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How easy will it be to disable upcoming "black boxes" on cars and trucks?

Discussion in 'Topical Discussions (In Depth)' started by Nickelless, Mar 6, 2013.



  1. Nickelless

    Nickelless If coffee is gold, I own Fort Knox Midas Member

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    I was just thinking about the upcoming federal mandate for all new vehicles to have "black boxes" installed starting next year. Are you guys aware of any rogue experiments on disabling such data boxes? Are there ways to work around the boxes to keep cars running without them?
     
  2. Unclad Lad

    Unclad Lad Rhodium Imam Gold Chaser

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    Chances are it will be an integral part of the CPU that runs the car, so removing it will be impossible. What you'll start to see will be similar to the aftermarket "tuner" chips commonly seen in car magazines. However, since removing the original Big Brother chips will probably carry penalties, I would expect genuine "trackless" chips to be expensive, and underground, purchases. And, because they'll be grey/black market items, you'll not be able to tell if the offending software really isn't present, since you won't be able to complain about being ripped off...
     
  3. GOLDZILLA

    GOLDZILLA Harvurd Koleej Jeenyus Midas Member

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    Just buy an old car and fix it up. It'll be nicer and cheaper.



    [​IMG]
     
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  4. Gcubed

    Gcubed Banned

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    It will probably be a crime punishable by ...
     
  5. Ag lining

    Ag lining Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    You have no soul. You are a soul. You have a body.
    Yeah, just carry a thermite grenade in the truck for use in case of emergencies.
    And have a well rehearsed story about terrorists attacking you.
    After all, we are lead to believe by authorities that terrorists are everywhere on our soil.

    Do you think they'll "buy back from you" what they try to sell you?


    lol.
     
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  6. brosil

    brosil Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Just to let you know, our company is experimenting with a device that plugs in to the test plug under the dash and will track where the vehicle went, how you're driving it and vehicle condition. It's designed for fleet tracking. They're supposed to be sending me a weekly e-mail about how I'm driving but they never have. It downloads via cell system.
     
  7. hoarder

    hoarder Banned

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    Wouldn't a tracking device have to be able to communicate with satellites? If so, would wrapping the device in aluminum foil hinder it?

    Are they doing this so that the citizens can know where the banksters are at all times or so that the banksters can know where the citizens are at all times?:confused:
     
  8. honu5050

    honu5050 Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    what if they transmit telemetry ?
     
  9. cd120

    cd120 Seeker Seeker

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    Just get an older Jeep Wrangler. Good all around vehicle.

    All this tech is juuuuuust soooo intrusive!
     
  10. honu5050

    honu5050 Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    use lead foil of the apropreaite gauge . :thumbs_up:
     
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  11. MImilitia

    MImilitia Seeker Seeker

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    write you own efi and spark maps or dl your vehicle map from the comminity
    Www.megasquirt.info

    MegaSquirt® EFI Controller will provide fuel control on one to 16 or more injectors, of high or low impedance, and for any number of cylinders, even three and five cylinder engines and odd-fire engines. If you have MegaSquirt-II,electronic control of number of ignition systems are supported, including: 7 or 8-pin HEI from General Motors, EDIS from Ford, TFI from Ford, or you can control a single coil directly. For fuel only control, you can trigger off the coil's negative terminal.

    Or flash ecu.

    For myself its a carbed sbc.
     
  12. Nickelless

    Nickelless If coffee is gold, I own Fort Knox Midas Member

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    Will strong magnets skew the readings? There has to be a way to at least throw off the data that these devices are transmitting, if not disable them.
     
  13. Unclad Lad

    Unclad Lad Rhodium Imam Gold Chaser

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    Where this is already extensively used is in the trucking industry, and is called "Fleet Management". It's about improving efficiency.
     
  14. MImilitia

    MImilitia Seeker Seeker

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    One more caveat. You guys act like this is sonething new. GM has been doing this for years with "on star". Offered for free with most new gms

    There have been numerous instances of onstar listening in on coversations all ready. Of course they also call the cops with your gps coords ehen the air bags go off.

    Ive never had enough money for a new car so....
     
  15. AgBar

    AgBar Commodore Gold Chaser

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    Use lead for nuclear shielding. X-rays and such.

    For radio and microwaves, use copper, or silver if you want to get fancy. You want a good electrical conductor, and lead ain't so good.

    But that still won't stop the computer from recording speed, direction, acceleration, throttle position, braking, steering, etc. etc. etc.
     
  16. hoarder

    hoarder Banned

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    I don't think there are steering position sensors and the copper might shield compass readings.
    One concern about wrapping electronic devices in foil is overheating. A greater hurdle is knowing which component has the black box in it and where it's located.
     
  17. Cigarlover

    Cigarlover Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    if you disable it the car wont be able to drive itself
     
  18. AgBar

    AgBar Commodore Gold Chaser

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    I don't know if there are, now that you mention it. But they'd be easy enough to add, I imagine.

    Copper won't block more-or-less-static magnetic fields like Earth's. For that, you'd need something with a very high magnetic permeability, like a mu-metal, but even that won't be completely effective without proper design (layering, shape, thickness, etc.).

    EDIT: of course, if you knew where the compass was, you could set up an external field (fixed or electro-magnet) to make the thing think it was always going "North."

    Accelerometers could still be used to report "turned 15 degrees left" or some such. I don't know of any way to defeat those without inventing anti-gravity.


    (at least insofar as passive measures go...)




    Absolutely. :ok: Add to that: at the higher frequencies, even a small-ish gap in the shielding can let the EM leak through. Proper shielding is easier said than done, honestly.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2013
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  19. hoarder

    hoarder Banned

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    GPS tracking devices helped find stolen buses

    By Peter Nickeas. Carlos Sadovi and Rachael Levy Tribune reporters 3:28 p.m. CST, March 8, 2013

    Eight school buses were stolen from the Far South Side overnight and driven to a salvage yard, where they were cut apart and shredded into a two-story pile of scrap, police said.

    The name of the Sunrise bus company could be seen among the shards of metal at SRV Metal Scrapper, 3405 S. Lawndale Avenue, police said. Four people were taken into custody, including the owner of the company.

    The 40-foot-long buses, capable of seating 75 people, were stolen sometime overnight from the bus company's yard in the 10000 block of South Torrence Avenue and were not discovered missing until this morning, police said.

    The buses were all equipped with GPS tracking devices, and police were able to track "their entire movement" to the scrap yard on the West Side, police said.

    When officers arrived, several people who apparently worked in the scrap yard ran into a building, police said. Officers initially apprehended one person and later took two others into custody. The owner was arrested in the afternoon.

    "There was a pile of shredded school buses about two-stories high," one police official said. Some pieces were large enough that police could see the "Sunrise bus logo," the official said.

    Engines and transmissions from the buses had already been cut in half, and the seats tossed in a "big pile of scrap."
    Area Central Commander Eugene Roy said the metal will be impounded as evidence. “It was unusual to see such a large-scale theft,” he said.

    An employee said the bus yard had been closed around 7 p.m. Thursday. When workers arrived at 5 a.m. today, they discovered a gate open and a snapped lock. Police arrived at the scrap yard around 6 a.m.
    Greg Bonnett, president and co-owner of Sunrise, said he was awakened this morning with a call from a worker that the buses had been stolen.

    When the GPS signals were tracked down to the West Side, Bonnett said he expected to find 8 buses parked there. "We expected to come in and see our buses, not a mound of scrap.

    "In 40 years I have never heard of anything like this," said Bonnett, 60.


    •Related
    • Photos: Stolen buses found in salvage yard
    • Video: Scrap pile of stolen buses
    • School bus remnants



    Bonnett estimated his loss at a quarter of a million dollars. Four of the buses were equipped for special education students, including wheelchair lifts, he said. Four 2009 models, three were 2004 and one was a 2003.

    As scrap, the buses would have been worth anywhere from $1,500 to $3,500 each.

    "I don't know why they would do it," said Joe Pickard, chief economist for the Institute of Scrap Recycling Industries in Washington, D.C. "It seems like a lot of effort for not a big return. What would motivate an individual, (they're) school buses."

    Scrap prices for iron and steel are relatively low right now. They bring about 18 cents per pound compared to about $3.50 per pound for copper and about 90 cents per pound for aluminum, Pickard said.

    Even with the buses weighing 17,000 to 20,000 pounds, much of that would be from wiring, foam, rubber and materials from the seats, Pickard said.

    But Gary Bush, who was a police officer for 32 years before he began keeping track of thefts for the institute, said thieves will take whatever they can. "Anything that can be stolen, has been stolen," he said. "Literally anything of any value is a potential target."
    Sunrise has about 260 buses, and the company was able to get buses to its schools. "No Sunrise kids missed school," Bonnett said. "Equipment is equipment. It's easy to replace."
    chicagobreaking@tribune.com
     
  20. honu5050

    honu5050 Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    Re: GPS tracking devices helped find stolen buses

    Impound it for eveidence n' ship the WTC metal to india n' china asap....:hmmmm2:
     
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  21. honu5050

    honu5050 Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    for those of you concerned about this invasive products commie aspect get a stun gun with max output figure out the right wires and run a zap through it "AFTER" a problem. it should knock out all data . :cheers:
     
  22. Area51

    Area51 Seeker Seeker

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    There is. Just crash it into the side of a skyscraper.
     

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