Discussion in 'U.S. Constitution & Law' started by Goldhedge, Nov 27, 2015.
The Truth Behind IRS Lien, Levy, and Seizure
Keep it simple. Most tax issues can be reduced into two questions:
Are you liable for income tax? Answer: The Federal Zone
Are your Rights being violated?
If you are not liable for the income tax it makes no difference what amount the IRS says you owe or what rules the IRS tries to impose on you. If the IRS is trying to impose the income tax on you, but your not liable, your Rights are being violated.
The three rules of solid study!
Don't get caught up in wild tangents.
Stick to the basics.
Don't look for silver bullet remedies.
The Constitution and the Law
The Bill of Rights is the first ten amendments to the Constitution.
The Bill of Rights is the protector of our fundamental Rights. If you do not know your Rights thoroughly, click here. The Bill of Rights makes specific references to property seizure four times. The Bill of Rights speaks to due process of law eighteen times. I mention the numbers so you can answer the following questions with some certainty.
Can the IRS mandate the filing of a tax return?
Can the IRS seize property by simply sending a notice or placing a lien?
Can the IRS seize property without proving their case in a court of law?
Is filing mandatory? The answer is found in the Fifth Amendment.
The fifth amendment clearly says nobody may be compelled to be a witness against himself in any criminal proceeding. The Supreme Court has ruled that nobody may be compelled to be a witness against himself in ANY proceedings, criminal or civil.
[The fifth amendment] "applies alike to criminal and civil proceedings." McCarthy v. Arndstein, 266 US. 34
The courts have also ruled that filing an income tax return causes you to become a witness as used by the fifth amendment.
"There can be no question that one who files a return under oath is a witness within the meaning of the Amendment." Sullivan v. United States, 15 F. 2nd 809
"The information revealed in the preparation and filing of an income tax return is, for Fifth Amendment analysis, the testimony of a "witness" as that term is used herein." Garner v. United States, 424 US. 648.
Since no law may compel you to be a witness against yourself; and,
Since filing an income tax return is being a witness against yourself, then ...
Any compelled filing of tax returns would violate the fifth amendment.
If you don't file a return there can be no assessment; without an assessment there can be no liability; without a liability there can be no lien, levy or seizure.
READ THE WHOLE ARTICLE HERE:
Yeah I do like your fifth amendment argument....but, but truth be told....being compelled in court is cut short by having filed some kind of return already and then being triped up on that.
I guess it's kind of like being in proximity of a puddle of piss and having to own up to it. Best way is not to be there, other than that I kind of like that no jurisdiction post Goldhedge reinvigorated....
You know...I know I have read that stuff before. I guess what I am really saying is "Best not to get caught in the first place."
It is true but is almost impossible to fight our corrupt court system.
IRS No Authority to Levy Wages of Private Citizens
Correct BUT they have the power !!!!!
May want to read destroyed arguments by Larry Beacraft.
I love these kind of threads. The US government can't...blah blah blah.....OK, who's going to hold their feet to the fire on this? The government is the 800 lb gorilla in the room and, short of a full on revolt, nothing is going to change and these little threads will vaporize into oblivion
You don't have to be so gung-hoe John Wayne, ya do know that, that frying pan hurts when you hit us all up side the bead with it.....by the way what we're you cooking in there; a batch of reality?
Yeah, how to deal with the gorilla? Well, I guess just feed it which means compliance or kill it. What I want to know is how to get it back in the cage and weld the door shut.
Yeah, we can keep feeding the damm thing but it will keep growing always demanding more. So that option don't work which leaves the other two. Kill it or cage it?
I have "chatted" with Beacraft & Jeffrey A. Dickstein, they are pretty damned good, BUT, the monster is, more often than not, stronger.
Dickstein has been banned from fed. tax court for "unethical" practices. His practices were actually not "unethical", but certainly "innovative"
and the courts do not like those that think outside of their box.
Dickstein & Beacraft are friends, I think Diskstein now works behind the scene, but I haven't talk with them since I retired.
By my estimates if 33% of the population wake up and just stop feeding the filthy beast, that will create a foothold that would bring the rest to bear.
Anyone predicting bad things is so very very wrong, the additional 20-25% of income retained would go right back into the economy, would would almost certainly flourish as a society.
Dream on, the days of the public having any intestinal fortitude have been gone for many years, sorry to say.
So how to cage it? We have the tools so some rewriting of the constitution is bull. And, a don't by gas on this date won't work.
I do and am curious if any of you have read public law from back in the twentys? You know back when those raskely waskels were actually writing and passing tax law. Seems they changed it some what every two years and get this the "main" tax guy who was called a "commissioner" why he had to consult with the Secretary of the Tresury. He had no power and just because they decided to call their commissioners "judges" don't make them judges of anything.
Tax court if you want to call it that is article 1. So this means all they can do is take testimony and refer to article three. So I ask you "How can you harm a fiction if it can't complain?"
I don't know if i can make it any more ....any more.....Oh hell, any more plain.
They are a good place to learn what not to do!
So if I were to mail a certified copy of Rep. Dennis Hertel's letter to the IRS, they would leave me alone?
I doubt it.
He who has the most GUNS has the most power
We have the most guns.
Too many White people don't understand what is happening.
It's a big beast we have to bring down.
If we wiped out the mammoths, we can wipe out the 'elite'.
Becraft has actually argued various Constitutional style arguments with the Feds., the best scenario is usually something like a hung jury as with Vernice Kuglin who then has been hounded to death by the IRS with civil judgments.
Becraft sent me this argument he wrote out: http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/uncertain.htm And the envelope it was sent in had X marks all over the seams of the envelope in case it was tampered with or to call attention by Feds to it?? I later met him at a Save the Patriot dinner in MD.
Becraft is very expensive, and I haven't seen him showing much success.
This guy beat the IRS but not on the Constitution or anything, just the penalties and interest recently: http://www.quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=10874
Cage, I'm thinking a cage...to kill it is to? Well that is an opened ended question is it not?
Beacraft has a very large ego, Dickstein, however is pretty down to earth.
Dickstein was winning due to unorthodox court room antics, not unethical, just innovative.
The juries were often convinced.
But "his royal judgeship" did not appreciate it, nor the wins, hence the BAN.
At present "We" are not organized to act. Things have not gotten bad enough on the individual home front.
"We Are Following Orders" ( sound familiar?) comes from the mouths of the .gov proletariat line staff who do the Dirty Work. AKA: Paycheck(Money) before Honor
I believe that the authority that is needed is a "warrant of distraint".
In order to obtain that, I believe they must prove individual liability.
But many employers/banks wouldn't know this or perhaps follow it if tgey were educated.
I don't think a private person deals in public welfare ponzi schemes like SS.
When the IRS emptied all my bank accounts and ordered my PayPal account shut-down irrevocably, I was the last to find out.
The notice was placed in my PO box while I was on business in NYC, and amazingly, the single warning levy notice was returned by USPS to the IRS the day before my return home.
On the following pay day AM, they cleaned out the accounts.
IRS is a private collection agency run by thugs who know they are beyond reproach, and backed by a kangaroo court which I would never dare enter.
There have been some questions as to the credibility of the purported letter from former Rep. Hertel: http://www.quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=10904
What looks a little fishy is the "your federal government" line. Do they really talk like that? It's more like "you goddam pissant, peon, peasant, nonentity, turd, shit-kicker and moocher, how dare you petition us for your 'rights', we own you and anything you get from your masters is a privilege".
No, but I don't believe that obligated participation in s.s. or filing a return is the point of naturalization that creates u.s. 14th amendment citizenship. Citizenship is defined as allegience and a "citizen" is one who owes his allegience to a particular state which would be a set of political statements, beliefs & ideologies.. I believe that affirming an oath during voter registration or pledging ones life during selective service registration are stronger attatchments and proofs of allegience and citizenship and thus are the actions which create naturalization to 14th amendment citizenry. Those actions are opposite the means of expatrition from 14th amendment citizenry and thus the logical and reasonable means of naturalization TO U.S. (D.C.) citizenship.
Having unhesitantly and freely, while in full knowkedge of tge facts and electives chosen to participate in the s.s nexxus or filed a tax return could be considered evidence of being willing/wanting to be federal 'property' [res-ident], and U.S.corporal person, subject to its jurisdiction, at least until the person expatriates or rebuts the assumption.
SSA is sometimes used as a carrot before the horse to seduce , pledge and subject the individual into every other program, obligation and attatchment of the federal corporal militant plantation and become a subject or "person" to their ideologies, beliefs, statements and actions which may differ from thise hesitant participants. Not saying that all aspects of it are bad or "evil".
This collection of articles is some of the best I've seen. The article on the 16th ammendment really clarifies from a supreme court perspective what that 'act' was about. It was basically saying and reaffirming that [net] income from ALL corporate, federal sources were able to be taxed as excise taxes of articl 1 sect 8, clause 1. There had been a few sources of federal income [1 in particular] that were being claimed to be in the class of direct taxation, and to be apportioned among the states. The amendment was only supposed to only clear up that confusion. I believe these sources are coded in section 871 as income from "within" the U.S. (federal area or govt).
Here is some more good info on this topic. Earlier on the website there is info about the 1909 corporate tax act as the foundation for the 16th amendment and meaing of the word income. A 'writ of execution' is needed to enforce a levy. http://www.synapticsparks.info/evidence/c12/levy6.html
Your assumption is that the taxes people fork over actually go to supporting the government.
They do not.
If you were to 'kill the beast' the 'beast' would simply borrow the money like they have always done.
Not all information out there is acurate, but is often part of the whole of information to be considered.
The term trade or business "includes" the performance of the function of a public office. The word includes limits the definition to those stated words. In this case, it is as if to say the term trade or business means the performance of the functions of a public office.
See 26 1402 (a) & (b); 26. 7701 (a)26; sect 162 of title 26 and title 5 cfr 5312. There it lists the names of the offices
If a private citizen of a state or a non immigrant non resident alien would contract to perform work for a federal govt office; lets say build a post office; that would be an example of work effectively connected with a "trade or business" and require the submission of a ss#or foreign itin on a 1099.(1042-s for some activities ) The payments would be taxable to either u.s. citizens, state nationals, or non immigrant, non resident
Though recieving payments in frn as debt obligstion seems to create a nexxus to a 'public office' and liability to the causes of those debts, it is logical/reasonable that payments in frns can also represent lawful food, clothing, shelter etc to a lawful natural person and thus lawfull money to that person.
The federal income tax didn't begin with the 16th nor with the constitution, but with a federal tax act in @ 1862 ? or 1866? to tax the officers of the civil war. In other words George washington would not have paid federal income tax. Thus its war/fed govt related. I'm not sure of all the logic behind the justification, but since the war was a inter-state war, it was concidered a inter-national war and subject to federal congress, just war theory and thus international law; over which they claim' jurisdiction' as if the people are citizens of D.C. of the area given exclusive jurisdiction by the constitution. art 1, sect 8, clause 17, i think it is.
It, (the federal income tax) is rightfully administered as a exise and thus indirect tax only to 14th amendment citizens (corporal persons and employees) of U.S. or for work performed as an employee or non employee of a federal business/office.
This is the same federal "subject/citizen-liability through naturalization created by the 14th amendment.
This is absolutely correct.
It is up to us to find all of the pieces of the puzzle, or at least enough of them in order to see the big picture.
Once you do, it becomes much easier to see how to fight the beast.
After filing and paying zero taxes last year the IRS could....http://s98.photobucket.com/user/ricc_01/media/donkeykiss.gif.html
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