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Perth Mint to End Free Silver Storage

Discussion in 'Gold Silver (All things Metal)' started by phideaux, Mar 28, 2011.



  1. phideaux

    phideaux Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    From the Desk of Peter Schiff
    Dear Investor,

    For years, Euro Pacific Capital has offered clients the benefits of offshore purchase and storage of precious metals through the world-renowned Perth Mint Certificate Program (PMCP). The Mint's "unallocated silver account," in which purchasers buy and hold silver bullion while paying no storage fees, has been one of the most inexpensive ways to invest in physical silver.

    Unfortunately, the Perth Mint has become a victim of its own success and has found itself holding too much unallocated silver. So, it has decided to discontinue the program as of May 1<SUP>st</SUP> of this year. Fortunately, any holdings purchased before that deadline will be "grandfathered" in - meaning free storage until you decide to sell. (This applies to unallocated silver holdings you may already own at Perth, and any you buy before May 1st.)

    I'm writing this notice to alert you of the deadline to lock in free storage when purchasing unallocated silver through the Perth Mint Certificate Program.

    If you are interested and do not already have a PMCP account, please call 800-993-8350 and ask for Matt or Danielle Psarras today. (See note "A" below.) If you already have a PMCP account, contact your PMCP broker at 800-993-8350 if you wish to add to your holdings before May 1st. (See note "B" below.)

    Once again, April is the last month the Perth Mint will offer free storage of silver bullion - no exceptions. As of May 1st, the least expensive way to store silver at the Perth Mint will start at 0.95% per year. For an investment of $100,000, you could end up spending over $10,000 in storage over ten years - and more if the dollar value of your silver rises. So, visit our website, do your research, but please don't hesitate should you decide to lock in free silver storage at the Perth Mint.

    I believe that US investors should hold at least 5-10% of their portfolios in physical precious metals. As the US government confronts its decades of reckless spending and money-printing, it may turn to extreme measures like confiscatory tax rates or asset seizures to pay its bills, and you may wish to have some savings stored abroad. Even if it never comes to that, the Perth Mint Certificate Program is a competitively priced storage option for those who don't want to hold all their bullion at home.

    Of all the overseas storage locations, I chose the Perth Mint for its long history, stellar reputation, and location in one of the world's most attractive economies. Australia is a low-debt country with a dependable legal system. The Mint itself has been in operation since 1899 and is owned by the Government of resource-rich Western Australia.

    Given its location, reputation, and competitive pricing, it is surprising that Perth Mint has waived storage fees for its unallocated silver for so long. Unfortunately, the free lunch is over. That's why it's so important for those looking to purchase unallocated silver to lock in free storage before May 1st.
    I believe silver should benefit in dollar terms as the Fed's massive inflation circulates around the world economy, and will likely benefit in real terms as industrial and jewelry demand grow from emerging markets. The Perth Mint Certificate Program is a reliable way to hold silver securely overseas.

    This is not a promotion or a sale. Once the Perth Mint stops offering unallocated silver, I do not expect them to start again. I hope you'll take action today to help secure your assets for tomorrow.

    Cordially,
    Peter Schiff
    CEO & Chief Global Strategist
    Euro Pacific Capital
     
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  2. Gcubed

    Gcubed Banned

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    Further evidence of a shortage. The stuff is clogging up the work space at the mint!!! ROTFLMFAO!!!! :36_11_6:
     
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  3. phideaux

    phideaux Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    The unallocated silver held by Perth Mint does not belong to them. It would be a criminal act for them to sell even one ounce of it into the market to alleviate a "shortage."
     
  4. Gcubed

    Gcubed Banned

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    Unallocated silver is working stock financed for free by the certificate holder. An interest free loan so to speak. It's allocated that can't be touched.
     
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  5. dacrunch

    dacrunch Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    "self-storage" has quickly become the only "secure" option...

    :bandit:
     
  6. Logan

    Logan New Member

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    Oh for crying out loud! Can't any of you read between the lines? The Perth Mint's unallocated storage program is a joke! In the 2008 crisis they all but refused to redeem their own silver certificates! They don't have the silver! Ask yourself why they offer certificates with no storage or insurance fees? TANSTAAFL!!!

    This is an obvious and transparent attempt to drum up demand for yet more worthless unbacked silver paper, and to take pressure off of the physical market. Ask yourself: why else would they offer to "Grandfather" old accounts? Tell me WHY?!
     
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  7. EO 11110

    EO 11110 He Hate Me Mother Lode

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    the dupes are more likely to pull their silver out now. i see this as a positive.
     
  8. Gcubed

    Gcubed Banned

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    They made a deal and they are honoring it? That means a WHOLE lot in this business.
     
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  9. southfork

    southfork Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    What they mean is we really never had any physical silver to cover what we sold, we are now afraid it might come back and bite us if we get caught so we will now have to have real silver and store it so now we have to charge.
     
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  10. Logan

    Logan New Member

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    No, because they don't want certificate holders to ask for their silver rather than pay storage and insurance fees.

    You speak of honor? They are a government backed mint. A person can be honorable and trustworthy. A government? Do you think anyone in the Australian government or at the Mint is afraid of going to jail for this fraud?

    You are just baiting me. Go buy some of their paper while the "free lunch" lasts, Gcubed.
     
  11. Gcubed

    Gcubed Banned

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    Logan, I deal in physical for a living. I got started in this industry in the late 70's. Go take a hike. ;)
     
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  12. Logan

    Logan New Member

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    You are a Troll, a Shill, and a Cointelpro agent, SIR.
     
  13. Ragnarok

    Ragnarok I'd rather be Midas Member

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    Why? It's not like it takes as much space to store stacked sheets of paper as compared to REAL, HARD, COLD METAL.

    R.
     
  14. Gcubed

    Gcubed Banned

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    Whatever you say Logan. You're my hero!! :biggrin:



    idiot
     
  15. Gcubed

    Gcubed Banned

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    Hey Logan, I put on my "Coinintelpro Agent" hat and got in contact with one of my Aussie counterparts. Rather than risk confusion in a relay of thoughts, I'll cut and paste the actual words of agent 008 and 3/4's:

    Tell Logan that the replacement program will be allocated with storage fees, ask him how they are going to manage that with no silver.

    Also ask him what a government employee on wages has to gain by breaching the Mints charter, which is enshrined in law. These guys are government grunts working wages, not profiteering criminals!

    Also it is the WA State government, not the Australian government.... which also happens to over see MASSIVE BHP operations, who happen to have the LARGEST silver mine in the world. Believe me if they where stuck for metal the merest hint of a suggestion would have BHP saying how much, when and where. BHP have massive interests to protect and the last thing they would want is WA government offside or in a hole for metal. ---> Not that it would ever get that far.

    Also remind him that they have run a surcharge on silver for a year or so now, the surcharge was to fund the extra storage. Generally Ponzi schemes don't work if the person running it dissuades inflows!

    They are honoring or grandfathering the old accounts because PMDS clients have a signed contract that they need to honor, I am sure the certs say similar.

    Lastly they sell huge amounts of finished product, the certs and the PMDS are their hedge, just how dose he think it works if they have no metal in their hedge. Just how dose he think it works if they have to go buy new metal every time they run coins.

    The very fact that they are doing what they are doing tells you it is a real problem for them... otherwise why change?

    Idiots!


    Oh, He also suggested that I tell you to go play with your G.I. Joe. ;)

    Agent Gcubed, out.
     
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  16. phideaux

    phideaux Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    Sorry, in my haste, I did not express my point clearly. And maybe Perth is a bit different than Kitco, but there, the terms of the pool agreement specifically require the unallocated pool to be backed 100% by physical. The custodian is not allowed to sell physical from the pool without a sell order from the investor in the pool. Sure, they could do it, but doing so would be in violation of the Pool Agreement.
     
  17. Gcubed

    Gcubed Banned

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    I'd respectfully suggest that you read the agreement again. Unallocated account holders have the limited rights of an unsecured creditor. Pool accounts serve as refinery/mint inventory financing. Inventory moves. Allow me to add, that physical may well be work in progress, impure refinery feed. They will do as they wish with finished product. Fair enough?
     
  18. Gcubed

    Gcubed Banned

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    Fido, That "physical" could also be the silver nitrate tied up in electrolyte. Lots of money is tied up in refinery inventory. It is far from all being finished product. Check with Mr. Shiney if you think I'm fulla chit. ;)
     
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  19. Bron Suchecki

    Bron Suchecki VP Operations at Monetary Metals LLC

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    Thanks Gcubed for responding.

    Logan - "This is an obvious and transparent attempt to drum up demand for yet more worthless unbacked silver paper, and to take pressure off of the physical market."

    If we wanted to take pressure off the physical market, why would we be CLOSING unallocated silver? Wouldn't it make more sense to keep it going. Plus, why then offer a GoldMoney-style physically backed product at the same time?

    "They are a government backed mint. A person can be honorable and trustworthy. A government?"

    Perth Mint is owned by the West Australian STATE government, not the Federal government and our Central Bank has no control over us. A lot of West Australian voters work in mining and gold mining, the government isn't going to do anything to hurt them. You are thinking far too simplistically about the political dynamics.

    As to the idea that some people have that the Perth Mint doesn't have any metal and unallocated is all paper, I'd suggest reading this personal blog post of mine on that issue http://goldchat.blogspot.com/2008/12/mint-has-no-gold-again.html

    The Perth Mint refines around 300 tonnes of gold and 160 tonnes of silver a year. Bullion banks come to us bidding for that output, we don't have to go begging to them. The idea that we have no metal just doesn't stand up.

    "Ask yourself why they offer certificates with no storage or insurance fees?"

    Suggest you read http://www.perthmintbullion.com/Blog/Blog/11-02-28/Understanding_Unallocated.aspx
     
  20. Zed

    Zed Size doesn't count! Midas Member

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    By the way guys Bron is from the Perth Mint, just in case it is not obvious to you.

    Bron, this is the twilight zone, talking sense here is not going to work very well! I wish you luck in your endeavor to set the record straight.
     
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  21. Gcubed

    Gcubed Banned

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    Damn Zed! Guess he out ranks me as a "Cointelpro Agent". :(
     
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  22. Bron Suchecki

    Bron Suchecki VP Operations at Monetary Metals LLC

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    I did put a note in my signature that I'm from the Perth Mint. Doesn't show up, will have to look at my user settings.

    I thought we at least needed to defend ourselves and people can make up their own minds.
     
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  23. Oz Waver

    Oz Waver Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Hi Bron,

    Welcome to this forum it's a bit more liberal than that other place I see you.

    I do know that Perth Mint has had problems 'sourcing' silver in the past. As I know someone that claimed to have helped both the Perth Mint and ABC source silver. I'll get more info on this... (though you may know who it is... I won't mention any names)

    There are major problems in my eyes with Perth Mint Certificates and it is a form of "paper" silver. Combined with the amount of metals on Certificate form and the 'settlement' in fiat...
    I'd have to ask you how much metal make up Certificate program and how much do you process that is held unpurchased against it?

    I would image that Perth Mint has futures contracts that it manages it Programs with... sure. But when there is a physical squeeze with the metals, especially silver, then there is a problem. I think it is very clear why this is being discontinued. Too much demand, not enough metal, too much physical exposure (especially when the markets are heavily in backwardation).

    Government backed either federal or state... is still government backed. I think it is an honourable thing to close unallocated accounts during this time for the reasons I've mentioned. But there are reasons for it and they are apparent.

    Happy to do some digging on this one...

    Oz

     
  24. Bron Suchecki

    Bron Suchecki VP Operations at Monetary Metals LLC

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    Oz Waver,


    "I know someone that claimed to have helped both the Perth Mint"

    I don't know who your contact is, but we do not use other people to source silver for us. If we have physical silver needs greater than what we refine from mines ourself, we either contact other refiners directly or source metal directly from bullion banks ex-London.

    "how much metal make up Certificate program and how much do you process that is held unpurchased against it? I would image that Perth Mint has futures contracts that it manages it"

    We are pretty clear about what our version of unallocated is on our website (http://www.perthmint.com.au/investment_invest_in_gold_storage_options.aspx): "The Mint purchases an ounce of precious metal from the spot market for every unallocated ounce it sells to clients. Accordingly every unallocated ounce is 100% backed."

    We absolutely do not have any "unpurchased" metal and we have never dealt in any futures market.

    "I think it is very clear why this is being discontinued. Too much demand, not enough metal, too much physical exposure"

    Because we always buy metal as soon as we sell it to a client, we have no exposure as you imply. If there was "not enough metal" then we would not be able to continue to offer Allocated and now Pool Allocated silver accounts.
     
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  25. Zed

    Zed Size doesn't count! Midas Member

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    You see how the logic runs Bron?

    Its self fulfilling pretzel logic of the highest order! You can't make a point here by simply pointing out the commercial realties and truths of the real market that supplies the coins and bars these people love so much. No matter how water tight your logic is you will not trump the fact that the rabid rantings of the like of the Hommel monster are the preferred 'truth'. Dealers, mints, bullion banks and brokers are all evil and totally corrupt... don't you see this? You of all people must know this! {sigh.... I've resorted to sarcasm, GIM does that to you} In GIM world nobody should be able to hedge, nobody should charge a premium over spot and nobody has any metal anyway (expect the stuff I bought!!!) We know these things because the pimps never lie to us!!!!!!

    [​IMG]

    I suggest you high tail it outta here before your professional ability to reason using real world logic becomes impaired. Nothing good can come from entering the forbidden zone :biggrin:
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2011
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  26. Oz Waver

    Oz Waver Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Link = Page Not Found

    I'll talk to my contact tomorrow.

    Hmm... not sure how you manage that... do you take delivery from the spot market for the certificate program?
    How much metal do you have in the program?
    Where is the metal for the program?


    Pooled accounts... sounds Nadlerish... hmmm... I wonder if he is involved in this? (as Perth Mint and he have a history)
     
  27. wil

    wil New Member

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    If its not buried in my garden it could be used against us somehow someway
     
  28. Zed

    Zed Size doesn't count! Midas Member

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  29. Silver Buck

    Silver Buck Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I bet you his contact is 'unallocated' and has no backing.
     
  30. Mr. Shiny

    Mr. Shiny Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Don't worry G³, you'll always be an agent provacateur to me.
     
  31. phideaux

    phideaux Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    A "virtual contact."
     
  32. Bron Suchecki

    Bron Suchecki VP Operations at Monetary Metals LLC

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    That is the definition of "spot", metal for settlement in 2 days. We run accounts in London with bullion banks and either do an immediate loco swap with miners for metal in Perth or ship it in from London or other refiners if need be. In the case of silver this is done in 20 tonne (640,000oz) lots as that is the capacity of sea containers.

    We don't reveal the split between our Certificate Program vs our direct Depository Program vs our ASX listed product for competitive reasons. All we reveal is the total value of metal stored with us, which is around AUD $3 billion at the moment.

    That is explained in the link I gave to our website as well as in the Understanding Unallocated post on our www.perthmintbullion.com corporate blog.

    Nadler did work for the Perth Mint some years ago for I think 6-12 months as a marketing consultant well after the Depository business had been set up (we have been offering storage since the late 70s, early 80s, with the Perth Mint Depository division being formally set up in 1994). His role if I remember correctly was to help us increase sales of Depository and physical coins in the US.
     
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  33. Bron Suchecki

    Bron Suchecki VP Operations at Monetary Metals LLC

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  34. phideaux

    phideaux Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    Welcome to GIM, Bron. :hello:

    Your direct knowledge of the situation is valuable and appreciated.

    Please feel free to look around and jump in to other discussion here beyond the Perth Mint.
     
  35. Northeastbullion

    Northeastbullion New Member

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    Bron, welcome to the board. Now Ed Steer has weighed in with his misinformed opinion:

    From http://www.caseyresearch.com/gsd/edition/gold-now-thats-track-record

    I read the other day that the Perth Mint is ending it's unallocated silver program [pool accounts] as of May 1st. These are accounts that have no physical silver backing them. All the 'silver owner' has is a piece of paper that says they own silver. Anyone already in, will be grandfathered...but they won't accept any new customers.

    There's probably a good fundamental reason why the Perth Mint [soon to be followed by every other mint/bullion dealer/bank that have pool-type accounts] will be closing their doors to new buyers...and that's because of the current liabilities that these companies face with the paper silver holders that they already have on their books.

    As a 'for instance'...let's say that the Perth Mint has 5 million ounces of paper silver sold in their pool/unallocated account under $10 the ounce. They got less than $50 million free dollars in exchange for little pieces of paper they gave the buyers...but they're all still sitting out there waiting to be redeemed at some point in time...and I would bet these are mostly unfunded liabilities to boot. When silver hits $50 or $100 the ounce...those 10 million ounces under $10...and a lot more above that price...are going to be heading for the exits. It's easy to see that in a very short period of time, the Perth Mint could be on the hook for $250 million to $500 million or more in payouts. Do they have that kind of cash laying around?

    Now repeat this scenario with every other company that has a pool or unallocated silver account set up for cheapskates who don't want to pay the storage fees for the real metal...and you could see big trouble in River City.

    This announcement by the Perth Mint should be a clarion call to get the heck out of paper silver asap...because the mint can already see the handwriting on the wall...and are moving to protect themselves. As you know, I've never been a fan of pool accounts, ever since silver analyst Ted Butler explained to me what they were. So do yourself a big favour. If you own one of these types of paper accounts...sell, and then buy the real deal...and take delivery while you still can.


    Unfortunately, there is far more misinformation than truth about silver on the internet. Thanks for the effort in setting things straight.
     
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  36. AgShaman

    AgShaman Seeker Seeker

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    Location:
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    I've heard BHP's Cannington Mine accounts for 6% of world silver mining supply....

    Since you are in AUS, as is the BHP mine....do you have any info on their supply stream? Have the floods in Australia affected them like some other mining operations?

    Just asking out of curiosity....perhaps Perth receives substantial product from the Cannington operation
     
  37. Gcubed

    Gcubed Banned

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    There are poster's here who even after being allowed to run their arm's though bin's(as in plural, LOTS of bin's) of Silver Kook's and Gold Roo's would flatly DENY that the mint held metal. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it! :wub:
     
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  38. Zed

    Zed Size doesn't count! Midas Member

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    Hey Bron,

    Give it time, the burly is in the water so the loony fish must be circling. Don't underestimate GIM, we can do world class loony! Although the prospect of talking to a real identifiable person may be intimidating them a little.

    LOL... but please forgive my attitude, I've had years of defending the Perth Mint around these parts. {Why else would a guy pack an H. Pimp?}

    ROTFLMAO! I think a few jaws just bounced off a few keyboards.

    I love it!
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2011
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  39. Gcubed

    Gcubed Banned

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    640,000 OUNCES?!?!? DAMN, dat be one thousand two hundred and eighty MONSTER BOXES!! Is there that much silver above ground??? Paging Ted Butler! PAGING TED BUTLER!!!
     
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  40. Bron Suchecki

    Bron Suchecki VP Operations at Monetary Metals LLC

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    Thanks for the heads up Northeastbullion, I will leave a response to Ed's post. I think he is just assuming that we operate like all the other dodgy unallocated programs which Ted Butler is right to call out. It would just be nice if he fact checked first, did he get proof for this statement "These are accounts that have no physical silver backing them"?

    I've got so many forums to watch (Kitco, Silverstackers, HotCopper, AussieStockForums and now GIM) so I might miss stuff. Please feel free to email me at perthmint.com.au, name bron.suchecki to let me know if there is a thread i've missed and you want me to respond.

    We ship in via sea containers because sea freight is the cheapest (takes about 2-3 months from London to Perth). You can actually volume wise fit in more than 20t in to a container but that is there maximum weight limit.
     
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