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Sailboat, The Ultimate Bug out Location

Discussion in 'Topical Discussions (In Depth)' started by chewy, Sep 30, 2012.



  1. chewy

    chewy Seeker Seeker

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    Lately, after moving to Florida where I see marina after marina full of sailboats, and knowing friends who have lived on sailboats for extended periods, I am starting to think that a sailboat may be the ultimate bug out location for so many reasons.

    1 - Safety. It is a lot easier to see another boat coming while out on the water than it is to see a person coming to your cabin in the woods.

    2 - unlimited food and water. With a small solar panel, a reverse osmosis water-maker, a fishing pole and a few vegetable plants on deck, you have unlimited healthy food and water. You can use the fish guts for fertilizer for the plants.

    3 - much less likely to get picked up by fema.

    4 - go 3 miles offshore and you are away from US rule.

    5 - it's the ultimate movable bug out location, even if **** never hits the fan, you can keep it docked nearby, and use it for recreation.
     
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  2. gringott

    gringott Midas Member Site Supporter Midas Member

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    Just wondering, have you ever been in the Army or the Navy? Generally when "in the field" in the Army or "at sea" I guess it would be in the Navy, somebody is "on duty" or pulling security duty all the time - 24 / 7. During the day on a small sailboat you may be fine, you can work and look around you, so you would have some early warning. Remember, your senario is that you are on the open ocean - there is no "hiding". What about in the evenings and at night? Who would be on watch? if there are two of you, that's half the night each. In the army, we would sometimes do it at squad level, an hour apiece, and they still fell asleep during that hour when the weather was bad [cold] or they were very tired from lack of sleep, and the concequences were severe - a human can take only so much sleep deprevation, and every person has their own limit. So security would be one problem. A faster boat would be another. If someone comes after you with more men and a faster boat, what are you going to do about it? You may have early warning, but do you out gun them? Have more men? Range of weapons? These are some of the historic problems of the sea.

    Think about the Caribean, there is a pirate problem today and always has been - pleasure sailors get taken all the time, easy pickings.
    They murder mom and pop tourist, or grandma and grandpa retiree, and steal the fancy gear and cash. Gets blamed on "drug trafficers".

    I have thought about boats too, but not on the ocean - I was thinking a small low profile boat that you could camo along the overgrown shore in a rural area, in my case along the Ohio. Then you could move it at night if your current area became "hot". I don't know how you can hide on the open sea.
     
  3. chewy

    chewy Seeker Seeker

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    I see some of your points but I'm not sure that I would compare it to wartime experience. If things do get bad, and the grocery stores empty and there are roving bands of people going across the land and robbing and killing, I would rather be at sea, where there's a hell of a lot less people and I know I have guaranteed food and water. Plus, I would sail down the the Costa Rica area, or somewhere else more safe and stable than the US.

    Sure, you might get attacked, but that goes true for any place you decide to bug out to. It's not like I am just planning on dropping the anchor a mile off the coast and waiting for someone to try to find me, I will be planning the next place to go, but at least I will be fed and mobile.

    Plus, whatever the government situation is when SHTF, I am sure they are going to be too busy with stuff going on land, in the cities, to worry about rounding up the 1/100,000 that took to sea on boats.
     
  4. Fiat Metaler

    Fiat Metaler Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    its a little harder than you make out, and you are not going to cultivate any plants on your deck, lol.

    get a subscription to Cruising World magazine.

    you can single hand some cruising sailboats but it is far from easy. even a couple pulling alternating watches is a challenge. risks include collisions with freighters, pirates, government interdiction, weather, petty theft.

    the mobility is definitely real, and while you provide yourself some self reliance in other ways you become far more interconnected and dependant on the outside world for things such as food, fuel, and supplies (sail boat parts, etc.)

    that said, you can cruise to parts of the world that the PTB have little interest in - south pacific for example. of course, things can change on a dime, and so for example during WWII Europe and the South Pacific were not particularly good places to be, but South America was probably not too bad.
     
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  5. searcher

    searcher Site Supporter Site Supporter Mother Lode

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  6. gringott

    gringott Midas Member Site Supporter Midas Member

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    I was in Tahiti back in 1980. I was drinking at a bar on a small sailboat in the harbor, and I remarked to the bartender about all the small sailboats in the harbor, there were hundreds. [These were small to my eye - I'm not a sailor]. He stated they were from people who had a dream to live on a sailboat and sail 'around the world', when they made the harbor at Papeete they got on a jet airliner and hauled a$$ home. Things may be different now with electronic gear like gps etc, however, I think a lot of people have trouble with the real deal of 24 hour manning the wheel / watch etc, that was the point I was trying to make. I would be worried about sailing the coast off Central America now, never mind if TSHTF. Better be well armed, if they let you. Compared to survival on land if TSHTF? I don't know, too many what ifs.
     
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  7. Bigfoot

    Bigfoot Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Hmm....maybe. :cool: Can you swim? Have you spent time out on the ocean yet? Can the other people you are bringing swim? If not, make sure you and they learn to. And if you're not familiar with coastal and sea navigation, then that's another thing you'll need to master.

    How about at night? How about in the fog? How about in rough seas?

    IF your water-maker doesn't fail. IF your solar panel doesn't break. IF the wiring doesn't corrode. Remember now, on the sea all this gear is being shaken 24/7 and is receiving salt spray.

    You'll need more than one.

    If somehow they don't wash away when a wave comes over the bow, then they better be salt spray resistant.

    Ah, assuming everything goes exactly as planned. But, weather and equipment, and fish don't follow people plans. I'd take some extra water along, and some vitamins, and some extra food.


    True, better to die at sea than in a Fema camp.

    The US contiguous zone now goes out to 24 nautical miles.

    LOL!!! Man, where to start... Okay, I'll mention a couple things I have personally experienced.

    Running a ground.
    Capsizing.
    Engine failure.
    Leaks of all types.
    Bilge pump failure.
    Mast cracking.
    Lightning storms.
    Waterspout dodging.
    Hitting floating debris.
    Broken radio antenna. (Oh, bring duct tape! )
    Sea trash getting tangled in the prop.
    Corrosion, massive amounts of corrosion.
    Avoiding being run over by larger vessels.


    Tons of other things to consider, here are just a few...

    -Firearms
    -Passports
    -Back up communications
    -Back up navigation gear
    -First Aid
    -Medicine
    -Money

    Make sure you have quick access to your emergency floatation stuff, so that it doesn't go down with the ship. Personally, I'd also take a thick wetsuit or drysuit to boost the amount of time you can float before hypothermia sets in. You lose body heat 25-30 times faster in water than in air; it's a big enough problem in tropical water survival, and it's absolutely hazardous in cold water.


    Yes, IF you're super careful. At the very least, you'll be in for some adventures.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2012
  8. searcher

    searcher Site Supporter Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    Thought this was kinda neat. Liveaboard Life:

    [video=youtube_share;21e0fp48tqk]http://youtu.be/21e0fp48tqk[/video]
     
  9. Ishkabibble

    Ishkabibble Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Her life aboard ship is much more challenging than one in the outback, even with good fuel and parts availability. I think back to my RV, which can go almost anywhere, and which is much less visible out back than at sea. I face similar challenges to her, though not to as significant a degree.

    If you seriously intend to bug out in a sailboat, visit the archives at ClubOrlov.com. The gentleman lived through the soviet collapse. He's spent years preparing for the collapse he sees coming in the US, and he's chosen a sailboat as his means. He is both knowledgeable and experienced; I have been following his posts since 2009. He ruggedized his sailboat and you'll have to do the same. They aren't made for constant operation without constant repair.

    Edit: Here's one of Orlov's posts about his sailing experience. http://cluborlov.blogspot.ca/2011/03/small-boat-ocean-voyaging-for-accident.html
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2012
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  10. keef

    keef Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Why be at the mercy of the waves when you can be safe/secure under water?

    sub.jpg

    "Hey, Buddy! Which way to Cuba???"
     
  11. keef

    keef Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Where's HATTER when you need him? Call that bar and see how many boats are currently abandoned in the harbor. Might be worth a road trip.
     
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  12. Fiat Metaler

    Fiat Metaler Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    if you want to read some interesting stuff, read the blog about the Barraveigh. Dude in his late 30's walks away from the U.S. bought a used 48' foot yacht, probably cost in the ballpark of $150,000. dream was to sail around the world. had a few buddies join him for the first year or so, and wrote a few articles for Escape From American online mag. Had some intersting adventures. just around the time he loses his last shipmate, he meets a blonde from London in Costa Rica and they fall in love. long story short they sail around the world together. you have to read the blog to find out what happens next - i won't ruin it - but if you are interested in sailing its quite interesting and a true story.

    i met a guy who actually did this. He was probably late 50s, i met him on a tourist boat in paris 2 years ago. told me shortly after he married his wife, they set sail around the world from California. 13 years later they had the boat drydocked in Tunisia for winter repairs and painting; they had spent almost their entire married life at sea. They had just flown from tunisia to paris to run a few errands etc. a few months ago i came across his boat for sale online. turns out his wife had had breast cancer and had died after i met them in paris; he had too many memories in the boat and was selling it. so life goes on while at sea.

    a lot of people never consider sailing as an option, becuase they are too tied to conventionality. if you are on this forum, you are unconventional. they also think it is too expensive or too hard. well, a good cruising boat costs as much as your house, but you have fewer bills like takes or utilities, and you don't need your house anymore. cruising is not easy, but its a skill that can be mastered in a few months if you have half a brain. there are folks in their 60s and 70s crusising around the world in very modest yachts.
     
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  13. searcher

    searcher Site Supporter Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    Interview with a liveaboard - part 1 of 3

    [video=youtube_share;17LcgUqq3Rc]http://youtu.be/17LcgUqq3Rc[/video]
     
  14. searcher

    searcher Site Supporter Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    Last edited: Sep 30, 2012
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  15. northfarmer

    northfarmer Seeker Seeker

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    What ever happened to that super duper ship that was going to be built and sail around the world continuously with like thousands of people,its own airport etc etc?
     
  16. keef

    keef Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Last I heard it ran into some Chinese Fishing Trawlers off the coast of those Daywou Islands and was melted down to make imported woks. :eek: a-sooo
     
  17. northfarmer

    northfarmer Seeker Seeker

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  18. northfarmer

    northfarmer Seeker Seeker

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  19. Fiat Metaler

    Fiat Metaler Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    read a casey research article that said a convereted cruise ship is going to launch in a year off the coast of silcon valley as a sort of freedom p.t. community.
     
  20. Unca Walt

    Unca Walt Midas Member Midas Member

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    A tip o' the hat to :bowdown: bigfoot --

    I completely understand the romantic theme of posh sailboat living... unfortunately, that concept is all Hollywood.

    The sea was really calm one night. (Titanic) Probably has been just as calm perhaps twice more since then

    My pore alabaster body underwent the (*joy*):afraid: :hmmmm2::afraid: of having to spend a week on a rag-hauler.

    Being on a sailboat is like being in prison with a chance of drowning. Oh. And the guards beat you incessantly; sometimes really roughly.

    The THIRD DAY INNA ROW that the fargin bow was submerged half the time, and up in the air half the time, those prison guards working every minute of the 24-day on me...

    You kin bug out thataway, but I will come along witcha ONLY as far as the first barely habitable island. :s9::s1:
     
  21. Goldhedge

    Goldhedge Modal Operator/Moderator Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    Heck... just join the NAVY and get assigned to the USS Enterprise ...

    [​IMG]
     
  22. keef

    keef Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    The day the Chinese government commisions, 'Freedom Ships' is the day I hock my chinese toaster for a real product made in the usa.



    They might build 'Freedom Gulags' so their slaves can **** in the ocean while they sew Nike tennis shoes 12 hours a day.
     
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  23. keef

    keef Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Gilligan's Island. The bugout destination of choice:

    gilligan.jpg


    (I can't see too good without me readers, is that Gilligan's thumb that's stickin up?)
     
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  24. DodgebyDave

    DodgebyDave Metal Messiah Midas Member

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    I was a fan of these guys



    Own the Marina. If you need one there will be many boats to chose from.
     
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  25. chewy

    chewy Seeker Seeker

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    Thanks for posting the videos, much appreciated.

    I have decided, I would much rather live an adventure on a sailboat, and deal with the potential dangers than sit in a cabin in the woods staring at a wall of #10 mountain house cans worrying about every noise i hear or shadow i see.

    Sure, I might get boarded by pirates, sure I might die, but these things can happen in a cabin in the woods too.

    My goal is to start saving for a good sailboat, start taking classes, and learn everything there is to learn about living on a sailboat.

    I was acquainted with a guy in Hawaii, who had lived on his sailboat for 7 years and he was docking in Hawaii for a couple months and then going back out for a couple more years, stopping at interesting places along the way. It just seems like more of a life than dealing with SHTF on land.

    It might not be for everyone, but I am determined to learn more. Seems there are lots of people out there who get rid of the mortgage and the car payments and buy a sailboat and a couple bicycles....
     
  26. searcher

    searcher Site Supporter Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    Youtube has tons of stuff on sailing, sailboats, etc. You can also do a google search on "free online navigation courses." Might be suprised at what comes up.
    Another good site is:
    http://oldsaltblog.com

    Good luck.
     
  27. searcher

    searcher Site Supporter Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    You can also wear neat uniforms

    108486_admiral_bi&#103.jpg
     
  28. Strawboss

    Strawboss Intergalactic Silver Guru Gold Chaser

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    If you do in fact go this route - I would strongly suggest a .50 caliber with a mount and lots and lots of ammo.
     
  29. keef

    keef Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    You just know a couple of mid-evel homosexuals designed that outfit.
     
  30. searcher

    searcher Site Supporter Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    ROTFLMAO........................:beerglass:
     
  31. Ishkabibble

    Ishkabibble Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    In that case, start by finding a local sailing club. See if you can find a member willing to take you on a 3-4 day expedition. Live the adventure and let experience provide your certainty. I know many people who invested more than 100 grand into a motorhome, only to wish they'd bought something different - a 5th wheel or other model. Keep that in mind when you pick the boat. Take it on an extended journey, or rent a similar one and try that. Once you have dropped your wad, it's hard to get it back. No regrets dude... and all the best!
     
  32. orovicino

    orovicino Seeker Seeker

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  33. chewy

    chewy Seeker Seeker

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    Last edited: Sep 30, 2012
  34. mtnman

    mtnman Gold Member Site Supporter Gold Chaser

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    Something to think about. If TSHTF then pretty much the whole world is ****ed. Where would you land? Islands would be starving and you'd be dinner. Mainlands would not be any better and you'd be an outsider.
     
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  35. Someone_else

    Someone_else Silver Member Silver Miner

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    I have never owned a boat, but my past includes two airplanes. Here are two very popular sayings:
    "Your two happiest days will be the day you buy it and the day you sell it."
    "Three F's. If it Floats, Flies, or Fornicates -- Rent!"
     
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  36. Fiat Metaler

    Fiat Metaler Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    that is a nice little video, and i salute that young lady for going out there and doing it.

    on the other hand, that is a tiny boat, and not really a bluewater vessel. you are not going to go around that world in that one unless you are an expert. if you looked close at the map, they sailed from miami to the bahamas, which you can do in a speed boat in a couple of hours. a large sail boat might average close to 8 knots; hers probably half that.

    she's having a small temporary adventure; she is close to shore, etc. its not exactly a liveaboard situation.
     
  37. minimus

    minimus Banned

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  38. Al K. Hall

    Al K. Hall Seeker Seeker

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    Floating Target.
     

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  39. Unclad Lad

    Unclad Lad Rhodium Imam Gold Chaser

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  40. vancouver25

    vancouver25 New Member

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    Actually, it's a Nor'sea 27 designed by Lyle Hess as a trailerable "bluewater" cruiser and is one of the more capable small boats you could choose for such an undertaking. Many Nor'seas have circumnavigated and done ocean crossings (http://bluewaterboats.org/norsea-27/).

    Daphne (the boat) was actually sold and the girl in the video has a new "mate" and they are shopping for a bigger boat (http://sailingsimplicity.com/shopping-for-boats/) for two. They are, what most would consider, "experts." It's interesting, in the context of the feasibility of a full-time live aboard, to follow their thinking process.

    Personally, my thinking is a small boat might be a viable bug-out vehicle to a safer terrestrial location, assuming there is such a destination (perhaps friends or family in another country?). But long-term survivability at sea, without help from others, is unrealistic. Ocean passages, however heroic, always end with a landing in port and some extensive re-provisioning (food, water or parts for water maker--although rainwater can be collected depending on location/season, supplies, equipment--it wears out fast at sea, etc.) Even the guy that just non-stop circumnavigated the Americas (http://www.solotheamericas.org/) had to be re-provisioned 3 times for equipment failure and literally limped into port after 27,000+ miles and 309 days at sea--a record-setting (and incredible) feat very few of us mortals could even imagine.
     
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