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Evil bicycle riders pollute the air and should be taxed.

Discussion in 'Topical Discussions (In Depth)' started by southfork, Mar 6, 2013.



  1. southfork

    southfork Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    This is worth a double WTF, they really vote for these people????????????/


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...hington_n_2805658.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular




    Washington state Rep. Ed Orcutt said bike riders pollute the environment by breathing carbon dioxide. (Photo Washington House of Representatives)


    Washington state Rep. Ed Orcutt (R–Kalama), a ranking member of the State Transportation Committee, argues that bicycling is bad for the environment and says bike riders should have to pay a tax to help maintain the state's roads.

    Update March 6, 2013 at 12:30pm:
    In an email to constituents, Rep. Orcutt apologized for his comments that riding a bicycle contributes to pollution. "My point was that by not driving a car, a cyclist was not necessarily having a zero-carbon footprint," Orcutt said in the email, according to Reuters. "In looking back, it was not a point worthy of even mentioning so, again, I apologize."

    Previously reported:

    Orcutt made his comments in an email, which was posted by the Cascade bicycle club blog on Saturday. In the message, Orcutt states bike riders pollute the environment because they produce more carbon dioxide than car drivers.

    The email from the lawmaker, which was written to bike shop owner Dale Carson, goes on to say that because bike riders have an "increased heart rate and respiration," the act of riding a bike "results in greater emissions of carbon dioxide from the rider."

    "Since CO2 is deemed to be a greenhouse gas and a pollutant, bicyclists are actually polluting when they ride," Orcutt wrote in the message, which Carson provided to The Huffington Post on Monday.

    Carson had originally written Orcutt an email arguing against a proposed 5 percent bicycle tax on bikes that cost more than $500. He said biking is good for the environment as part of his argument for why bicycle riders save taxpayers money.

    In his email response, Orcutt said a bike tax makes sense because currently drivers are the ones paying for roads and for the bike lanes on them. Cyclists, on the other hand, don't pay for roads because they don't pay a gas tax "or any transportation tax," the email states.

    HuffPost reached out to Orcutt's office for comment but did not receive an immediate response.

    The proposed bike tax would be added to the normal Washington state sales tax (6.5 percent) and local sales tax rates, which vary depending on where one lives in Washington.

    In Seattle, for example, the combined local and state sales tax rate is already 9.5 percent, meaning that if the bicycle tax is implemented, people buying a bike that costs over $500 would pay a 14.5 percent tax there. For a $600 bike, that would be an extra $87.00.

    As the Seattle Times notes, Washington's bike tax was part of a 10-year, $10 billion transportation package that was introduced in February by state House Democrats -- legislation that would also impose a tax on purchases of cars, trucks and gasoline. The bicycle tax is expected to raise $1 million throughout a 10-year period.
     
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  2. Eat Beef

    Eat Beef Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I could care less about polluting the environment, but if I'm paying throught the nose on fuel taxes to use the roads, I shouldn't have to deal with PeeWee Herman on a bike. Charge 'em $1000 per year to ride on the street, otherwise keep it on the sidewalk.
     
  3. minimus

    minimus Banned

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    That's a brilliant idea comrad !

    Socialism isn't forced upon a people, its demanded by them.
     
  4. Uglytruth

    Uglytruth Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    What about those nasty joggers, track & field, football, baseball, basketball, playgrounds, tennis courts, and thos epesky animals in the woods should pay also.......... even much-elle's lets get off our fat azz campaign..........if it saves just oen kid......
     
  5. CiscoKid

    CiscoKid They all look good through beer goggles... Gold Chaser

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    This statement pretty much sums up what I have been stating all along. That our representatives have no interest in cutting spending at all and merely spend their time in Washington dreaming up ever more inventive taxes to levy on the American people.

    “When you are riding your bicycle, tell me what taxes are being generated by the act of riding your bicycle,” Orcutt said to the Seattle Bike Blog.
     
  6. Eat Beef

    Eat Beef Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Horsecrap. My taxes pay for that road. Making me subsidize a bike rider is socialism.

    Thanks for your shortsighted input, though.
     
  7. minimus

    minimus Banned

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    So how much do you want nanny gov to tax people who walk on your road ?

    By your logic, you want to tax pedestrians.

    Some use their legs and others use their legs on wheels, people powered, that's why bicyclist are pedestrians under our laws.

    A public road is not socialism, its a public domain, like a courthouse or a library. The heavy users pay the highest fees.

    If you want to tax the pedestrians build a road for them and charge for its use, if you want a private road build it yourself.
     
  8. Eat Beef

    Eat Beef Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    It's not legal for pedestrians to walk in traffic and block it.

    But keep posting, maybe all the tard will drain out!
     
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  9. minimus

    minimus Banned

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    Its not legal for cyclist to block traffic either and, they are subject to same traffic laws as you.

    Do you have a point to make or, are you just venting more steam ?


    I've got a great idea. If you just buy a bicycle you won't have to be so envious !

    You know you want one .....
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 8, 2013
  10. Juristic Person

    Juristic Person They drew first blood Midas Member

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    Let's think this one through....

    How would the state charge a bike rider? Would all bikes require a "registration" fee? Would bike riders require a Driver's License?

    How would the state know who is riding a bike and where that person is riding it?

    What bout the 10 year old kid that rides his bike to school every day? Does he need a license? How would he be taxed?

    No disrespect, but your idea to charge bike riders $1,000/year is stupid...and it's against the law.
     
  11. nickndfl

    nickndfl Midas Member Site Supporter Midas Member

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    If you drive a car, I'll tax the street,
    If you try to sit, I'll tax your seat.
    If you get too cold I'll tax the heat,
    If you take a walk, I'll tax your feet.

    -G Harrison
     
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  12. Eat Beef

    Eat Beef Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    What law is it against?

    And who cares whether a 10 year old can ride his bike in the street. The very act is stupid.


    Keep 'em on the sidewalk, or pay for the street.
     
  13. Juristic Person

    Juristic Person They drew first blood Midas Member

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    The supreme law of the land.

    I care....as do millions of parents all over the country. When I was a kid, I rode my bike in the street every day. People, children and adults alike, ride bikes in the street all over America. It's a form of travel which is an inalienable right. People have the right to move about freely on the public right of ways.

    Bikes don't belong on the sideWALK. Side walks are made in residential area's for walking pedestrians. They are not intended to be used for bike paths. Why do you think they put bike lanes in the street?



    smh...
     
  14. Eat Beef

    Eat Beef Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    As usual, you're full of horse manure, halo.

    If one can be taxed for driving on a street, one can be taxed for riding on it.

    There is no inalienable right to ride a bicycle AT ALL, much less in the street.
     
  15. obilly

    obilly Silver Member Silver Miner

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    There is no tax for driving on the street anywhere.
     
  16. PhucilliJerry

    PhucilliJerry Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Metropolitan commuter transportation mobility tax.

    Granted it does not only tax automobile commuters, but it does not exclude them either........ And you could very easily argue it is just another payroll tax/income tax, but the name of the tax says it all

    Last year a judge struck it down but they are still "enforcing" it until the appeals process is complete........
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013
  17. Eat Beef

    Eat Beef Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I guess you don't buy fuel, Obilly?

    Here in Texas, I can buy off road fuel, and pay no taxes. The fuel is died red, and there's a $20k fine if you get caught driving on a road with untaxed fuel. The way the law is written, it's illegal to even cross a road with an ag tractor burning untaxed fuel.
     
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  18. obilly

    obilly Silver Member Silver Miner

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    how ever you choose to spin it??
     
  19. jimswift

    jimswift New Member

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    This guys reasoning for the tax is because people are breathing, not for being ON the "road".

    The "road" is just the means (jurisdiction) these crooks are using in order to take more from the people.
     
  20. Eat Beef

    Eat Beef Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    What guy?

    ten characters
     
  21. Juristic Person

    Juristic Person They drew first blood Midas Member

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    I was waiting for the attack. It's the sure fire reply of a person who can't argue their position.

    You've blatantly dodged my questions - which means your haven't thought through your position.

    Once again....

    How would the state charge a bike rider? Would all bikes require a "registration" fee? Would bike riders require a Driver's License?

    How would the state know who is riding a bike and where that person is riding it?

    What bout the 10 year old kid that rides his bike to school every day? Does he need a license? How would he be taxed?

    You don't seem to understand that unless it is for use of a private road (ie a toll road), there is no tax for personal travel on the public right of ways.

    Taxes are levied on "operator" of a "vehicle". This is what happens annually when you pay your vehicle registration. There is a Department of "Motor Vehicles" that collects this revenue for the privelege granted to your corporate entity to engage in commerce on the public roads.

    A bicycle is not a "motor vehicle". Nor is a pair of roller blades...or a pair of sneakers. It would be unconstitutional to tax a person for walking, roller-blading, skate-boarding or bike riding on a public road.
     
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  22. Eat Beef

    Eat Beef Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I didn't dodge your questions. I ignored them because they are ridiculous.

    What difference does it make how you collect/pay the tax. I would prefer that they just kept the stupid bikes out of the way of traffic, without taxes. But if the .fed leviathon insists on taxing me for use of the roads, why shouldn't others?

    They could require bicycler's licenses, or a sticker/tag on the bike if it was used on the road. It makes no difference, I only answered so you can't hide behind your strawman anymore. Oh yeah, it applies to 10 year olds, as well.

    Earlier you mentioned bike lanes. I paid for those lanes in my city with taxes. Then the city got grants from .fedgov (read: MORE OF MY MONEY) to restripe part of the lane and designate it a "bike lane". Now it's illegal to park a car in the street in front of one's own house, because it blocks the "bike lane", that was just a street and legal for parking cars up until a few years ago.

    What you don't seem to understand is that if you drive, you pay taxes on fuel. These taxes are directly related to whether or not you use public roads. So yes, you're taxed to drive, both through fuel tax, registration, etc. Heck, state mandated insurance is a tax according to the Supreme Court.

    But please, keep living in your delusional world of "corporate entities", etc, while pretending that causing a "corporate entity" that rides a bike is unconstitutional.:lollypop:
     
  23. Juristic Person

    Juristic Person They drew first blood Midas Member

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    You say tomato, I say....you dodged the questions.

    The only thing that's ridiculous here is your desire to have the State require a "bicylcler's license" or a registration tag for a 10 year old kid (or anybody for that matter) to ride a bike down the street! Are you just a huge fan of beauracracy and state imposed control systems to restrict freedom of mobility? Do you support mandatory curfews as well!?

    I learned to ride a bike when I was 5 years old. My Dad bought me my first bike for Christmas that year and he taught me how to ride it by holding onto my seat and running up and down the street with me until I was able to ride on my own. By the time I was 7 years old I was on my bike every day in the summer and I would ride down my block to friends houses. Sometimes we would ride up and down the block jsut for fun. It was my first real taste of independence. I had no license. My bike was not registered. I paid no tax to use the road. The road was already paid for and it was available for public use!

    By the way - a license is a contract and 10 year old children can not legally enter into contract with a corporate entity.

    SO what?! If you don't like it, MOVE. There are NO lines in the street in front of my house....and I still don't park in the street. That's what garages and driveways are for. But I also choose to live in a state that doesn't have asinine statutes which make it illegal to park in front of your house.

    Some of us in this country still believe in liberty and freedom with minimal government intrusion. I'm one of them.

    Yes, I understand. But paying taxes on fuel is simply paying a tax on your purchase of a commodity. It's not a tax on "driving" or the use of a road. I have a lawn mower that requires fuel. I pay tax on that fuel. I don't drive my lawn mower down the road. You are making a huge stretch....and you're not quite touching on a point.

    Registration is a tax on the purchase and ownership of a "motor vehicle". It's a "motor vehicle tax". It's not a "use of the road" tax. A bicycle is not a motor vehicle....and a bicycle rider has no more obligation to pay a tax for use of a bicycle than a skateboarder or rollerblader has an obligation to pay for the use of a skateboard or pair of rollerblades on a public road.
     
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  24. BUILT TO LAST

    BUILT TO LAST Silver Member Silver Miner

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    I drive & also ride a bike almost daily for exercize & have commuted on a bicycle in the past for exercize & to save money & parking problems & fees. My bicycle is registered & cops have stopped me & threatened tickets for riding on the sidewalk. I have also been told by them that i must obey motor vehicle laws yet i dont get respected by drivers when i do. There arent enough bike paths here & most of them are clogged with pedestrians. There also arent enough bike lanes & most of them end without warning & drivers dont respect them. I am respectful & dont drive on many steets that i consider dangerous yet everytime i ride i am put in extreme danger by a small percentage of a$$holes that dont respect cyclists. They obviously dont cycle or they would understand. Take a trip to Amsterdam & see the rights cyclists have. Most of america needs to transform its roads into more cycle (and pedestrian) friendly places.
     
  25. Eat Beef

    Eat Beef Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I'm making no stretch at all, as I said, you could by tax free gas to run in your lawn mower. Read the wording of the taxes themselves, they were put in place specifically to pay for the building and upkeep of the roads, and are called "use taxes".
     
  26. minimus

    minimus Banned

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    And by that "use" tax using the crosswalks by pedestrians could be taxed.

    I think the only reason bicycles are not taxed or registered is because it is a form of self locomotion, just like walking.

    The reason why a license is not required is because the bicycle is not registered with the government.

    Registration of personal property like a bicycle transfer's title to the government as they issue you a "certificate" of title in return.

    The government is now the holding company for your property.

    After registration with the government you are then required to have a license to operate the property under their power of attorney.

    They may also require you to insure what they are now responsible for ... your property.

    So if you damage it, the government won't get sued by you for not taking care of your property.

    Isn't government wonderful !
     
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