70's silver art bars

[97guns]

broke by bars down for a pic today. i might have a couple of rare ones, im pretty sure at least the suisse mecca and maybe the bowie?

[rte]

I took a look at the auction that ended and the winning bid. That winning bid had to be for just one of those Mother Lode bars and not the 12 Mother Lode bars. The picture looks deceiving because it would appear that the winning bidder got all 12 of them for only a total of $64.95 ($56.55 + 7.95 shipping) and the ebay description did not mention which Mother-Lode bar the winning bidder would get. If that auction was for ALL 12 of those bars, then the winning bidder got one steal of a deal for only $64.50 ($5.38/bar = $64.50/12 bars shown) however, I doubt that it was for all 12 of them.

I am going on the basis that the winning bidder is going to get one bar and it could be that he either grossly overpaid for a common-minted Mother Lode bar (Statue of Liberty, Father' Day, Pony Express, Reno, NV, Prospector, New Orleans, etc.) or paid a "decent" price for a hard -to-find or cancelled strike one (one of the 3 bars at the top).

This is just my opinion, but overall, If I saw this ebay auction, I would not have bid on it because the ebay seller showed a picture of 12 bars but did not mention which one you were going to get. When I bid on a silver art bar auction on ebay, I like to know exactly what I am bidding on.

At the same time, I can see why you bid on it since the winning bid was only $15.00 with a few seconds left and you were thinking that you were going to get a silver art bar for well under spot silver. It was a good effort but that other bidder must have had a high winning bid well before you came to place a bid. Just a guess on my part.

Just about exactly what I was thinking.
Except the bars look like Bronze art bars like the one Alamo Bronze bar I bought a few weeks back for $5.49 shipped.
I Very Highly Doubt <<< No chance they were .999 silver.....
The top 2 outer bars have the BAR # marking and it looks like the same number as my Alamo bar?

Really Wish the seller would have returned answers to my questions (how many bars in the auction and what is the number on the bars)
If the buyer is on site here???
I still have some questions
I'll follow up with the buyer on ebay to see what they really got and what I missed out on.

[Silver Art]

97Guns,

The bad news: From what I can see in the pictures you posted, I do not see anything that is really rare (mintage of 1000 or less). You mentioned the 1973 Patrick Mint Bowie Knife, however, it is not a rare bar with mintage number 10,000 according to the 4th edition Archie Kidd silver art bar guidebook. Patrick Mint bars are fairly common and they have low rarity values and more than likely, they will get winning bids on ebay ranging from $5 to $10 over spot silver which seems to be the average winning bid range for the "non-rare" silver art bars in general. The '80's Silvertowne silver art bars shown are also very common. Those particular '80's Silvertowne bars are more common than the Patrick Mint bars. The 1982 Shields Mint commerical bar is also a low rarity bar. The 4 Washington Mint "Numismatic Symbols" silver art bars that are pictured (2nd and 3rd pictures from the top) were minted in 1972 and 1973 but they are not rare bars. The 1984 Statue of Liberty is more than likely a common one. At best it is a semi-rare one (mintage of 1000 to 3000) but I am making a wild guess here since the guidebook does not list a mintage for it. The "Farnam Pet Products" bar appears to be a commercial bar that was made for a particular company but when I found it listed in the 6th edition Archie Kidd silver art bar guudebook, I did not see any mintage number listed. I have not seen it on ebay nor have I seen it at the LCS or the coin shows that I have attended in the past few years. The 1973 Crabtree "Rare Silver Coins" silver art bar is also a decent find IMO and the mintage is listed 1898 in one of my Archie Kidd silver art bar guidebooks which would make it a "semi-rare" bar by my definition FWIW. I have not seen any winning bids on this particular Crabtree Mint bar on ebay so I am not really sure what it would get on ebay but I am going to be very conservative and say between $5 to $10 over spot. It is certainly possible that it could get much higher than that since I have seen a few Crabtree bars get some decent winning bids on it but do not bet on it. I could be wrong on this particular one. The Tri-State refining silver bars are also fairly common and are low-rarity bars.


The good news: There is no mintage that is given for the 1984 PAMP "Mecca" silver art bar so I do not know how many were minted, however, PAMP bars, generally speaking, will get a huge premium on ebay. I have seen some PAMP bars fetch a winning bid as much as $25 over spot on ebay. That is a very good find IMO especially if you bought it for only .999 generic silver premiums. As far as I am concerned, that is the best find of what you have in the pictures that you posted IMO.

EDIT: I did a search on ebay for the Crabtree Mint "Rare Silver Coin" silver art bar and I did find some listed. Here are the following that I found:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=...&LH_Complete=1

The bad news is that it did not receive any bids at the starting bid price of $44.00. I am still going with my initial estimate that they will get a winning bid that ranges between $5 to $10 over spot silver.

EDIT2: I also did an ebay search on the PAMP "Mecca" silver art bars and found the following:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=...&LH_Complete=1

These were only 1/2-oz size PAMP bars but based on the winning bids/sale prices of between $25 to $50 on ebay, then I would think that the one oz version would get winning bids/BIN sale prices ranging between $50 to $100 on ebay. This too is just a guess on my part since I did not see any actual 1-oz PAMP Mecca bars completed ebay auctions.

The other silver bars you have pictured (JM, Engelhard, etc) are worth just metal value.

[97guns]

thanks for the research SA!! im not really the collector type like yourself but as you alluded to, i just buy them for the silver content and any premium is a bonus. both the crabtree and pamp were picked up at locals for the standard $1.50 over

[Silver Art]

Just about exactly what I was thinking.
Except the bars look like Bronze art bars like the one Alamo Bronze bar I bought a few weeks back for $5.49 shipped.
I Very Highly Doubt <<< No chance they were .999 silver.....
The top 2 outer bars have the BAR # marking and it looks like the same number as my Alamo bar?

Really Wish the seller would have returned answers to my questions (how many bars in the auction and what is the number on the bars)
If the buyer is on site here???
I still have some questions
I'll follow up with the buyer on ebay to see what they really got and what I missed out on.

Rte,

You brought up a very good point there and I did not even consider that they could probably be bronze art bars. I decided to take a second look at the ebay picture and I zoomed in on it and I did find that it is not stamped 1-oz .999 fine silver on it like most bars are. I suspect that 2 of those top 3 in the ebay picture are bronze bars. Thanks for pointing that out. That also rules out the possibility that it could be a "Cave Man", an "America" or a "cancelled strike" Mother-Lode bar because, even though those are also serial numbered, those are silver art bars and not bronze art bars.

Also, there is a possibility that the top middle bar of the top 3 in the album ebay picture could be a silver bar because there is a Mother-Lode "Commercial bar" listed in the guidebook that was minted with a blank reverse. I think that I have seen that type of Mother Lode Commercial bar at a past coin show.

Based on what you observed and based on what I have written earlier, here are 2 possibilities that the winning bidder could come out with:

1.) Got all 12 bars (2 bronze art bars + 10 silver art bars) for only $64.50 (including shipping) which would mean $5.38 per bar. This would be the best scenario for the winning bidder if that ended up being true but IMO that is not the likely scenario.

or

2.) Got only one bar and paid $64.50 for it. Whether it was one of the 2 possible bronze art bars or one of the 10 1-oz silver art bars, that would mean that he grossly overpaid for a Mother-Lode bar period. This would be the worst case scenario and the likely scenario IMO.

If any of those Mother-Lode bars were very hard-to-find and very rare ones, then $64.50 would be IMO considered to be "full retail" price that he would have paid on ebay and it would not look too bad if he paid $64.50 for a rare silver art bar. Since all of the 10 Mother Lode silver art bars are very common, then that meant that he paid $37.16 over spot for a common one that could be found at an LCS or at a coin show for typical .999 generic silver premiums.

If I am going to overpay/overbid for a silver art bar on ebay, I would rather overpay/overbid for a very rare one (such as a Greathouse or a Coca-Cola bar) that I really want very badly and that I was not able to find locally or at a coin show. Grossly overpaying for a common-minted bar (such as Mother-Lode) is not a good idea IMO. For the record, I have overpaid on several rare silver art bars on ebay in the past and I knew that I did but I did it because I wanted it really badly and I tried for 3+ years to find certain ones with no success. I do not regret that at all because I love those bars. With that said, I do not buy any on ebay very often since I have been concentrating on finding and buying certain ones at the LCS and at the coin shows that I go to.

[97guns]

wow, i just looked up art bar guide books on ebay and they are not cheap!! thanks again for looking stuff up for us........

[rte]

wow, i just looked up art bar guide books on ebay and they are not cheap!! thanks again for looking stuff up for us........

Compound that with everyone and their brother looking for a deal on a art bar book and the price for used is at a premium.

[rte]

Rte,
1.) Got all 12 bars (2 bronze art bars + 10 silver art bars) for only $64.50 (including shipping) which would mean $5.38 per bar. This would be the best scenario for the winning bidder if that ended up being true but IMO that is not the likely scenario.

or

2.) Got only one bar and paid $64.50 for it. Whether it was one of the 2 possible bronze art bars or one of the 10 1-oz silver art bars, that would mean that he grossly overpaid for a Mother-Lode bar period. This would be the worst case scenario and the likely scenario IMO.

Another thing to note
The seller had other listings for groups of coins and tokens.
He lists them as auction is as pictured
Taking that into acount as I bid on the bronze art bars....I vaguely looks like there are 2 plastic pages in that book/holder....That could possibly net 24 bars for $56 and shipping.
Either way I had some free money from the casino BlackJack table to trade for metal and those bronze bars looked like a sure Bet

[Silver Art]

wow, i just looked up art bar guide books on ebay and they are not cheap!! thanks again for looking stuff up for us........

Yeah you are right in that the art bar guide books are not cheap. They could run anywhere from $50 to as high as $300 depending on the edition that a person is looking for. The only places that I have seen these guidebooks are on ebay and at Amazon but they are hard to find because there were not many that were published.

The Archie Kidd silver art bar guidebooks have helped me and still help me tremendously especially when I do not know anything about a particular silver art bar. Archie Kidd was the big player of the silver art bar hobby and it must have took a lot of time and effort to put those guidebooks together. If it was not for him and his guidebooks, then I would not have existed as a silver art bar collector.

When I post on here about certain silver art bars, I will usually mention the edition of the guidebook that I used to get the information because it was the information on those guidebooks that helped me identify that it could be a rare bar with a low mintage. That information in the guidebooks along with my silver art bar collecting experience and my personal observations as well as observing "real world" values on ebay, then I feel that I can be helpful to others that might be interested in the silver art bar hobby. The guidebooks are just one of the tools that I use to help me increase my silver art bar knowledge. When I post here (and elsewhere) on silver art bars, I also put in my personal observations and experience because the guidebooks cannot give you a current perspective on the modern silver art bar hobby and "real world" prices.


The Archie Kidd guidebooks are good IMO for the following:

1.) Identifying a bar: Since most of those books have illustrations, then it helps to identify what I bought.

2.) Mintage numbers: Give an idea of how rare (or common) each one is.

3.) Mint years: Give you an idea of how old a silver art bar is if a mint year is listed.


The Archie Kidd guidebooks are NOT good IMO for the following:

1.) Rarity values: Constantly observing ebay "real world" winning bids and/or BIN sale prices are IMO the best gauge to see what the true demand is and the true value is for each bar listed for auction on ebay. The rarity values in the book give you a vague idea but they are outdated since most of them were published in the late 80's/early '90's. There are a lot of silver art bars listed in the guidebook that would sell on ebay for less than what the rarity value that is listed in the the book for each one.


Overall, with all of that said, if a person really wants to seriously collect silver art bars, then I would strongly recommend that they buy one of the Archie Kidd guidebooks because those are very helpful to collectors especially ones that are starting out. The 5th edition is the best one to get IMO but it is the most expensive one. The 4th edition is a good one and it is not as expensive as the 5th edition. The Archie Kidd 6th edition is for the new bars that were minted in the 1990's and later. The 2009 Archie Kidd "Red"edition is the latest one but it does not have any illustrations in it. To put it in perspective, the Archie Kidd silver art bar guidebooks are the "Red Book" for silver art bar collecting.

In reality, I am really just a collector that shares information, observations, silver art bar pics, and personal collecting experience pertaining to the silver art bar hobby by writing about it here on this thread (and elsewhere on other internet forums). I am still learning myself and I find myself still learning about various ones and the silver art bar guidebooks help me gain more knowledge on them. A very valuable resource for me IMO.

[97guns]

i put some of my "rarer" bars on ebay, got some interest in the pamp for $80 and a bid of $60 on the bowie bar, still have a few days left

[Silver Art]

i put some of my "rarer" bars on ebay, got some interest in the pamp for $80 and a bid of $60 on the bowie bar, still have a few days left

WOW!!!!!! A bid of $60 for a 1973 Patrick Mint "Bowie" silver art bar. I will admit that I am totally shocked at that high of a bid for that particular one. I would not have expected that high of a bid for any Patrick Mint bar for that matter. I would have thought maybe $40 at the absolute best given current spot of $27.00.

$80 for a PAMP bar is not very surprising to me since most PAMP silver art bars can get high bids like that especially ones that are old PAMP bars that are hard-to-find.

[97guns]

WOW!!!!!! A bid of $60 for a 1973 Patrick Mint "Bowie" silver art bar. I will admit that I am totally shocked at that high of a bid for that particular one. I would not have expected that high of a bid for any Patrick Mint bar for that matter. I would have thought maybe $40 at the absolute best given current spot of $27.00.

$80 for a PAMP bar is not very surprising to me since most PAMP silver art bars can get high bids like that especially ones that are old PAMP bars that are hard-to-find.

got 3 lookers on the pamp, they may be waiting to snipe it.

[97guns]

hey SA, look what i got for this 5oz engelhard


http://www.ebay.com/itm/300745073716...#ht_500wt_1329

[southfork]

hey SA, look what i got for this 5oz engelhard


http://www.ebay.com/itm/300745073716...#ht_500wt_1329

Great sale, I have a few of them myself and some 10s, got a jm like that too, might have to put them up and get some more free silver
\

[97guns]

yep, if they're willing to give me $100/oz i'm definitely a seller

[Silver Art]

hey SA, look what i got for this 5oz engelhard


http://www.ebay.com/itm/300745073716...#ht_500wt_1329

Thanks for posting this because this proves one thing that is, despite spot silver trading sideways and/or going down, people can still make money on silver if they buy the "right" old poured silver bar or silver art bar at the right price. Generally speaking, to make money on silver art bars, you buy the "right ones" from people who think that it is "just an oz of silver" (i.e. paying only .999 generic premiums) and turn around on ebay and sell that same silver art bar to ebay buyers (i.e. collectors) that see it as "more than just an oz. of silver" (i.e. paying a collector's premium). Posting this is just an example that this works when you buy the right silver art bars and/or old poured bars at the right price.

[Milanion]

Thanks for posting this because this proves one thing that is, despite spot silver trading sideways and/or going down, people can still make money on silver if they buy the "right" old poured silver bar or silver art bar at the right price. Generally speaking, to make money on silver art bars, you buy the "right ones" from people who think that it is "just an oz of silver" (i.e. paying only .999 generic premiums) and turn around on ebay and sell that same silver art bar to ebay buyers (i.e. collectors) that see it as "more than just an oz. of silver" (i.e. paying a collector's premium). Posting this is just an example that this works when you buy the right silver art bars and/or old poured bars at the right price.

I agree, I did a little test last night at my LCS, bought a bunch of silver art bars/rounds at generic prices and looked up prices afterwards. One that I bought was a Cubs collector round from 8-8-88 with one sold last month for $45. It's not much profit after fees, but it's a bit.

[97guns]

Thanks for posting this because this proves one thing that is, despite spot silver trading sideways and/or going down, people can still make money on silver if they buy the "right" old poured silver bar or silver art bar at the right price. Generally speaking, to make money on silver art bars, you buy the "right ones" from people who think that it is "just an oz of silver" (i.e. paying only .999 generic premiums) and turn around on ebay and sell that same silver art bar to ebay buyers (i.e. collectors) that see it as "more than just an oz. of silver" (i.e. paying a collector's premium). Posting this is just an example that this works when you buy the right silver art bars and/or old poured bars at the right price.

I agree, I did a little test last night at my LCS, bought a bunch of silver art bars/rounds at generic prices and looked up prices afterwards. One that I bought was a Cubs collector round from 8-8-88 with one sold last month for $45. It's not much profit after fees, but it's a bit.

yep, when i shop at the lcs im looking for engelhard/jm and anything that looks old and unusual. just last week i passed over a whole sheet of new production jm and northwest territorial bars for his older grungy looking bars out of the bin.

[rte]

I had to put away a few rounds today and with all this talk of old bars....I thought I'd dig out my first bar
I happened upon the paper receipt from ebay back in 03,so I snapped a picture.
The good old days from ebay with 3 feedbacks and $6oz shipped silver.

[southfork]

Picked up 3 old pour engelhard bars 10 0z at the lcs yesterday, 27.50 an ounce, he also sold me some assay gold one grams and one grains at melt.

[newmisty]

Don't breath too hard, you'll lose them grains!

[Silver Art]

In addition to a purchase of a 1/20th oz gold 1993 Chinese Panda that I bought at a coin show that I went to in Birmingham, AL this past Friday (July 20), I also bought a silver art bar at this coin show. The 1-oz silver art bar that I bought there was a 1983 Crown Mint Beauties "December" and I paid $28.00 for it. Due to the adult graphic theme of this particular one, I am not going to post it on this forum.

Overall, I did not find very many silver art bars at this show. Most of the ones that I found were some Holiday-themed and other common Madison Mint bars as well as some Hamilton Mint bars and Silvertowne bars but I was not interested in buying those. There was also an emameled 1974 Ceeco Mint "Season's Greetings" bar and a 1973 Pioneer Mint "Frasier Father Lion" bar for $28.00 each but I did not buy those because, even though the price was awesome, I was not interested in buying them to add to my collection.

Also, while I was in Birmingham that Friday, I did stop at a few coin shops that I learned about while talking to some of the dealers at the show but, overall, there was not much at the coin shops that I went to down there. However, at one of the coin shops that I went to in Birmingham, I did find a 1977 World Wide Mint Buffalo, New York Coca-Cola silver art bar that was on my wish list and I decided to buy it once I knew what the price was. Including an Alabama sales tax on bullion, I paid a total of $54.50 for it. For that particular Coca-Cola bar, it was, at best, a fair price that I paid for it on a relative basis considering that it is harder bar to find with a mintage of only 2500. That ended up being most expensive purchase during my Friday trip down there but that was one that was on my wish list and I had to the opportunity to buy it.

That coin shop where I bought the Buffalo Coca-Cola bar from also had some Chattanooga, Atlanta, and Nashville Coca-Cola bars but they were overpriced IMO at $50 (not including AL sales tax). There were also common-minted Coca-Cola bars (Atlanta, Chattanooga, and Nashville) at the show but they were also overpriced IMO at prices ranging from a low of $42 to a high of $55. Any price that is under $10 over spot for those Chattanooga, Nashville, Atlanta, and Louisville Coca-Cola bars is a good price deal to me IMO but I did not find that type of price at the show. As a rule of thumb, I will not pay more than $10 over spot for a Nashville, Chattanooga, Louisville or Atlanta Coca Cola bar.

Overall, even though I did not buy much, that was a decent trip for me as a collector since I did relax and enjoy myself and I was able to talk to some dealers and other collectors that I knew while at the show. I had fun in Birmingham, AL.

[southfork]

In addition to a purchase of a 1/20th oz gold 1993 Chinese Panda that I bought at a coin show that I went to in Birmingham, AL this past Friday (July 20), I also bought a silver art bar at this coin show. The 1-oz silver art bar that I bought there was a 1983 Crown Mint Beauties "December" and I paid $28.00 for it. Due to the adult graphic theme of this particular one, I am not going to post it on this forum.

Overall, I did not find very many silver art bars at this show. Most of the ones that I found were some Holiday-themed and other common Madison Mint bars as well as some Hamilton Mint bars and Silvertowne bars but I was not interested in buying those. There was also an emameled 1974 Ceeco Mint "Season's Greetings" bar and a 1973 Pioneer Mint "Frasier Father Lion" bar for $28.00 each but I did not buy those because, even though the price was awesome, I was not interested in buying them to add to my collection.

Also, while I was in Birmingham that Friday, I did stop at a few coin shops that I learned about while talking to some of the dealers at the show but, overall, there was not much at the coin shops that I went to down there. However, at one of the coin shops that I went to in Birmingham, I did find a 1977 World Wide Mint Buffalo, New York Coca-Cola silver art bar that was on my wish list and I decided to buy it once I knew what the price was. Including an Alabama sales tax on bullion, I paid a total of $54.50 for it. For that particular Coca-Cola bar, it was, at best, a fair price that I paid for it on a relative basis considering that it is harder bar to find with a mintage of only 2500. That ended up being most expensive purchase during my Friday trip down there but that was one that was on my wish list and I had to the opportunity to buy it.

That coin shop where I bought the Buffalo Coca-Cola bar from also had some Chattanooga, Atlanta, and Nashville Coca-Cola bars but they were overpriced IMO at $50 (not including AL sales tax). There were also common-minted Coca-Cola bars (Atlanta, Chattanooga, and Nashville) at the show but they were also overpriced IMO at prices ranging from a low of $42 to a high of $55. Any price that is under $10 over spot for those Chattanooga, Nashville, Atlanta, and Louisville Coca-Cola bars is a good price deal to me IMO but I did not find that type of price at the show. As a rule of thumb, I will not pay more than $10 over spot for a Nashville, Chattanooga, Louisville or Atlanta Coca Cola bar.

Overall, even though I did not buy much, that was a decent trip for me as a collector since I did relax and enjoy myself and I was able to talk to some dealers and other collectors that I knew while at the show. I had fun in Birmingham, AL.

Sound good, its not always about buying, I go to buy, listen and learn and it pays dividends down the road to speak with dealers and buyers from all over the US, you get a real sense of the economy and the the bs they pump on main street media. Ps those ceco bars are getting rare, Id buy them in aheart beat if nothing else make money on them and get more free silver

[newmisty]

Josey, Pics or it didn't happen!

[Silver Art]

Josey, Pics or it didn't happen!

Hey Newmisty, I am too stingy to share my latest silver art bar nude lady porn with anyone.



EDIT: FWIW it is one of the 1983 Crown Mint Beauties calendar silver art bars (December). That is a decent find for only $28.00 since those usually have high premiums on them on ebay. I was too scared to post a picture of it since one of the GIM2 rules states "No Porn".

[newmisty]

That the only beauty you have so far?

[Silver Art]

That the only beauty you have so far?

Yep. That is the only Crown Mint Beauty bar that I have. There were supposedly 5000 of each bar minted but I have not seen many of them during the past coin shows that I have been to. Then again, due to the nude adult theme of this bar, the dealers probably did not feel comfortable putting them out.

[newmisty]

Yeah from what have seen the adult themed bars and rounds are a popular with collectors and it's not easy to find them at a low price over spot like you did. I have a couple Marilyn Monroe bars but don't know any details about them.

[Silver Art]

Yeah from what have seen the adult themed bars and rounds are a popular with collectors and it's not easy to find them at a low price over spot like you did. I have a couple Marilyn Monroe bars but don't know any details about them.

Actually there are three different Marilyn Monroe bars that I know of that came out. One was minted in the 1970's, One was minted in the 1980's and the third one was minted in 1990. Here are the Marlyn Monroe bars that I am familiar with:

1. 1973 Colonial Mint Marilyn Monroe: You know that you have this type of Marlyn Monroe bar because this bar has an incused (stamped) reverse that is the shape of the famous nude pose centerfold facing the other way. The top of the reverse side will be stamped "Colonial Mint 1973". This bar also has a serial number on the side. 10,000 of those were minted according to one of my Archie Kidd guidebooks (4th edition).

2. 1984 World Wide Mint Marilyn Monroe: This one has the same famous pose as the 1973 Colonial Mint bar but the difference here is that you do not have the incused reverse like the one that is on the 1973 Colonial Mint version. You will also know that you have this 1984 WWM Marilyn Monroe bar because the reverse of this bar will have an oval and the weight and purity will be stamped within that oval as well as the "WWM' initials which stands for World Wide Mint. 2000 of these were made (w/ serial #'s) according to one of my Archie Kidd guidebooks (4th edition). According to the guidebook, some of these will have serial numbers and some will not. I do not know how many were minted without the serial # because the mintage for those is not listed in the guidebook.

3. 1990 Robert Westfall Marilyn Monroe: Based on the illustration that is in the 6th edition Archie Kidd silver art bar guidebook, this silver art bar also has the same front as the above two mentioned bar but the difference in this bar is that the reverse type has a "Big One" on the reverse along with the weight and purity stamped on it. There is no mintage listed for it.

These are the 3 different Marilyn Monroe bars that I am familiar with. In my opinion, all of these are awesome bars since they are nude Marilyn Monroe themes but the 1973 Colonial Mint Marilyn Monroe bar is the best bar of the three because of that incused reverse type. There were also Marilyn Monroe silver art rounds that exist but I am not familiar with them to comment on them.

[newmisty]

Great info Josey, thanks. Mine MM bars are buried away ATM but I do have this old pic that gives a glimpse of one. Can you tell which of the bars above it is from the picture? Probably not without seeing the reverse eh'? I'll ad that to my list o bars to unearth.

[Silver Art]

Great info Josey, thanks. Mine MM bars are buried away ATM but I do have this old pic that gives a glimpse of one. Can you tell which of the bars above it is from the picture? Probably not without seeing the reverse eh'? I'll ad that to my list o bars to unearth.

It is hard to say because the 3 Marilyn Monroe bars that I mentioned in my previous post have the same pose. I forgot to mention that on the 1973 Colonial Mint version does have some sort of mark by her feet on the front of the bar and I believe that the 1984 World Wide Mint version (and possibly the Robert Westfall version) does not have that mark by her feet. With that said, I will make an educated guess by saying that the one in that picture is the 1984 World Wide Mint Marilyn Monroe bar.

[97guns]

why are there no 50's, 60's and earlier art bars?

[Silver Art]

why are there no 50's, 60's and earlier art bars?

That is a very good question but I honestly do not know the answer. The earliest silver art bars that I know of are the ones that were minted by Foster Company in the late 60's.

[curmudgeonista]

That is a very good question but I honestly do not know the answer. The earliest silver art bars that I know of are the ones that were minted by Foster Company in the late 60's.

I'll venture a guess... actually two very closely related ones that I believe are both partially responsible for the rise of SAB's in the 70's, or maybe more correctly for the lack of them much before that...

1) Up until 1964, and a little beyond, silver circulated as coinage. Anyone far-sighted enough to stack silver had easy access to relatively cheap 90%. By 1970, silver to be found in common circulation was all but gone.

2) The ban on owning gold bullion in the USA wasn't lifted until 1974. This wasn't entirely out-of-the-blue. Private ownership of gold bullion was becoming more and more popular outside the USA, as evidenced by the introduction of the Krugerrand in 1967; and certainly there were plenty of people inside the US asking, "Why not us too?" So, perhaps wider awareness of silver bullion as an investment began as an intermediate step before '74 (not sure), though most certainly even more so as gold popularized the idea of owning bullion afterwards.

I realize there is more collector appeal to SAB's than simply bullion, particularly in retrospect. But, that floor value was part of the basis for them; hence the vast majority were made in 1 oz sizes, if I'm not mistaken.

[Silver Art]

2) The ban on owning gold bullion in the USA wasn't lifted until 1974. This wasn't entirely out-of-the-blue. Private ownership of gold bullion was becoming more and more popular outside the USA, as evidenced by the introduction of the Krugerrand in 1967; and certainly there were plenty of people inside the US asking, "Why not us too?" So, perhaps wider awareness of silver bullion as an investment began as an intermediate step before '74 (not sure), though most certainly even more so as gold popularized the idea of owning bullion afterwards.

This makes sense to me because 1973 seemed to be the most popular year for SAB's in terms of the number of different ones that came out during that year followed very closely by 1974 and the ones that were minted between 1968 to 1972 were also becoming a popular way to own physical PM's before the gold ownership ban was lifted. I could be wrong on this but I believe that buying those were the only way to buy physical silver bullion back then since, as far as I know, there were no other forms of physical silver available to buy in the early '70's like there is now.

[ToBeSelfEvident]

I have one of the Crown Mint Beauties, January I believe. I'm partial to the September design because as we say in retinal medicine, "the posterior segment is stable and healthy".

[curmudgeonista]

This makes sense to me because 1973 seemed to be the most popular year for SAB's in terms of the number of different ones that came out during that year followed very closely by 1974 and the ones that were minted between 1968 to 1972 were also becoming a popular way to own physical PM's before the gold ownership ban was lifted. I could be wrong on this but I believe that buying those were the only way to buy physical silver bullion back then since, as far as I know, there were no other forms of physical silver available to buy in the early '70's like there is now.

Josey, your more intimate knowledge of the subject tends to confirm my seat-of-the-pants impressions. I was just a teenager in the 70's, but had been turned on to coin collecting as a kid and already had a great appreciation for real money including "non-monetary" silver. Not that I could afford them at the time, but I recall seeing ads in magazines for SAB series, wishing I could own some of them.

Let's also add that the evaporation of gov't demand for silver for coinage likely meant there was a lot of excess around in need of new applications. The fairly wide array of different SAB issuers would seem to support easy access to the raw materials, and rising values of silver would have helped make them appealing in the marketplace.

[newmisty]

http://rivercitycoins.com/silverartb...adultnew2.html

[Gold Rush]

I have always liked the Crown Mint beauties..but I have never been able to find any cheap! so I don't own any..came accross this today..not sure if this is a fair price or not? http://www.monarchpreciousmetals.com...mart&Itemid=53

[Silver Art]

Josey, your more intimate knowledge of the subject tends to confirm my seat-of-the-pants impressions. I was just a teenager in the 70's, but had been turned on to coin collecting as a kid and already had a great appreciation for real money including "non-monetary" silver. Not that I could afford them at the time, but I recall seeing ads in magazines for SAB series, wishing I could own some of them.

Let's also add that the evaporation of gov't demand for silver for coinage likely meant there was a lot of excess around in need of new applications. The fairly wide array of different SAB issuers would seem to support easy access to the raw materials, and rising values of silver would have helped make them appealing in the marketplace.

That in bold print makes also makes a lot of sense to me.

There were magazine and newspaper ads on certain SAB's. For example, my Coca-Cola art bar guidebook has sample prints of the ads that were run in the mid to late '70's in various magazines to advertise the various Coca-Cola SAB's that were released to the public. In the early '70's, I was too young to remember anything about any SAB ads.

[Silver Art]

I have always liked the Crown Mint beauties..but I have never been able to find any cheap! so I don't own any..came accross this today..not sure if this is a fair price or not? http://www.monarchpreciousmetals.com...mart&Itemid=53

In May 2011, the opportunity presented itself for me to buy the complete 12-bar set of the Crown Mint Calendar Beauties but I could not buy it at that time because I did not have enough FRNs on hand to buy the whole set. Those are hard to find and a complete 12-bar Crown Mint Beauties set is even harder to find especially at generic silver premiums.

As for the Monarch Precious Metals offer link on those, I think the price is similar to the selling price range that I have seen in the past one ebay. There were individual ones that have sold between $40 to $60 in some recent completed online auctions on ebay.

There is also another 12-bar calender set of nude lady silver art bars called "Dr. Peepers" and those are just as hard to find as the Crown Mint Beauties and those sell for about the same premium on ebay.

[Silver Art]

I have one of the Crown Mint Beauties, January I believe. I'm partial to the September design because as we say in retinal medicine, "the posterior segment is stable and healthy".

I like the September one mainly because it is my birth month. I like the various positions of the nude ladies in all of those SAB's.

[newmisty]

I have always liked the Crown Mint beauties..but I have never been able to find any cheap! so I don't own any..came accross this today..not sure if this is a fair price or not? http://www.monarchpreciousmetals.com...mart&Itemid=53

Lol @ someone's comment...more bounce per ounce.

[Pacecar]

There is also another 12-bar calender set of nude lady silver art bars called "Dr. Peepers" and those are just as hard to find as the Crown Mint Beauties and those sell for about the same premium on ebay.

I am lucky enough to have this complete set. Do you have any knowledge of mintage numbers and when it was minted? I have searched and searched and can't find anything. I would post pics, but I don't want to be banned.

[rte]

I am lucky enough to have this complete set. Do you have any knowledge of mintage numbers and when it was minted? I have searched and searched and can't find anything. I would post pics, but I don't want to be banned.

I had to check them out on ebay for reference (havent seen one in a long time anywhere and forgot all about the peepers)
Some of the ebay listings state limited to 100 mintage.

Didn't have a clue it was that low if fact.

[Silver Art]

I am lucky enough to have this complete set. Do you have any knowledge of mintage numbers and when it was minted? I have searched and searched and can't find anything. I would post pics, but I don't want to be banned.

Hello Pacecar,

Welcome to Gold is Money.

As Rte mentioned, the mintage for each bar in the set is only 100 and my 6th edition Archie Kidd 6th edition guidebook confirms that mintage number for each bar in that set. This guidebook also mentions that these were minted in 1991 by the Money Company. These particular adult-themed silver art bars are very rare. Mintage-wise, the "Dr Peepers" 12-bar set is much rarer than the Crown Mint Beauties which has a mintage of 5000 for each bar in that set.

I do not have the complete 12-bar set and I do not have even one bar from the "Dr. Peepers" set. However, I have seen the complete set at a past coin show that I went to but that was a long while ago but I did not get it at that time because I did not have enough FRNs to buy it from this dealer (also a silver art bar collector). I think that this was the time that spot silver was in the low $40's range and he wanted a huge premium for them. I think that he ended up selling that complete set to another collector because I do not recall seeing it recently.

Basically, any adult-themed bar even ones with a high mintage number (ex: 5000) such as the Crown Mint Beauties will be very hard to find because the racy adult theme nature of these bars prevents most dealers from putting them out for display. If they have some of those bars, they will usually keep it in the back in their safe and you will have to ask for them. That has been my experience when buying them.

In all honesty, I like the adult-themed bars that were minted in the 1970's by Death Valley Mint/USSC because those are a lot of more graphic than the Crown Mint Beauties or the Dr. Peepers. I love collecting adult-themed silver art bars but they are hard to find. Even when you find one, a dealer will probably charge you a higher premium for it. I got lucky last Friday when I bought a "December" Crown Mint Beauties for only $28.00 from a dealer table at a coin show because, as expected, he did not have it out on display. The only reason that I knew that he had it was because I asked him if he had any silver art bars and he said yes and that was when he showed it to me.

My rule of thumb when going to coin shows is to ask dealers if they have any silver art bars because sometimes they may not put them out.

[Pacecar]

Thanks RTE and Silver Art. I think I am happy as a pig in slop about the mintage numbers. Silver, I should have read the post before I checked my PM. You already answered my questions. Thanks. I don't want to be a grinch, so I will post a recent pic of some of my silver.

[newmisty]

Nice collection! Thanks for the pron.

What bar is that in the center with the large star?

What round is that (looks like a 2 oz)with the bewbies bottom pic lower left?

[Pacecar]

Thanks Newmisty.

The bar with the star is a Shriner's club bar. The round is a 5 ounce Zodiac Beauties chick.

[newmisty]

Cool. Never seen a Shriners bar, though I do have a couple Masonic bars. Any more info on that one?

If you could, I'd like to see the top 4 rows of bars a bit better. Its hard to make them out with the reflections. I'm curious about the one that looks like it has a camel on it too.