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A list of bars to avoid when bidding on ebay

Discussion in 'Gold Silver (All things Metal)' started by Silver Art, May 27, 2012.



  1. Silver Art

    Silver Art Silver Art Bar collector Gold Chaser

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    I originally posted on the silver art bar thread but I also felt that it was important for me to post this as a separate thread. Most of you probably already know this but there are several lurkers on GIM that may not know this so I will post this again:

    To avoid getting scammed on ebay, here are some types of bars to stay away from:

    1. Any bar that is stamped "100 mills" on it. These are silver-plated.

    2. Any bar that is stamped "clad" on it. These are silver plated.

    3. Any bar with a reverse that is stamped "In Clad We Trust" on it.

    4. Any bar with a reverse that is says "American Royal Mint" on it. These are stamped "15 grains". 480 grains silver = 31.1 grams of silver = 1 troy oz of silver.

    5. Any bar that is stamped "German Silver" anywhere on it. This is not real silver.

    6. Any 1-gram silver bars. Those are too small IMO and they are grossly overpriced on ebay.


    The reason that I started this thread because I have seen many ebay buyers make the mistake of bidding on silver bars thinking that they are real 1-troy oz. .999 pure silver bars.

    This following recently completed ebay auction is an example of an ebay buyer making this mistake:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1oz-SILVER-...60804583453?pt=Bullion_US&hash=item2570b3381d

    This ebay seller grossly over-paid for this silver-plated art bar. See #4

    Those above mentioned bars are NOT 1-troy oz .999 pure silver bars. These are silver-plated bars. If a person is looking for 1-troy oz. .999 pure silver bars of any kind, then they should avoid auctions that are selling silver-plated bars. If you stay away from those bars mentioned above, then you will be ok in my opinion when bidding (or buying as BIN) on ebay. DYODD.


     
    Last edited: May 27, 2012
  2. Gold Rush

    Gold Rush Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Good info for newbie's Silver Art.......Wonder how many have been taken on this one also [video]http://www.asseenontvvideo.com/512053/50-Dollar-Buffalo-Gold-Coin.html[/video]
     
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  3. hammerhead

    hammerhead Not just a screen name Gold Chaser

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    Thanks for pointing that out SilverArt.

    Am surprised that sellers feedback didn't have more negitives, but I am sure that all were "As Described" in some form.

    When I bid on Fleabay, it is usually ending soonest or BIN, so I have gotten bit once or twice. But upon reciept, they were as described.

    I have yet to leave negitive feedback. The ones that give me a hard time on returns though, I leave a positive feedback with a negitive comment.
     
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  4. Silver Art

    Silver Art Silver Art Bar collector Gold Chaser

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    There is also another silver-plated bar to avoid when bidding on ebay. Here are a couple of examples of what it looks like:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1oz-America...359?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc672dd97

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAP...%2FDkq499dqDGy5BCSYp8%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

    It is a silver-plated U.S. Flag bar that looks like the same U.S. Flag silver art bar that was minted by Silvertowne. Even though this bar in the link is stamped "One Ounce .999 fine silver" on the reverse, it is apparently a silver-plated bar. Auctions like these are dangerous because it is very easy for an ebay seller to sell this silver-plated bar as a real .999 pure 1-troy-oz silver art bar.

    This is a tough one for me but the difference from what I can tell between the silver-plated U.S. flag bar and the real .999 pure 1-troy oz bar from Silvertowne is that the silver-plated one has a proof-like "mirror" finish to it. The real Silvertowne U.S. Flag silver bar has a "frosted" look to it.

    Here is an ebay link example of what the real Silvertowne U.S. Flag bar should like like:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAP...%2FDkq499dqDGy5BCSYp8%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

    The appearance on this real one has more of a "frosted" look to it while the silver-plated one has a proof-like mirror image appearance to it.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2012
  5. Silver Art

    Silver Art Silver Art Bar collector Gold Chaser

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    This ebay auction link is an example of what an American Royal Mint silver-plated bar auction looks like:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110889318988&_trksid=p2043183.m1253

    Notice how that ebay seller says 1-oz silver but also says 15 grains. 15 grains of .999 silver is NOT 1 troy oz of .999 silver (480 grains = 1 troy oz). Just in case this ebay auction "disappears" and for those that have never seen it before, here is what the reverse side of an American Royal Mint silver-plated bar looks like:

    AmericanRoyalMintAgplate.jpg
     
  6. Dude

    Dude Midas Member Midas Member

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    This kind of practice really irks me. I'm sure there's people sitting with piles of copper and piles of silver plate marking off the day when they think they will be able to retire. The seller knows it's deceptive and it's done intentionally all the time.
     
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  7. Silver Art

    Silver Art Silver Art Bar collector Gold Chaser

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    I am putting this in the "bars to avoid" category.........................

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/16-ounce-si...61044354943?pt=Bullion_US&hash=item3cc774bf7f

    I saw this on another forum that I occasionally post on and I thought that I should post this ebay auction link here as well to give a heads up. I guess that I must have been under a rock for a while but this is the first time that I have seen a picture of this type of bar. I have heard of gold-plated tungsten bars but not silver-tungsten bars. The ebay seller says that it is a 16-oz "silver/tungsten" bar.

    The ebay seller's description says the following: "I bought some of these about 3 years ago and this one had the best eye appeal. This bar has the feel and sound of a bona fide silver bar but has been diluted with some tungsten. None the less there is still significant silver value to consider. If you believer silver will stay where it is at or go much higher then this is the bar for you to put back. You will receive the bar shown. Fast (insured for $200) shipping!"

    Based on that description, It is of my opinion that this bar is a silver-plated tungsten bar since there is no mention of how much silver is in that tungsten bar. I have never heard of this before. I am going to say "Buyer Beware" on this one. This one should be avoided since it is not .999 pure silver. Since it has what appears to be Chinese markings on it, then there is nothing further to say on this.

    EDIT: Actually it does say in the "item specifics" section of the description "estimated third or more silver" but I have my doubts. It is still my opinion that this is a silver-plated tungsten bar.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2012
  8. Al K. Hall

    Al K. Hall Seeker Seeker

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    Sadly, the list of eBay silver bars that are trustworthy is much shorter than the list of what to avoid.
     
  9. TomD

    TomD It blowed up, y'all Gold Chaser

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    Tungsten is almost twice as dense as silver, right at the density of gold. The bar would be very heavy and that doesn't make any sense at all. It is certain that the bar is worthless.

    Apparently you need to read very carefully, look at the pictures and then parse everything before buying metals through ebay. If ebay was at all concerned with their image they would allow the sales of "replica" stuff in a way that would guarantee that any buyer with a room temp IQ would have to know what was for sale. And it would have to be clearly marked on the bar or coin too.
     
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  10. Silver Art

    Silver Art Silver Art Bar collector Gold Chaser

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    I found another potential silver-plated silver art bar on ebay and here is an example of what I am talking about:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Vintag...30771291542?pt=Bullion_US&hash=item1e72938d96

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Vintag...30771291542?pt=Bullion_US&hash=item1e72938d96

    I am not sure if those above two auctions are real silver or silver-plated silver art bar or not since the ebay seller did not take a picture of the reverse side of those two bars but I wanted to bring this to people's attention because there is a real .999 pure silver version and a silver-plated version of those particular bars such as the ones that are pictured in the above 2 ebay auction links.

    The real 1-troy oz .999 pure silver bar that I am talking about was minted by Tri-State Refining in the early '80's and they are stamped with the 1-oz .999 fine silver on the reverse. Some of the real Tri-State Refining bars are stamped "Cameo Classics" on the reverse side of the bar. The silver-plated ones will look like those in the two above example ebay auction links and I believe that those silver-plated ones will say "Guaranteed 15 grains of .999 fine silver" instead of "Guaranteed One Troy Ounce of .999 fine silver" I have seen a silver-plated version of a Cameo Classics bar at a flea market before and he showed it to me.

    Here is an example of what a real one looks like:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-One-Troy-...=&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

    The silver-plated one will say something like "Guaranteed 15 grains of .999 fine silver". I wish I could fine an example of a silver-plated one online but no success at this time.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2012
  11. waveone

    waveone New Member

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    In all candor that type of practice especially in specialty items such as bars-and coins is too common . Although people are stupid-buying in silver and gold right now on Ebay which motiovates the unscrupulous to list ridiculously priced items for sale that are either outright rip offs or incredibly overpriced.

    THe only bars I have I bought when silver was in the 5-6 dollar range. All are either 1oz Englehard bars individually wrapped in hard plastic or the 10 Oz Englehard bars.

    Although one other is from private mint with the Morgan and Peace dollar design on the front and a 4 oz replica of a Civil War $20 bill- very cool.

    Thought about listing them , but can't bring myself to do it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2012
  12. EO 11110

    EO 11110 He Hate Me Mother Lode

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    also see people getting rooked on the troy pound/pound difference on lots of junk silver
     
  13. samwiii

    samwiii Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Just like the misleading listings for "1 oz junk silver" lots (sample: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-OUNCE-U-S...935?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2322ccde37) Yeah, they mean 1 ounce avoirdupois ("standard") ounce of coins, which is only 0.911458333 troy ounces of coins, which is only 0.8203124997 troy ounces of silver. Oh, but this ad is for OVER 1 ounce of coins, yet only comes to 0.858 troy ounces of silver. Obviously, there is much profit in this deception because I've yet to win one of these auctions with a bid at the true spot value.
     
  14. Jarrod32

    Jarrod32 New Member

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    This is helpful to me. I just started nosing around e-bay to see if I could find some decent deals. The good deals appear to be few and far between. Lots of overpaying going on, IMO. And particularly with regard to your comment about the gram bars. And not just the one-gram bars, either. The five and ten gram bars also seem to go for waaaay too much. I thought maybe if you went for the one-gram bars in lots of 10 or 20 that you might get a decent deal...but not to be.
     
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  15. AgAuGal

    AgAuGal Founding Member Founding Member Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    got a luagh at the listing for a "rare vintage" Pan Am bar :eek_ma:

    BTW, how much does the silver plated FLAG bar weigh? less than 1 troy oz?










    'reare
     
  16. Silver Art

    Silver Art Silver Art Bar collector Gold Chaser

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    Honestly, I do not know AgAuGal. I will venture a guess by saying that it might weigh much less than a troy-oz (28 grams????). However, I have heard of silver-plated bars weighing a troy oz but I suspect that the underlying base metal in the silver-plated bar is copper and manufacturer put in enough copper to get that bar to weigh a troy oz. I think that the 100-mills silver bars that are sold on ebay also weigh very close to a troy oz. Sometimes weighing them may not be enough. I find that the ring test works well IMO.
     
  17. Silver Art

    Silver Art Silver Art Bar collector Gold Chaser

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    I knew about this before now from others but I should have added it to my list of bars to avoid when looking for and bidding on 1-troy oz .999 silver bars on ebay. They are known as "Tibet silver bars". They supposedly contain some silver but I seriously doubt that it is silver. They are not 1-troy oz .999 silver bars and some of those have been put up for auction from Chinese-based ebay sellers and that in itself is a huge red flag. Even though they may supposedly have some silver in them (not likely IMO), I do not know exactly how much silver and since I do not know, then the best course of action for people (such as myself) that do not know what they are getting with "Tibet Silver" bars is to avoid these and not bid on them.

    Here is an online article that I found online that talks about "Tibet silver bars":

    http://www.silver-bullion-bars.org/how-to-tell-if-silver-bars-are-real.html

    Some of the ones listed in the above article are the ones already mentioned in my OP on this thread but it also gives some tips on what to look for and I feel that it will be helpful to people who bid for .999 silver bars on ebay.

    I was also able to find a couple of pictures of "Tibet silver bars". Here are a couple of examples of what "Tibet Silver Bars" look like:

    Tibet1.JPG Tibet2.jpg

    Avoid these when bidding on 1-troy oz .999 silver bars on ebay. Buyer Beware.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2012
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  18. Silver Art

    Silver Art Silver Art Bar collector Gold Chaser

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    I know that this has been mentioned here already but it is just a reminder of another fake silver bar being sold on ebay. Apparently, there are fake of Sunshine Mint bars on ebay:

    Here is an ebay auction of a fake Sunshine Mint bar that ended recently:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/271163684240

    Here is a link to the thread on another forum (CoinTalk) that got started when the OP of that thread bought one of the fake Sunshine Mint silver bars:

    http://www.cointalk.com/t223717/

    As for buying anything on ebay..................Buyer Beware and DYODD.
     

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