First Spouse Coins

[HistoryStudent]

Thanks HS, I promise I WILL buy & read the book, but under your argument would it be better to get a couple of ugly FSs or one pretty Jackson??

Two is always better then ONE.


Look at Grant and Johnson first in MS.

They are BOTH sleepers from the crowd. I'm NOW picking up duplicates of my duplicate sets.

[Curio Bill]

Two is always better then ONE.


Look at Grant and Johnson first in MS.

They are BOTH sleepers from the crowd. I'm NOW picking up duplicates of my duplicate sets.

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!

"spoon-feeding" is a very good thing !!

[HistoryStudent]

MINT STATES Minted
Washington MS 17661
Adams I MS 17142
Jefferson MS 19823
Madison MS 12340
Monroe MS 4462
Adams II MS 3885
Jackson MS 4609
Van Buren MS 3826
Harrison MS 3645
Tyler I MS 3240
Tyler II MS 3143
Polk MS 3489
Taylor MS 3629
Fillmore MS 3482
Pierce MS 3338
Buchanan MS 5162
Lincoln MS 3695
Johnson MS "key" 2905
Grant MS 2777
Hayes MS 2146
Garfield MS 1934
Paul - Authur 0
Cleveland I 0

Sub total MSs 126333

PROOFS
Washington PF 19167
Adams I PF 17149
Jefferson PF 19815
Madison PF 17943
Monroe PF 7800
Adams II PF 6581
Jackson PF 7684
Van Buren PF 6807
Harrison PF 6251
Tyler I PF 5296
Tyler II PF 4844
Polk PF 5151
Taylor PF 4941
Fillmore PF 6130
Pierce PF 4775
Buchanan PF 7110
Lincoln PF 6766
Johnson PF "key" 3906
Grant PF semi-key 3969
Hayes PF 3311
Garfield PF 2905
Paul - Authur 0
Cleveland I 0

Sub total PFs 168301


A very overlooked under minted series by the US Govy in 220 years.

Under 4,000 MS and Under 5,000 PF are really nice bets bought close to spot and held close for probably 10 years.

[cpthnsolo]

The way that the mint is handling the 1st spouse coins is a crying shame. They will definitely wait until late in the year (as has been discussed here) before releasing them to the buying public. When they do release them they will have a high premium on them.

This is truly a FUBAR situation that they are creating for this coin series. They have done the same thing to the 5oz hockey pucks for the ATB series. A lot of people that I know have walked away from them and are considering doing the same to the 1st spouse coins.

To speak the truth, there is not a lot of people who can afford to spend the money on either of these sets. Each new release in the spouse series will be lower mintage than the preceding one.

The mint has created a recipie for disaster for the spouse sets in the way that they are handling this series. In mvho I do believe that the mint has lost interest in this series and is working hard to create a reason to stop the series all together. There is no reason why the mint could not have already released the first two coins of this series if for no other reason than to keep in step with the presidential counterparts.

Everything above is *exactly* why these coins have a chance of being worth something at some point down the road. Folks simply hate spouse coins right now and sales figures are falling to the floor. I'll admit that I hate the fact the precious few I've chucked in the retention pond aren't worth peanuts these days, but patience will win the day with these. Speaking of being patient, read this thread for info of the NEWEST KEY of the spouse coins. Not only is it a key, but it is a DEEP key for the moment. Granted I bet we see others close with uber-low sales, but for the moment I'm pleased to have an example in the retention pond down the street

[AU+AG=Bacon]

ARRGG!!

Just got paid and missed Hayes by a day. I got Garfield though! hunting for hayes now!

Bacon

[AU+AG=Bacon]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2011-W-10-GO...item53ee2f6e2a

A little bit late on the Hayes bandwagon!

[cpthnsolo]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2011-W-10-GO...item53ee2f6e2a

A little bit late on the Hayes bandwagon!

Interesting...out of the dozen or so non-eBay sites that I know to check everyone is out of the Hayes coin already. There are undoubtedly a few out there on smaller dealers' websites, but I can't find them. Sorry for not posting that eBay auction link earlier AuAgB, but I suppose it was too late anyway . I bet if your google-foo is strong you can still find one cheap somewhere online . Heck, maybe someone here reading this will luck out at their coin dealer this week with one

[hernancortes]

It's kind of nice to see the series wake up after about a year and a half of dormancy. With mintage numbers such as these (and for the umpteenth time I still believe they have a good chance of going lower in 2012 because of mint policy) the series will be seen as extremely difficult to collect in in say 7-8 years. The sheer challenge inherent in the task may mitigate against the forces of ugly in propelling the prices of each semi-key, of which there will be many. I still doubt a clear mintage key will happen -- yes for the moment it's hayes but is garfield minted in the same numbers? I say yes. Then onto the 2012's.

[cpthnsolo]

It may be best to call this guy before ordering since the shopping cart on the site isn't real time (I was able to add 999 to my cart), but here's a Hayes coin for $1250:

[EDIT -- The coin has sold!]

That's really the upper-end of what I would consider reasonable at this point. Honestly for anything past that price you may as well buy the Garfield coin and cross your fingers. DYODD of course...

[ChoiceBU]

Too late, Garfield gone.

[NotTheOne]

MCM has 2 Lucy Hayes in ogp for $929 ea if anyone is interested.

[cpthnsolo]

Too late, Garfield gone.
Yeah, I just noticed that about an hour ago. I immediately hit eBay and saw several there, but no PCGS MS70(FS) (yes I was being greedy ). During the half hour or so that I spent looking for a pcgs FS 70 example, the few cheap ones on eBay sold and all that's left is this auction for $1295 (but I'm sure it will disappear any second).

FWIW it would appear that the Garfield now has a shot at coming in under 2000. If that were to actually happen it would be an instant winner, however it would also make the Hayes coin a lot less special as well :\. I just went through a bunch of sites and the only remaining Garfield coins that I know of are the eBay auction above and a $1500 pcgs70 (non-FS) at Apmex. If anyone reading this can find the MS coin for a reasonable price please post it here if you're going to pass on it.

Keep in mind the backorder notification may be temporary and the mint may very well sell more of them, however given the fact Hayes is done I think there's a very real chance Garfield may be as well. Good luck searching everyone!!!

MCM has 2 Lucy Hayes in ogp for $929 ea if anyone is interested.

That's the poof coin, not the uncirculated coin but thank you for tying to help .

[EDIT -- Looks like the guy raised the price on the eBay auction above to $1785!]

[ChoiceBU]

Too late, Garfield gone.
Yeah, I just noticed that about an hour ago. I immediately hit eBay and saw several there, but no PCGS MS70(FS) (yes I was being greedy ). During the half hour or so that I spent looking for a pcgs FS 70 example, the few cheap ones on eBay sold and all that's left is this auction for $1295 (but I'm sure it will disappear any second).

FWIW it would appear that the Garfield now has a shot at coming in under 2000. If that were to actually happen it would be an instant winner, however it would also make the Hayes coin a lot less special as well :\. I just went through a bunch of sites and the only remaining Garfield coins that I know of are the eBay auction above and a $1500 pcgs70 (non-FS) at Apmex. If anyone reading this can find the MS coin for a reasonable price please post it here if you're going to pass on it.

Keep in mind the backorder notification may be temporary and the mint may very well sell more of them, however given the fact Hayes is done I think there's a very real chance Garfield may be as well. Good luck searching everyone!!!




That's the poof coin, not the uncirculated coin but thank you for tying to help .

[EDIT -- Looks like the guy raised the price on the eBay auction above to $1785!]

Well, the suspended order went through but the Garfield unc still says backordered 8/22, so we'll see.

[HistoryStudent]

It's kind of nice to see the series wake up after about a year and a half of dormancy. With mintage numbers such as these (and for the umpteenth time I still believe they have a good chance of going lower in 2012 because of mint policy) the series will be seen as extremely difficult to collect in in say 7-8 years. The sheer challenge inherent in the task may mitigate against the forces of ugly in propelling the prices of each semi-key, of which there will be many. I still doubt a clear mintage key will happen -- yes for the moment it's hayes but is garfield minted in the same numbers? I say yes. Then onto the 2012's.

Well said and written.

I fully expect that this series will be the SUPER SLEEPER SERIES (SSS) of the US Mint's 220 years plus.

I can't imagine what's gonna happen when they release the NEXT 8 coins this year.

The mint can't expect too much in sales with the gold starting to pick-up in price mixed with the slow release.

Think of these like the mother-of-all-sleepers on steroids. That cost an arm and leg now, wait for 7 more years.

[hernancortes]

Latest mint report as of 8/7:

FIRST SPOUSE GOLD COINS

Julia Grant Uncirculated (2011)

2,836
29



Lucy Hayes Proof (2011)

3,352
21

Lucy Hayes Uncirculated (2011)

2,243*
91


Lucretia Garfield Proof (2011)

2,954
23

Lucretia Garfield Uncirculated (2011)

1,973
28

[HistoryStudent]

MINT STATES Minted
Washington MS 17661
Adams I MS 17142
Jefferson MS 19823
Madison MS 12340
Monroe MS 4462
Adams II MS 3885
Jackson MS 4609
Van Buren MS 3826
Harrison MS 3645
Tyler I MS 3240
Tyler II MS 3143
Polk MS 3489
Taylor MS 3629
Fillmore MS 3482
Pierce MS 3338
Buchanan MS 5162
Lincoln MS 3695
Johnson MS 2905
Grant MS 2836
Hayes MS 2243 "key"
Garfield MS 1973
Paul - Authur 0
Cleveland I 0

Sub total MSs 126528

PROOFS
Washington PF 19167
Adams I PF 17149
Jefferson PF 19815
Madison PF 17943
Monroe PF 7800
Adams II PF 6581
Jackson PF 7684
Van Buren PF 6807
Harrison PF 6251
Tyler I PF 5296
Tyler II PF 4844
Polk PF 5151
Taylor PF 4941
Fillmore PF 6130
Pierce PF 4775
Buchanan PF 7110
Lincoln PF 6766
Johnson PF 3907
Grant PF 3969
Hayes PF 3352
Garfield PF 2954
Paul - Authur 0
Cleveland I 0

Sub total PFs 168392



I think Hayes PF is a good time now to think about getting off the dime and moving...

But... that's just a guess...frankly I wish they'd release all 8 spouses for 2012 coins NOW today at the mint before
the mess starts overseas and here...

[michael]

IMO, whether you love the FS series or hate them, uncirculated U.S Gold coins with mintages at approx 2500 and under are EASY money. I don't care how much lower sales trend I think they will be monsters down the line. Hayes at 2250 and Garfield possibly less are low>I don't think people have started to really think about how low these numbers are an probably going lower near term. I think the series will get a boost once we get to presidents of the 1900's.

[hernancortes]

IMO, whether you love the FS series or hate them, uncirculated U.S Gold coins with mintages at approx 2500 and under are EASY money. I don't care how much lower sales trend I think they will be monsters down the line. Hayes at 2250 and Garfield possibly less are low>I don't think people have started to really think about how low these numbers are an probably going lower near term. I think the series will get a boost once we get to presidents of the 1900's.

It is remarkable that the burnished plats are being knocked down the list of lowest mintage moderns coins in a single day. For those hoping for even lower mintage 2012's the worst thing to have happen is for them to debut in say the the next few weeks (which I think they will) and for sales to be unusually strong (which given what just happened with Hayes and Garfield, is a possibility). If the mint sees strong sales they might strike more. This is what exactly happened with Buchanan in 2010.

[Skirnir]

I have been converted. I have seen the light! I want to collect those "hot mamas", with low mintages. May Shirley Booth rest in peace.

My question is the following:

1. Do you recommend graded or ungraded coins? If graded, 69 or 70?
2. Do you recommend proof or uncirculated?

Thank you.

P.S. My endorsement of the First Spouse coins doesn't mean that the mint should abandon my idea of a coin series based on One-Legged Generals of the Civil War.

I would advise buying them only if you would prefer to store your silver in the kitchen

[NotTheOne]

For those hoping for even lower mintage 2012's the worst thing to have happen is for them to debut in say the the next few weeks.

Here's my prediction.

One spouse per month starting with Paul in September, Cleveland in October and so on. Let's see what happens.

[cpthnsolo]

It is remarkable that the burnished plats are being knocked down the list of lowest mintage moderns coins in a single day.

Remarkable indeed ! When I saw the number on the Hayes coin yesterday I immediately checked the '08W$50 plat to see where it stood and for the moment they're 10 apart. That total could easily go up or down dozens of units after the final audit, but regardless of an audit it seems the Garfield will dethrone the '08W$50 plat if Hayes doesn't. Honestly other than buying a single Hayes coin when they went on sale last year I haven't really paid attention to the line so I'm very thankful I was online this week to jump on Hayes and Garfield coins.

As for the next round, if sales explode for the newly released coins they may strike more as you mentioned, but I think we're kidding ourselves if we think there will be a huge surge in demand based solely on the Hayes and Garfield action. I bet first week sales will be strong for the next round of losers, but unless the major modern dealers start carrying the spouse coins in force I just don't see demand increasing that much. Granted I hope I'm wrong as increased interest in the uglies would be very good for me, but if I were to bet I would bet on continued 2500 or less mintage levels. Then again, I also thought the 2012-W eagle would have a very good shot at taking out the 2011 coin and that is starting to look like an impossibility at this point.

Once the coins I ordered this week arrive my spouse collection will probably remain static going forward due to loss of income so you guys will have to forgive me for rooting for higher sales from this point forward .

[cpthnsolo]

Btw, if anyone here is near Philly you should drop what you're doing and head to the ANA show this week. Not only is it an amazing coin show in and of itself, but someone just posted on the pcgs forums that the mint kiosk has the Lucy Hayes and Garfiled coins for sale at $966 (the last two Hayes coins on eBay have sold for $1650 and $1875). I can't corroborate that fact, but even if they're out or you find out they only have proofs left it's still a show well worth driving for.

Huge shows like that typically offer tons of Au and Ag at or just over melt so anyone within a few hours of the Pennsylvania Convention Center should check it out.

[Scald]

The debate over the future value of any coin always reminds me of the mid '60's Shelby Cobras. The didn't sell very well, and were not popular at the time. The result is only a few hundred originals exist, and sell at quite a premium.

I have to think that same phenom will happen with the spouses. When? anybody's guess.

[HistoryStudent]

The debate over the future value of any coin always reminds me of the mid '60's Shelby Cobras. The didn't sell very well, and were not popular at the time. The result is only a few hundred originals exist, and sell at quite a premium.

I have to think that same phenom will happen with the spouses. When? anybody's guess.

Buy as close to spot as possible they are .999 1/2 ounce gold coins - they are.

Jordan did say:

Page 217 Modern Commemorative Coins

1) Set with be a political mess with compromises and NON-SET cohesion

2) See unstable design section.

3) design may be almost as important as mintage per coin.

4) The mint will finish out the set no matter how few sell.

5) The may chose to release the amount they are going to mint.

6) This will be a costly series to complete with the lowest coins minted in 100 years (make that 200 years ~ HS)


See page 160 too.

1) We'll probably see sub 4,000 mintage (published in 2010)

2) It is dependent on how much the mint anticipates the demand and they don't see any demand.

3) The Hawaiian half dollar is great because of both iconic design and low mintage.

A PCGS = MS67 is $57,000.00 dollars retail today from 1928 coin. DYODD



You've been told by me since 2010. ~ HS

[savvydon]

Garfield uncirculated on back order. Is this the last of them?

[cpthnsolo]

Garfield uncirculated on back order. Is this the last of them?

Can't be 100%, but most folks think she's gone and I happen to agree with them. If you have the funds you should put an order in with the mint and see if you get lucky.

[savvydon]

Can't be 100%, but most folks think she's gone and I happen to agree with them. If you have the funds you should put an order in with the mint and see if you get lucky.

Done. We shall see.

[HistoryStudent]

IMVHO - I'm thinking the 2012 8 GOLD coins will all be issued in:

(Which if you throw in 3-bucks I can also get you a cup of coffee... ; >))



Sept 2 coins - Paul - Authur - suffrage movement (low interest)
October 2 coins - Cleveland 1- Baby Ruth coin - young cute 21 year old gal (higher interest)
November 2 coins - Harrison II - grandson of president (low interest)
December 2 coins - Cleveland II - Baby Ruth's mother grows up (low interest)


The wild cards are GOLD SPOT and short year's end timing: however, will extend these sales into 2013 DEEPLY.

I plan to buy them ASAR (as soon as released) ASAP. Gold with the economic situation is about to do a

~ NEAL ARMSTRONG:

"One small step for me, one HUGE STEP for GOLD and GOD."

We'll see sub 2,000 coins in Uncirculated this next year or following. (Taft & Wilson's two wives)

Proof will also fall into below the 3,000 line - unbelievable SNAFU.

http://www.coinweek.com/market-repor...-perform-well/

Follow the logic above...

PS = The lovely wife says: "~HS you stick with your spouses because pretty soon a female president will be there and these will go absolutely wild!"

Did somebody say Hillary or Condoleezza?

Imagine the OVAL Office on the Back of the spouse coin...

[hernancortes]

Julia's and Letitia's replacements (can't recall who they were offhand) were issued on the same day.

[HistoryStudent]

Julia's and Letitia's replacements (can't recall who they were offhand) were issued on the same day.

The Wilson #2 should be an interesting one.

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=edith...w=1672&bih=894

[newmisty]

Just placed order for a unc Garfield from da mint. Still says back ordered. Will update as new info arrives.

[cpthnsolo]

The extra Hayes coin that I ordered after AzAg posted in the other thread arrived today. A pcgs 70 (non-FS) just sold today for 2k so hopefully I can flip one of my 69 Hayes coins for some much needed scratch. Normally I would prefer to hold a coin with a mintage this low, but money is just too tight right now. Thanks again for the heads up !

[chief]

I'm wondering about the Garfield one that is currently backordered that a few of you guys are trying to order. Does this mean that the final mintage numbers on it will go up? If so, I wonder how much? If there are a lot of people catching wind that the Hayes has the lowest mintage numbers but maybe the Garfield could become the lower number than Hayes but it's hard to order and gamble on almost a $grand to see if it becomes true.

[tradeshack]

I'm wondering about the Garfield one that is currently backordered that a few of you guys are trying to order. Does this mean that the final mintage numbers on it will go up? If so, I wonder how much? If there are a lot of people catching wind that the Hayes has the lowest mintage numbers but maybe the Garfield could become the lower number than Hayes but it's hard to order and gamble on almost a $grand to see if it becomes true.

My status for an order placed yesterday for the 2011 LUCRETIA GARFIELD 1/2 OZ GOLD UNC has changed from 'Back ordered' to in process.
I'm betting that the quantity produced during 2011 is all that there can be. Recent mintage of gold spouse coins has been trending down so I doubt the mint would suddenly increase production without demand for it and this particular coin is presently at the end of the trend.


In other words, I believe Mrs. Garfield is it.

[Allyoop]

I was checking out this thread and thought that I'd give it a try and order one - at first my status was back ordered and now my status says held. Maybe I there is still a small chance to get one !

[savvydon]

My status for an order placed yesterday for the 2011 LUCRETIA GARFIELD 1/2 OZ GOLD UNC has changed from 'Back ordered' to in process.
I'm betting that the quantity produced during 2011 is all that there can be. Recent mintage of gold spouse coins has been trending down so I doubt the mint would suddenly increase production without demand for it and this particular coin is presently at the end of the trend.


In other words, I believe Mrs. Garfield is it.

When did you order?

[Allyoop]

I ordered about 45 mins. ago.

[tradeshack]

When did you order?

Order Date:08/07/2012. The time was after 2:00 PM.

[savvydon]

Mine was placed at 2:11 this afternoon and still says back ordered. I guess we will have to hurry up and wait.

[cpthnsolo]

I'll be quite surprised if anyone ordering at this point receives a Garfield, but I'm rooting for you guys . When they went to backorder I started searching for them online and while I was looking for pcgs FS70 examples, all of the cheap ones disappeared accept for two at $1050ea. I jumped on those rather than take my chances with the mint, but you never know. Everyone needs to cross their fingers

[savvydon]

I'll be quite surprised if anyone ordering at this point receives a Garfield, but I'm rooting for you guys . When they went to backorder I started searching for them online and while I was looking for pcgs FS70 examples, all of the cheap ones disappeared accept for two at $1050ea. I jumped on those rather than take my chances with the mint, but you never know. Everyone needs to cross their fingers

When did they go on back order?

[chief]

So I'm thinking about trying to order a Garfield. I'm only gonna be in this for maybe a quick flip or keep it about a year. Am I gonna have to get this thing graded? Don't really wanna go that route but are the Hayes examples ungraded or graded MS70 that are bringing the extra $$?

[Oldmansmith]

So I'm thinking about trying to order a Garfield. I'm only gonna be in this for maybe a quick flip or keep it about a year. Am I gonna have to get this thing graded? Don't really wanna go that route but are the Hayes examples ungraded or graded MS70 that are bringing the extra $$?

Doubt that you'll get one. But if you do, given your time frame, just flip it in OGP.

[cpthnsolo]

So I'm thinking about trying to order a Garfield. I'm only gonna be in this for maybe a quick flip or keep it about a year. Am I gonna have to get this thing graded? Don't really wanna go that route but are the Hayes examples ungraded or graded MS70 that are bringing the extra $$?

If it appears perfect to the naked eye with no breaks in the frost-like luster of an uncirculated coin with a rim devoid of any hits, I would take the time to send it for grading. However four out of five (if not 9 out of 10) come from the mint with at least one or two discernible micro-flaws and with that it all depends on the grader you get. I own PCGS 70s that are clearly not perfect and even shared a laugh with Eric Jordan in person when I showed him one of my "70" pcgs Mercanti reverse proofs from the 25th sets. It clearly has a rim hit, but still graded a 70. To be fair though coins like that are the exception as the overwhelming majority of 70s truly look perfect. Long story short the answer to your question will surface if and when Garfield actually sells out and we have a rough number for mintage. I bet hundreds of Garfields have been ordered over the last two days so there's an outside chance Hayes may come in as the winner. We'll see...

[cpthnsolo]

When did they go on back order?

Yesterday (8/7) around 12noon.

[lightcycler]

The extra Hayes coin that I ordered after AzAg posted in the other thread arrived today. A pcgs 70 (non-FS) just sold today for 2k so hopefully I can flip one of my 69 Hayes coins for some much needed scratch. Normally I would prefer to hold a coin with a mintage this low, but money is just too tight right now. Thanks again for the heads up !

That pcgs 70 non FS was mine Daddy needs a green box of ase's

[AZ Ag]

I have to confess something. Many pages ago, in this thread, I wrote that I could not purchase one of the Spouses, because a man has to have pride in himself, and the Spouses were just too UGLY.

Well, yesterday, I got caught up in the hysteria that was being fomented by this forum, and bought my first UGLY spouse. I got the Lucretia Garfield, believing that the mintage numbers would come in under those of Lucy Hayes. I could only find a MS 70 in NGC, an Early Release for what I thought might be a reasonable price. I am still not sure what I will do with it. Either keep it or flip it. I have never flipped a coin, I just buy and hold, but this may be a first, simply because I agree with others that even if the Garfield coin is the lowest, it may not continue to be in the future.

But that is not all, I ordered one through the Mint as well. I feel like I have surrendered my principles. Hopefully it will be worth it. If not, I may be forced to make one or both of them go work the street corner.

[savvydon]

Yesterday (8/7) around 12noon.

Wow, things move quick. It pays to do ones homework and not fall asleep at the wheel. Diligence, determination, and dedication...

[lightcycler]

Wow, things move quick. It pays to do ones homework and not fall asleep at the wheel. Diligence, determination, and dedication...

These things are like watching paint dry until something like this happens. The Hayes UNC went dark out of the blue. Then Garfield UNC not many days later. It is a crazy game at times

[tradeshack]

She's gone...