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Will The Military Fire On US Citizens Or Not?

Discussion in 'Topical Discussions (In Depth)' started by searcher, Jan 23, 2013.



  1. searcher

    searcher Site Supporter Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    No clue if this is true or not..........


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    Shock Claim: “The New Litmus Test Of Leadership In The Military Is If They Will Fire On US Citizens Or Not”

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    [TD]Mac Slavo
    January 22nd, 2013
    SHTFplan.com


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    Had the following comments been made on a fringe corner of the internet most would dismiss them as outright conjecture. However, what you are about to read comes from one of the world’s foremost philanthropists, Jim Garrow, who has spent tens of millions of dollars of his own money to help over 35,000 Chinese baby girls from near certain death under China’s one-child-per-couple policy.
    He was one of the 206 nominees for the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize, which was ultimately awarded to President Barack Obama.
    Garrow, who has friends in high places, including the U.S. military, made a startling claim on his Facebook page Sunday, which if true, should leave no doubt about why the Obama administration is moving full force to seize firearms from law abiding Americans and why the US government’s law enforcement and security assets have been making preparations for years in anticipation of social breakdown and widespread civil unrest.
    According to Garrow, the Obama administration has been rapidly retiring or re-assigning US military leaders based on a new ‘litmus test’ of their loyalty:
    I have just been informed by a former senior military leader that Obama is using a new “litmus test” in determining who will stay and who must go in his military leaders. Get ready to explode folks.
    “The new litmus test of leadership in the military is if they will fire on US citizens or not”.
    Those who will not are being removed.
    Dr. Jim Garrow – January 21, 2013
    [​IMG]
    When pressed for the source of his information and asked why the senior military leader would not reveal his name, Garrow responded by saying, “I believe that the gentleman has done what he should and allowed all of us to sound the alarm.”He revealed only that the man who shared this information, “is one of America’s foremost military heroes,” suggesting the source is a public figure.Paul Joseph Watson of Infowars notes that this new ‘litmus test’ comes at a time when millions of Americans are already suspicious of the government’s motives behind a number of actions, including the most recent push to disarm the population:​
    Garrow’s claim is even more explosive given that the country is in the throes of a national debate about gun control, with gun rights advocates keen to insist that the founders put the second amendment in the Constitution primarily as a defense against government tyranny.It also follows reports on Sunday that General James Mattis, head of the United States Central Command, “is being told to vacate his office several months earlier than planned.”​
    Would Jim Garrow put his reputation on the line by spreading a rumor or simply make this up to garner attention?Or, is it possible that he does in fact have a high level military source who is privy to this information – someone who has himself been removed from his position because he didn’t pass the litmus test?Should the Obama administration take Executive Actions against Americans in the event of a scenario where gun confiscation becomes reality or a collapse of our economic system leads to a complete meltdown of law and order on the streets of America, the administration would likely deploy military assets under martial law to subdue any uprisings or riots.The only way this could be done is if military leaders are willing to command their subordinates to deploy against the American people and fire on them if necessary.If Garrow’s claims are true, one can only shudder at the thought of what the end-game may be.

    [h=3]Leave a Reply - Shock Claim: “The New Litmus Test Of Leadership ...[/h]
    www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/shock-claim-the-new...21 hours ago
    The new litmus test of leadership in the military is if they will fire on US citizens or not”. Those who will not are being removed.

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  2. SilverCity

    SilverCity Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    What will happen when those soldiers who do so have to go back to their hometowns and face their families, friends, and neighbors?

    SC
     
  3. honu5050

    honu5050 Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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  4. Old Flatus

    Old Flatus New Member

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    In response to the OP's original question. Will the military fire on US citizens or not?

    Letting history be the guide, I believe they will.

    Kent State University.
    Waco.
    Ruby Ridge.

    Maybe a different question needs to be asked in light of the ever increasing move toward tyranny we are now witnessing.

    "Will the American Citizens fire on the military?"


    MOLON LABE
     
  5. Rusty Shackelford

    Rusty Shackelford Midas Member Midas Member

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    Some military won't, but the majority will. Straight from my brother (Iraq vet), most in the military have no other options in life and will not bite the hand that feeds them. I have no reason to doubt his Experience and observations he made while in the army.
     
  6. Mr Paradise

    Mr Paradise Midas Member Midas Member

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    Members of the military will fire on you and your family if it keeps their families fed.
     
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  7. iconoclast

    iconoclast Seeker Seeker

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    If they wont the drone's will.
     
  8. Hivemindgammahydra7

    Hivemindgammahydra7 Silver Member Silver Miner

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    It would split the military, I believe. Some might, others won't, and you might see some units fight each other.
     
  9. Carl

    Carl Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    B
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2015
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  10. Tinbox

    Tinbox YOU GET NOTHING! YOU LOSE, GOOD DAY SIR! Site Supporter Gold Chaser

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    they'll be called heroes for putting down an uprising composed of terrorists/militia.

    The majority isn't going to rise up against the government, the few who do will be branded terrorists or part of a kooky militia.
     
  11. Joseph

    Joseph Gold Member Site Supporter Gold Chaser

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    YES



    This is an excerpt from Dollar Vigilante - the last time I posted something like this, a few gimmers inferred that I was some kind of a defeatist and should give all my guns (if I had any) to them, so they could put on their Rambo outfits and storm the castle without me = nothing could be further from the truth. I'm posting this because there is substance to it, and ignoring it is, in my opinion, foolish.

    Don't Worry About Your Guns: There Is Nothing Left To Defend

    [Editor’s Note: The following is by TDV legal correspondent, Jim Karger]

    "And, to you tough-talking Neo-Cons with your AR-15 rifles and a few thousand rounds of ammo, here is reality: they will take your guns, and no, all your Second Amendment bluster aside, you are not going to do anything about it. You are not going to take on a platoon of Marines with state of the art automatic weapons and the best body armor you cannot buy protected by armed personnel carriers and attack helicopters unless you choose to die that day -- for nothing.

    You will either be in the country or out, and if you are in, you will stay in and you will comply.

    That is your choice . . . for the moment."

    http://dollarvigilante.com/blog/2013/1/22/dont-worry-about-your-guns-there-is-nothing-left-to-defend.html

    I remember a famous psych experiment -

    In 1963 psychologist Stanley Milgram set out to test people's propensity to obey authority when ordered to hurt another person. With few exceptions, they ALL complied.

    http://brainz.org/ten-most-revealing-psych-experiments/

    So, yes. I believe we will be attacked by our own troops, police, and TSA when they become armed by virtue of EO. I also believe there will be a lot of military, ex-military, police, and others who will stand up.

    I believe it will be a slow process. The sheep and cattle will mill around like they do on farms just before a big storm. But they will do nothing. I will take advantage of whatever time is left to quietly prep and take steps to protect my family as best I can.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2013
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  12. mtnman

    mtnman Gold Member Site Supporter Gold Chaser

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    If it gets to the point that the military is shooting civilians then all bets are off. People will hunt down military, police and politicians families and kill them all, women and children included. That will serve to demoralize the military. They see their families slaughtered, they'll likely desert to protect their families. Why do people think that when TSHTF that people will just sit and wait for what ever the .gov has planned? Read the history of the Russian Revolution...
     
  13. SilverCity

    SilverCity Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    ^^^this is what I believe would happen

    It's called CIVIL WAR

    SC
     
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  14. Ebie

    Ebie Midas Member Midas Member

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    Yes.
    Why would they not do so?
    Flag, president, supreme court, police, elected officials all them to do it.
     
  15. TomD

    TomD It blowed up, y'all Gold Chaser

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    Say it's a given that the Dems can pick the 2-3 & 4 stars. I believe that most of the 18-20 year old troups will do what they are told. The real battle for the heart of the military will be at the "middle management" level, the E5 and above sergeants and the O3 Captains (or Lt in Navy) and above up to the Colonel level after which the positions and promotions become more and more political. I really think that at these middle levels, they are largely people like ourselves, and will break predominantly against a political slaughter of Americans.

    And nothing is gonna happen in the military without the support of these people, no communications, logistics, transport, ammo, weapons. And they are the ones giving the orders to the previously mentioned 18-20 year old troups.
     
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  16. TomD

    TomD It blowed up, y'all Gold Chaser

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    Do you or have you ever known any military or ex-military who made it past E5? I have and in sufficient numbers, and including close family members, to get a feel for their attitudes.
     
  17. BarnacleBob

    BarnacleBob GIM Founding Member & Mod. Founding Member Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    The military is run by NCO's.... if such a hypothetical scenario were to arise, the final "go ahead" would be communicated by them... it will be this group that either obeys or disobeys the orders... the military today operates in small groups where every man is responsible for the other... when a member is injured or killed, every member in the squad\platoon takes it very personally. Maybe some would not at first fire on Americans, but let a couple of their fellow soldiers be injured or killed by civilians, and IMO they would commence in short order.... The reality is that under a martial law scheme enforced by the military & paramilitary forces, the big major cities will be hammered & secured first in a show of central authority & might.... gasoline, food, electricity, medical supplies & services, etc. would be rationed to outlying areas such as small towns & cities to insure obediance & compliance to the new policies.... informants would be well compensated... and there would be many if the above services were absent due to noncompliance... At this point, I do not foresee these hypothetical events transpiring... me thinks its mostly fear mongering by both the political left & right... the body politics overall approval ratings are in the toilet, they need HEROS on both sides of the aisle to regain at least some credibility b4 the next socioeconomic disaster occurs... the gun control issue is the script! The intended consequence in this unfolding drama will be played by the Judiciary which is about to be thoroughly tested on jural interpretations & prudence.... This of course deflects attention from the REAL problems of the Executive & Legislative branches... Judicially the subject-matter could take 2 - 3 yrs to receive full & complete judicial process & review... In the meantime, the judicial process period would provide HOPIUM for both the left & the right... the subject matter (gun control) is very emotional to both sides of the issue, so the issue is the perfect cover to distract the populace from the most important & pressing problems we face as a nation today.... JMO
     
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  18. Malus

    Malus Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    In a world gone mad....
    Who needs the military when you have contractors.............
     
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  19. anywoundedduck

    anywoundedduck Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    The fact is, the civilian army, militia, (which shall not be infringed upon) whatever you want to call it is a hundered times bigger than any other standing army, including US Army. This "milita" is the reason the Japanese would not invade the US after Pearl Harbor. This civilian militia is the brain child of our forefathers, to keep a despotic US government from taking away our inalienable rights. Many left wing politicos are busy being despotic and trying to take our rights away and to disarm us. We the people cannot allow it. No matter which party is in power. This is simple sh!t once you understand it.

    And yes, many members of the military will revolt, if given orders to fire on American Civilians. And yes, we will fire back, if fired upon.
     
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  20. SilverCity

    SilverCity Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    A little off the main topic...

    What if .gov anticipates US military reluctance and just decides to bring in NATO or UN troops to supplement takeover forces with orders to execute any non-compliant US soldiers?

    Hmmm. The shyte gets deep real fast...

    SC
     
  21. EO 11110

    EO 11110 He Hate Me Mother Lode

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Chicago_riots

    On April 4, 1968, in Chicago, violence sparked in the black ghetto on the West side, and gradually expanded to consume a 28-block stretch of West Madison Street, with most damage occurring on Roosevelt Road.[4] Lawndale and Austin neighborhoods on the West Side and the Woodlawn neighborhood on the South Side experienced the majority of the destruction and chaos.[5] The rioters broke windows, looted stores, and set buildings (both abandoned and occupied) on fire. Firefighters quickly flooded the neighborhood, and Chicago's off-duty firefighters were told to report for duty. There were 36 major fires reported between 4:00 pm and 10:00 pm alone. The next day, Mayor Richard J. Daley imposed a curfew on anyone under the age of 21, closed the streets to automobile traffic, and halted the sale of guns or ammunition.[4]

    Approximately 10,500 police were sent in, and by April 6, more than 6,700 Illinois National Guard troops arrived in Chicago. President Lyndon B. Johnson also sent 5,000 U.S. army troops into the city. The General in charge declared that no one was allowed to have gatherings in the riot areas, and he authorized the use of tear gas. Mayor Richard J. Daley gave police the authority "to shoot to kill any arsonist or anyone with a Molotov cocktail in his hand ... and ... to shoot to maim or cripple anyone looting any stores in our city."

    The 1968 Chicago riots were sparked by the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. He was shot while standing on the balcony of his room at the Lorraine Motel in Memphis, Tennessee, on April 4, 1968 at 6:01 pm. Violence and chaos followed, with blacks flooding out onto the streets of major cities. Soon riots began, primarily in black urban areas.[1] Over 100 major U.S. cities experienced disturbances, resulting in roughly $50 million in damages.

    Rioters and police in Chicago were particularly aggressive, and the damage was particularly severe.[2] Of the 39 people who died, 34 were black. Chicago, Illinois, Baltimore, Maryland and Washington, D.C. experienced some of the worst riots. In Chicago, more than 48 hours of rioting left 11 Chicago citizens dead, 48 wounded by police gunfire, 90 policemen injured, and 2,150 people arrested.[3] Two miles of Lawndale on West Madison Street were left in a state of rubble.
     
  22. Malus

    Malus Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    In a world gone mad....

    Drones hold no allegiance except to the Playstation @sshats flying them. Its easy to manipulate young/impressionable/disenfranchised youth. Skynet anyone?
     
  23. oldgaranddad

    oldgaranddad Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I think the question should be: "If the orders for the military is given to fire on US Citizens will fratricide ensue?"
     
  24. anywoundedduck

    anywoundedduck Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Many people are forgetting, including our stupid politicos, that the Executive Branch, the Congress, nor the Judicial Branch can in anyway infringe upon our 2nd Amendment rights, or, for that matter, change any Amendment. Only the States, by a 2/3rds majority can do that. That means that only "we the people" can do that. And since it has worked pretty well so far, I doubt if "we the people" are going to change it. In my opinion, all we are hearing is noise out of this idiotic Administration. NOISE. (and making me pay double for a new shotgun:realmad:)
     
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  25. Ebie

    Ebie Midas Member Midas Member

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    Go check on the situation in NYC and then get back to us....
     
  26. Ebie

    Ebie Midas Member Midas Member

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    I wonder if they can militirize the US Marshalls, or, develop special loyal military units willing to do the job.
     
  27. BarnacleBob

    BarnacleBob GIM Founding Member & Mod. Founding Member Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    "Over 100 major U.S. cities experienced disturbances*****." There ya go... the top 100 that would be occupied in a martial law policy! See: http://www.city-data.com/top1.html
     
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  28. Aurumag

    Aurumag Midas Member Midas Member

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    Rusty said the same thing, but with personal qualifications.

    I also have some contacts within the U.S. military who have echoed and confirmed these same "litmus tests" for over two years now.

    Barry's handlers are the ones calling the shots, but it appears to be valid intel that those vocally loyal to individual rights, from E-1 all the way to O-10, are being branded and terminated from their military positions.

    On the bright side, as civilians (privates), many of them are quietly creating and joining local militias, in accordance with BoR Article 2.

    IMO, Barry's handlers want a CONUS Civil War in order to distract the world from the 100 year economic system which some refer to as The Creature. I prefer to call it The Beast.

    Thus leaving us with the question:

    If we act quickly enough, can we rely on at least part of the U.S. military machine to assist We the People in arresting, incarcerating, trying, prosecuting and if necessary executing, all within the scope of Common Law, Barry's handlers?

    Remember, Prince Barry is merely the Image of the Beast.

    We have a good starting point with our GIM2 Tar and Feathers thread.
     
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  29. Aurumag

    Aurumag Midas Member Midas Member

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    Now you're thinking on the right track, and back to these litmus tests, which are a form of applicant screening, most of which is conducted PRIOR to enlistment/commission:

    Much of the U.S. military TODAY, already consists of members, like POTUS, who have no allegiance to the Bill of Rights, so whether they came from a foreign nation or not, their mindset and allegiance has already been tested.

    The Bill of Rights is therefore a foreign document to those "passing the test."

    Not one of them was drafted, but many of them could obtain no other employment outside of military service. They are already doing it for the FRNs!

    The majority will do WHATEVER IT TAKES to remain in good graces with the federal family, and their families will be protected within U.S. bases.

    I don't think this is a distraction.

    Civil War is being planned by those who brought you Benghazi, Fast and Furious, 200 Trillion eFRNs in unfunded liabilities (minimum), The Mortgage Bubble, invisible WMDs, WTC Bldg. 7, missile tech for China, OKC etc...

    Need I mention Sandy Hook?

    This has all been humanly engineered, and barring Divine Intervention, Civil War is inevitable.
     
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  30. Ebie

    Ebie Midas Member Midas Member

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    Selected trained units will be willing to do the job.
     
  31. TheBigWookie

    TheBigWookie Seeker Seeker

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    What Difference does it make !?!?!?!?
    - Hillary Clinton
     
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  32. SilverCity

    SilverCity Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Probably Chinese, come to think of it. They will be here to lay claim to their rightful assets after all those U.S. Treasury bonds go toes up.

    SC
     
  33. Alric

    Alric Midas Member Midas Member

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    I think that the troops probably would fire on US citizens but then come to regret it later. So if it is done quickly, they will follow orders, but in a long term situation like martial law or something they will stop following orders.

    That said, I am not sure I really believe this story. Sounds like the sort of thing people make up just to get people upset. Doesn't help that the source is some unknown "hero". Hero is just a buzz word people throw around because it makes it sound more credible. Though he isn't just a hero, he is one of the 'foremost' heroes. Sounds suspicious to me.
     
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  34. RichG

    RichG GIM Radio Host Midas Member

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    For those that believe that American soldiers will not fire upon American people let me offer this for your consideration ( Plus... don't forget about Kent State). These are WWW1 unemployed Vets marching on Washington. Their 'Brother's in Arms' turn on them, rout them out, and burn their camps to the ground. Granted there where no shots fired, but that last detail could have been breached by a number of events. It is my opinion that when push comes to shove, the majority of soldiers will do as they are told. They will not bite the hand that feeds them and their families.... they have a job...they have a purpose.

    It is easy to find Military's in the world today doing the most atrocious things to their own people. We cannot escape Human Nature, we are not immune. What has protected us in the past, form this type Government is the very document that is now being dismantled. Our Constitution. With every right that we allow to be striped from us, we open the door wider for a Domestic Military backed by a Tyrannical Government to assume supreme power over us. Look closely at what has happened over the years to our own local police forces as they become militarized, readied to be absorbed into the military. They are now being trained and equipped as military units instead of local 'peace officers'. We are not treated as equals or superiors in our dealings with local law enforcement, TSA, or any branch of the Government anymore, but as threats who's existence is of little consequence.

    The other thing that I took away from this video is that those that are depending on a Government promise are the most vulnerable. I am sure that some where in the crowd on a lark, but most where there out of desperation. These people 'served' their Country and now felt that they deserved Gratitude in return. Many I am sure had been wounded also. Instead of a thank you, they had their possessions burned and destroyed. Did the Government care that for some, those scant things may have been all they had left? The Government has no conscious. It will kill 'you' to expand it's power, to maintain control, and keep you from what is rightfully yours when they renege one their promises.

    As seen here... if you are dependent upon them, then you have allowed them the opportunity to destroy everything you have, and burn you to the ground. They will do it.... without a second thought.

    Fight for every right you have, and distance yourself from any Government dependance.
    :smokin:
     
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  35. Unca Walt

    Unca Walt Midas Member Midas Member

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    Agreed.

    Yes, there will be many who will fire on their own countrymen. Look at Kent State... the dead were not even armed and those in uniform opened up.

    To look at reality -- actual events -- is to clear one's mind. How can the question even be asked when you already HAVE THE DATA to supply the answer?

    But there is a difference: Yes, they will fire. And now, for the first time since the Whiskey Rebellion, the populace WILL fire back. And then the populace will begin active hunting of uniforms.

    The picture of the US Constitution with "VOID WHERE PROHIBITED" stamped on it has GOT to be changed from reality to history.
     
  36. Ebie

    Ebie Midas Member Midas Member

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    Wikipedia says that two marchers were shot to death--but perhaps not on the main day.
     
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  37. Ebie

    Ebie Midas Member Midas Member

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    Of course they are not supposed to due to the posse comitatus rule ... I know...
     
  38. Oldmansmith

    Oldmansmith Midas Member Midas Member

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    And thank God the Feds follow the 9th and 10th amendments or what would the country look like now?
     
  39. Garyw

    Garyw Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Any of you that served in the military have given this oath. Whether you believe in it or said what you mean will decide the outcome of any uprising. There are many more veterans than active military and they take the oath they took seriously.

    Here is a copy:

    The wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for commissioned officers are as follows:

    "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

    "I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)prising. There are many more veterans than active military and they take the oath they took seriously. Here is a copy:
     
  40. Garyw

    Garyw Silver Member Silver Miner

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    WORLD'S LARGEST ARMY*




    I copied and pasted this story from another forum I frequent but I thought it was interesting. I don't agree with the OP that Japan could have hit the west coast as well but Much of this post is true. Obama needs to understand that. We will not go down without a fight.*








    True Story.*
    Here's an interesting side bar. After the Japanese ravaged the US Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor Dec 7, 1941, they could have sent their troop ships And carriers directly into California to finish what they started. The prediction from our Chief of Staff was that we wouldn't be able to stop them until they reached the Mississippi River. Remember, we had a 2 million man army and the bulk of our Navy ... fighting the Nazis in Europe; So, why did they not invade?












    After the war, this question was poised to what was left of the Japanese Army's General Staff and their Naval
    Admiralty. In response, their consistent Answer was astounding:*
    They knew that almost every home in America had guns and that the Americans knew how to use them .......*
    The world's largest army... America 's hunters! I had never thought about this....








    A blogger added up the deer license sales in just a handful of states and arrived at a striking conclusion:*
    There were over 600,000 hunters this season in the state of Wisconsin .*








    Over the last several months, Wisconsin 's hunters became the eighth largest army in the world. More men under arms than in Iran. More than in France and Germany combined.*








    These men deployed to the woods of a single American state to hunt with firearms, and no one was killed.*
    AND That number pales in comparison to the 750,000 who hunted the woods of Pennsylvania and Michigan 's 700,000 hunters, All of whom have now returned home.*








    Toss in a quarter million hunters in West Virginia and it literally establishes the fact that the hunters of those four states alone would comprise the largest army in the world.








    And the point is?*
    To me people who wander are not lost.
    Beyond a well trained gun, you're everyday American Hunter is ... Hearty, ... Very Good with Maps and Orienteering ... A Skilled Woodsman ... Well Equipped ... And Very Capable of Surviving the Extremes at Length if Necessary!








    America will forever be safe from foreign invasion with that kind of home-grown firepower.
    Hunting -- it's not just a way to fill the freezer.
    Hunting is a matter of national security.
    Reminds me of this:
    "In World War II, the Swiss had defenses no other country had. Let's begin with the rifle in every home combined with the Alpine terrain. When the German Kaiser asked in 1912 what the quarter of a million Swiss militiamen would do if invaded by a half million German soldiers, a Swiss replied: shoot twice and go home.*
     
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