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1oz. .999 Copper Bullion Rounds

Discussion in 'Purchasing Precious Metals' started by txfxtrader, Apr 28, 2011.



  1. txfxtrader

    txfxtrader New Member

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    Does any on here purchase these? Does the futures price quote by the pound, oz, or ?

    [​IMG]
     
  2. kingbee

    kingbee New Member

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    How much does copper have to rise before you get back the premium? Seems like it is nothing more than a novelty to me.
     
  3. needler

    needler Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Yeah not many people invest in copper. You're better off with silver no matter how little the amount.
     
  4. Siwy

    Siwy New Member

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    Agreed. If you want copper - stick with pennies (pre 1982)
     
    Mr.Greenjeans, HoldingAg and earplugs like this.
  5. Turner-son

    Turner-son Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Agreed. These will become the copper equivalent of pre-65 90% silver in the next few years as the composition changes again and the melting ban is finally lifted.
     
  6. bulloncoins

    bulloncoins Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Humph...Starting to hear about a lot of big copper purchases for such a piss poor metal that most of you want to ban to penny sorters....

    This forum hates copperheads. Beware all the free advice about it...
     
  7. txfxtrader

    txfxtrader New Member

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    Found this searching the net...

    By Ed Zimmer:

    When one discusses the value of coins, or rounds, or bars the first suspect that always seems to get mentioned is the king of metals: gold. Regardless of what form it takes, gold is generally recognized around the world as having value, especially in relationship to the local currency. With few exceptions, gold is involate, In fact, it has been said that all the gold mined in the history of this world is still in existence and much of it is in a form that can be used for transactions between persons, cities, or countries.

    Silver on the other hand, has had a much rockier existence. It is both a precious metal and an industrial metal, and a metal that is useful in the healthcare field. This multiple personality has led to silver being used in minute amounts in an ever growing number of industries which find it more effective, both in terms of cost and in terms of performance. Even so, the sheer amount of silver compared to gold has kept it from being valued as highly, as is the tendency of silver to succumb to the elements.

    But copper is one of those metals that one used to think of in terms of coinage, but only in the smallest amounts. Copper pennies have played a roll in providing the supporting bedrock of currency in the western world until fairly recently, when the demand for copper sent the price well over 4 dollar a pound. Even today, copper commands $4.38 cents per pound and even more once it has been worked into wire for use by the power, telecommunications and entertainment industries. Two hundred feet of 4 ga grounding wire will cost you $197.

    But when it comes to a relatively new expression of copper, one has to consider that metal mania may have reached a peak. Recently, 1 troy ounce copper rounds have been placed for sale with a variety of obverse designs. Some indicate that they are barter rounds, while others take the precious metal route and simply display purity and weight on the reverse. Even quarter ounce rounds are being offer for sale. In either case, the listed price is between $2 and $4 per round, whether it is the one ounce or the quarter ounce round.

    Considering that silver is currently selling for nearly $50 per ounce, is copper the new silver?

    It wasn't all that long ago that you could pick up the 1 ounce copper rounds for about $1.25 each, so they have gone up in price by nearly 70%. That is a better appreciation that silver or gold, so perhaps these new copper rounds are the way to get on the ground floor of the next big thing.

    But the fundamentals don't appear to be there. Oh, there appears to be demand for the coins, otherwise the price would not be going up. But is there value or is this a case where demand for any coin is going through the roof, warranted or no?

    The spot price of silver is running close to $50 per troy ounce. Whether it is in a bubble or not is for each person to determine for themselves. The premium for silver eagles runs between 5 and 10%. Gold is over $1,500 per ounce and premiums are in the same range. Non-governmental rounds tend to pull down premiums that are about 5% or less over spot.

    Remember that the copper rounds are currently trading about $2-$4 per troy ounce. Copper prices however are quoted in pounds, not troy ounce. Since there are about 14.5 troy ounces per pound, the mints that produce these rounds are getting between $29 and $58 dollar per pound for their copper rounds. When it comes to the quarter ounce rounds, the return is $116 to $232 dollars per pound for copper.

    At last check, copper was selling for $4.38 per pound.

    Considering that the metal value of these coins is slightly more than 30 cents per coin for the one ounce variety, people are paying 10 to 20 times the metal value of the coin, or premiums of 1,000-2,000 percent. You can do your own calculations on the quarter ounce coin.

    I won't fault the companies for selling a product at whatever price they can get for it, after all, isn't that what the silver and gold folks are doing, including governments? But it looks like a lot of people are paying a lot of fiat for a product that doesn't have the value that it is selling for.

    Or to look at it another way, gold is valued because of its rarity. There are about 15-17 ounces of silver for every ounce of gold in the earth's crust. Using that same ratio, there are 13,750 ounces of copper in the ground for every ounce of gold. Given the value of gold at $1500 per ounce, that would make an ounce of copper worth 11 cents or about $1.58 cents per pound.

    If there is a talk of bubbles, then copper ought to be headlining it. Or perhaps the Treasury should consider changing the value of the eagles it issues and begin printing a 1 ounce copper eagle with a value of 1 dollar, changing the silver eagle to 10 dollar face value. The "Copper Eagle" would provide the mint with a seniorage of somewhere between $1.70 and $3.70 per coin based on the current price of the copper rounds being sold. The mint has got to make money somewhere.

    Disclosure: I have no positions in any stocks mentioned, and no plans to initiate any positions within the next 72 hours.
     
  8. Eat Beef

    Eat Beef Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Is there an economical penny sorter? Last one I heard about was Ryedale's, but as I remember it was pretty high, like over a grand?

    If I wanted to hoard copper, I'd put an ad up buying copper wire for a little above scrap price. You could still get it below spot. Paying a huge premium? Sorry, that aint my thang!
     
  9. TiKi

    TiKi Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Hey look copper bullion without the crazy premium.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Mr. Shiny

    Mr. Shiny Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Naw, you can get a Ryedale for under a third ounce of gold ($500usd), still high though.
     
  11. Gcubed

    Gcubed Banned

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    Hire the neighbors kids. They work cheap and have good eyes.
     
  12. Solo

    Solo Midas Member Midas Member

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    Regarding 1oz Cu rounds... They're really a novelty as it will be quite sometime before they would ever have an intrinsic value greater than your purchase price. Still, I find them interesting and to be honest I wouldn't mind picking up a hundred ounces of rounds if they were $1 or less. Considering they're only worth roughly $.14 right now even a dollar each is quite the premium...

    I've seen youtube clips of people showing you how to make a sorter for under $100.
     
  13. Mr. Shiny

    Mr. Shiny Silver Member Silver Miner

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    These guys http://copperpennysorter.com/main.sc have a sorter for $70usd, or $35usd if you are handy.

    No hopper though, so you have to feed it by hand.

    The 35 dollar 'handyman' unit is actually a good deal (price wise), the Chinese company that makes the comparator sells them for ~$11usd and wants ~$22 for shipping. Also, the CoinAlyzer is pre-tuned for pennies.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2011
    charlie1023 and Solo like this.
  14. Fiat Metaler

    Fiat Metaler Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I have several one-tenth troy ounce copper rounds. they are .950 fine and made by a name-brand mint. i can let these go for melt, which is about $300 shipped for 10,000 rounds. pm me if you are interested.
     
    curmudgeonista and HoldingAg like this.
  15. TylerDurden

    TylerDurden Seeker Seeker

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    This is the sorter I own. I bought the handyman unit, duct-taped 2 wood dowel rods to it, then duct-taped the rods to a coffee can. The zinc pennies fall in the can, the copper ones fall in a tupperware dish I sit next to the can. The setup looks horrible and was only meant to be temporary, but it works fine so I haven't felt the need to build a wooden box. I can get through a box of pennies in an hour so for the price, I agree it's a pretty good deal. Also, this company sells these units on ebay and if you use mrrebates and ebucks, it's a little cheaper (at least when I got mine it was).
     
  16. Meetzos

    Meetzos Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    You young guys wouldn't know what a penny used to be used for, the old timers know. Old homes that had fuse boxes in them, when a fuse blew you just screwed in a penny if you didn't have a spare. Then hoped your house didn't burn down.:vollkommenauf: In case we go back to fuses you guys would be rolling in dough.
     
  17. Eat Beef

    Eat Beef Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    No neighbors. Besides, kids have sticky fingers!

    You guys out in AZ don't know what it's like to pay a labor bill, you're too used to just Shanghai-ing a wetback...







    You probably voted for McCain't, too!
     
  18. Eat Beef

    Eat Beef Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Durden/Shiny,

    How accurate are these things? Close to 100%? I'm starting to seriously think about buying one...

    The same unit works on pennies and halves? Somebody talk me down, I see a new project in my 7 year old's future...
     
  19. Mr. Shiny

    Mr. Shiny Silver Member Silver Miner

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    While I don't own one, or for that fact stack copper, eeewwww *wretchs and pukes a bit in his mouth*.
    The Ryedale and the CoinAlyzer use the same technology, the difference is Ryedale built a hopper/feeder system to feed the comparator a stream of coins. Is that worth $465 or $430? Only you can decide. Accruacy is dependant on how it is tuned, (Ryedale's could be tuned for Ag, but of course it won't feed 90%), the CoinAlyzer needs to be tuned for 90% (it comes cent tuned). But I'm fairly sure a human eyeballing cents would make more errors than the comparator if it were tuned properly, and it'll be a lot faster doing it.
     
  20. TylerDurden

    TylerDurden Seeker Seeker

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    Pretty darn close so far in my experience. I've been sorting pennies for a while now so I can kind of tell which ones don't look like copper. I've caught a couple as they were going through that came out the wrong side but that's out of maybe 7 or 8 boxes so far. I'm not sure if any have gotten past me, but I'll periodically just check a handful every now and then and haven't had any problems.

    Yup. From what I gather you just have to change the coin that's inside the machine to whatever you're looking for, adjust the slot, and you're good. I've never tried it on halves though so I'm not sure if there's anything else to it. I emailed the guy that runs the company and he got back to me the same day and was very helpful, so I'm guessing he'd be glad to walk you through the process if you had questions.
     
  21. ccjoe

    ccjoe Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Copper will have it's day and be the new silver.
    The 13750 ozs of copper for every oz of gold is specious thinking at best, dishonest at worst. The reason is obviously because virtually NO gold is used up and millions of tons of cu are used up every year.
    IMHO and many experts, within 10 years, cu will be more rare than gold.
     
  22. ccjoe

    ccjoe Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I'll put my faith in Barrick who is much smarter than me> http://www.copperconnects.com/
    If they make that kind of investment, than my 50K may turn out all right.
     
  23. Gcubed

    Gcubed Banned

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    Copper will be more rare than gold and Zed gets banned. WTF???
     
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  24. Chester-Copperpot

    Chester-Copperpot Gold Member Site Supporter Gold Chaser

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    Your best bet is to buy rolls of Nickels and then wait until the melt ban is lifted on those. I'm thinking 5 years tops until the ban is lifted on melting pennies and nickels.
     
  25. Argentsum

    Argentsum Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I wouldn't mind loading up on some copper bullion. Where can I find it at spot plus 5 percent?
     
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  26. ccjoe

    ccjoe Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    G--you are very smart but not smarter than aaron regent CEO of Barrick>http://en.rian.ru/business/20110425/163695908.html
    Because a lot of people think copper is the new gold and I agree does not have anything to do with being banned?
    Zed was NOT banned because he couldn't see cu being the investment of the decade after silver of course.
    He was banned merely to solidify TWO top slots in the BBHOF!
    You are secure too G:)
     
  27. ccjoe

    ccjoe Gold Member Gold Chaser

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  28. ccjoe

    ccjoe Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I'm starting to think I wasn't so stupid as my wife is telling me for hedging my bets and buying that cu instead of silver.
    Silver is a sure thing NOW as cu WILL be a sure thing but WHEN?
     
  29. Eat Beef

    Eat Beef Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Hommel, is that you?
     
  30. curmudgeonista

    curmudgeonista Banned

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    Yessir, the word for these starts with "BULL" alrighty, but I don't believe "BULLION" is what 1000%-2000% over spot brings to mind.
     
  31. txfxtrader

    txfxtrader New Member

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    I just checked Ebay and bids range from $2.26 up to $8.21 for a 1 ounce copper eagle. WTF???
     
  32. TylerDurden

    TylerDurden Seeker Seeker

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    From a convenience standpoint you're correct. But if you don't mind sorting, I'm not sure how anyone could argue that pennies aren't the best way to go.
     
  33. TiKi

    TiKi Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Whoever is minting the stuff is making a killing.
     
  34. Mr. Shiny

    Mr. Shiny Silver Member Silver Miner

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    O.K. Joe,
    Thinking cap time now, if millions of tons of copper are used each year, and those tons of copper end up in our houses, businesses and appliances. And if copper surpasses gold in rarity (and price), are you planning on moving your 'palatial estate' into your Super Secret Ultra-High Security facility? Because that would mean each and every house, apartment, garage, business, telephone pole, buried power cable, small appliance, on and on, and on, would be incredibly valuable and roving bands of 'liberators' will strip you bare.
    You really missed your calling, you should try science fiction author.
     
  35. Sheepdog

    Sheepdog Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Oh CCJoe! I also hear that bottle caps are going to be the next strategic metal! and those plastic bread ties!
    :36_11_6:

    all hail the new copper baron! :emotions15:
     
  36. ccjoe

    ccjoe Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Come on you 2 are already solidly in the top ten!
    Are you looking to upgrade and replace Zed:)
     
  37. curmudgeonista

    curmudgeonista Banned

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    I read it. It says copper mining is very profitable at these price levels... and therefore, increased production is inevitable. Maybe we can expect surging prices for a couple of years, but not for the long run... and nothing like the ridiculous predictions you run around making ($80 lb Cu? LMAO).

    Joe, you're still filtering out anything that's contrary to your fairy tale dreams.
     
  38. Mr. Shiny

    Mr. Shiny Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Sorry Joe, this is not a viable response to my post.
    Admit your comment on the rarity of copper was posted without benfit of thought on your part.
    You very well know that copper is in no way, shape or form of becoming "more rare" than gold, and if it did, the infrastructure of every country (barring 3rd world) would be destroyed by scoundrels stripping the copper.
    You've made the same specious comments about silver. Please do your homework, rather than only reading comments by talking heads/gurus whom you agree with. It does wonders to actually formulate one's own conclusion on a topic rather than having sunshine blown up your dress because it's what you want to hear.
     
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  39. Ruprick

    Ruprick Seeker Seeker

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    Ryedale Coin sorting machine has been just under $500 for a long time. Best value out ther that I know of - I have one with over 8 million coins sorted and still going strong.
     
  40. ccjoe

    ccjoe Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I listened to gurus, invested 50K, and will live with my decision.
    I certainly WON'T admit that some goon on a website with a small ego is right so he can feel good about himself.
    Deal with it shiny one. You are wrong.
    I believe Dr. Steve Leeb who predicted 80 (NOT ME) before a know it all bully on a website.
    Is that sufficient?
    FYI- I do homework 17 hours a day so look in the mirror before posting foolishness.
     

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