favors gold US coins over platinum.

[michael]

Wow, with under 2900 sales at last report, it must be a safe bet that they struck fewer than 3000. If that holds it's the new key, until it's unseated which it almost surely will be.
As low as the Johnson, Grant, Hayes and Garfield finish I still maintain the 2012's will come even lower, because they will be struck with lower sales expectations.
At this point the 1st Cleveland spouse looks pretty good, her being very young and not unattractive unlike the vast majority of others. Good looks plus low mintage equals opportunity.
This stuff is proving impossible to predict but some good guesses can be made. If the mint strikes 2012's based on current sales of Hayes and Garfield and gold holds above 1650 for an extended period, the 2006 & 2008 burnished plats will be threatened for modern mintage kings and if that happens I may be dumping some of those plats in favor of uglies. 2000 gold US type coins are just not a lot and if you have multiples you are sitting pretty for the long haul. They are ugly but the market clearly favors gold US coins over platinum.

I think the 2012's will be pretty low mintages but i think they will start to pick up in sales once we get to more modern presidents starting with mckinley. No way I am ever giving up my 2008 $50 burnished plat eagles. They are finally moving higher in price. There are modern winners all over the place right now.