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You can go for many weeks without eating before death.

Discussion in 'Survival (Preps & Homestead)' started by keepitlow, Feb 7, 2011.



  1. keepitlow

    keepitlow Seeker Seeker

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    "Ten individuals died after sustaining their fasts between 46 and 73 days. Victims of war and torturous containment conditions have successfully fasted between 28 and 40 days."

    http://www.professorshouse.com/family/health/how-long-can-a-person-live-without-food.aspx

    "Medically speaking, most doctors agree that healthy humans can go up to eight weeks without food as long as they have water."

    http://health.howstuffworks.com/diseases-conditions/death-dying/live-without-food-and-water1.htm

    "Obese can live from 3-weeks up to 25-weeks and more without food depending upon initial health and amount of fat"

    Just depends what sort of things you do. Under stress, cold, heat or harsh conditions one could die sooner than what one plans for.

    I use conservative figure of 4 - 5 weeks. If you last longer...that is a bonus for you.

    Now, just because you got some free time from nature before you die of starvation...I'd prep some cause starving to death is not a pretty sight.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Goldhedge

    Goldhedge Modal Operator/Moderator Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    I think that guy over did dieting....
     
  3. GOLD DUCK

    GOLD DUCK Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    QWAK,Goldhedge,Could be he will be the next UNISEX "SUPER MODEL":wub: -- in the right dress and make up no one would notice he is a GUY! :alberteinstein::vollkommenauf:

    the DUCK :wub:
     
  4. earplugs

    earplugs Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    That picture is a fake Russian forged picture of a forged fake office photoshop of the auschwitz camp
     
  5. gold miser

    gold miser Silver Member Silver Miner

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    It is ashame that this world has people on it that looks like that!
     
  6. obilly

    obilly Silver Member Silver Miner

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    #2,3,4 NOTHING FUNNY HERE,with #1's post.. and Qwak (#3) this is not like you. jmo
     
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  7. Irons

    Irons Deep Sixed Mother Lode

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    Weeks?> Not me. After a few hours I'd be sticking a fork in the next thing that came strolling by.
     
  8. Rusty Shackelford

    Rusty Shackelford Midas Member Midas Member

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    Just remember "with adequate water". Considering that a huge portion of our water intake comes from food, you better have lots of H20 in storage.
     
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  9. GOLD DUCK

    GOLD DUCK Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    QWAK,obilly,OK so he will never be a SUPER MODEL -- but he may well be what MILLIONS look like in the near future! :ahhhhh::vollkommenauf:

    The greater REALITY is that WAR and FAMON are UGLY to BEHOLD and have always been -- yet we continue to do the things that cause them!:alberteinstein:

    We distence our selves FROM them and INSOLATE our minds from FEELING the pain and suffering BECAUSE we MUST to avoid going INSAINE! :idea:

    In an IDEAL WORLD such things would not happen BUT that is NOT reality and it IS -- NATURE and what NATURE DOES when we as HUMANS chose to do the things we do!:alberteinstein:

    When the deer population gets too large there is a WINTER KILL that reduces the population -- PEOPLE have the same problem as DEER and the same solution TOO.:s10::ahhhhh:

    Ultimitly the reason WE all PREP is to AVOID as long as posable and hopfully NEVER being in the same position as that person! :alberteinstein:

    the DUCK :shine::2:
     
  10. obilly

    obilly Silver Member Silver Miner

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    much more better Qwak #9,,,,,the op has made a point with the thread,,,,,and it just hit me the wrong way. i am to sensitive on the issue,,,,there is no good reason for starvation on this planet. what a shame?
     
  11. CiscoKid

    CiscoKid They all look good through beer goggles... Gold Chaser

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    I have a 45 acre farm with a herd of black Angus cattle, Berkshire cross hogs, and dairy goats. A good deep well and two spring filled ponds. The ponds are full of bass and catfish and a river is one of my property lines. Lots of game around too. Starving just isn't my main worry. Keeping my livestock from being stolen in a SHTF scenario is. Guns and dogs. Probably have to get a few well-armed friends to move their families in as well. Picked up a load of tuna on sale today. Cans say they're good until 9/2013. Being prepared helps me sleep good at night. :sleepy13:
     
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  12. obilly

    obilly Silver Member Silver Miner

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    the time line of starvation is still not very well understood on this forum,,,,, after 1 week the sick will be dead,,,,the alive will be barely able to walk to the fema feeding camp,,, after 2 weeks those still alive will only have the energy to stumble toward the feeding station,,,,,,, after 3 weeks they will lie there and sleep waiting for fema to come to them. PREP,,,,jmo
     
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  13. <===Foolsgold

    <===Foolsgold Gold Member Site Supporter Gold Chaser

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    No You can go for many weeks without eating before death.
     
  14. Quixote2

    Quixote2 Seeker Seeker

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    You can live 3 weeks to 3 months without food (infants to ample adults).
    You can live 3 days without water.
    You can live 3 hours without warmth or shelter.
    You can live 3 minutes without air.
    You can live 3 seconds without bullet proof vest or wisdom to not make yourself a target.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2011
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  15. AceNZ

    AceNZ Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Being somewhat overweight (not to the point of obesity) has been a survival advantage for millennia.

    At least that way, it's harder for others to steal your preps!
     
  16. obilly

    obilly Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Q2#14 that really puts it in a nut shell,,, don't it?
     
  17. Nickelless

    Nickelless If coffee is gold, I own Fort Knox Midas Member

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    The problem isn't food supply--the problem is food distribution or the lack thereof. Look at North Korea--they might be generally short on food, but what they have goes mostly to the military and the ruling elite. This is the case in a ton of other countries as well. It reminds me of a quote by one of the U.N.'s elitists (so many of them, it's hard to keep track of the arrogance):

    http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote_blog/Catherine.Bertini.Quote.C6CD

    That's exactly why we need to prep! Never mind FEMA's dictatorial tactics--who in their right mind would trust a morally and financially bankrupt country to "take care of them"?
     
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  18. goldie40

    goldie40 Silver Member Silver Miner

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    all one has to do is see the WW2 pictures of the Jews and others rescued from the camps that the NAZIES had. Our American soldiers had been raised in homes that were in the middle of the great depression so they just thought they knew what hunger was til they reached the camps.
     
  19. gold miser

    gold miser Silver Member Silver Miner

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    That's exactly why we need to prep! Never mind FEMA's dictatorial tactics--who in their right mind would trust a morally and financially bankrupt country to "take care of them"?[/QUOTE]

    trusting our gov. is like trusting bernie madoff with your kids piggy bank!
     
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  20. shades

    shades Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    If you manage to starve in most countries in the West you're an idiot, or someone that would rather die than eat something potentially distasteful with absolutely no hunting knowledge/instinct, there is food all around you,
    often just growing in people's gardens. Damn, you could eat all those pets out there if you manage to evade their angry owners and live high on the hog so to speak.

    It's not as if we have the same over-population issues of resource-poor / arable-poor countries.

    You have to be prepared to be mobile for food and live a nomadic existence if required and seek out the best food and water sources. Stay put, and you're quite likely done.
     
  21. Walter Mitty

    Walter Mitty New Member

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    You can go awhile without food but at what energy level? What will you be able to accomplish during that time?
    After 2 weeks you will be listless, all you will be able to think about is food. At four weeks you will be around 20 pounds
    lighter and maybe half that will be muscle mass. You need sugars (fat) to process your muscle mass (protein) into
    usable components for your cells. Once your muscle mass starts depleting , your ability to move or work degrades.
    Some of the emaciated dead in the German camps at the end of WWII were autopsied. They still had fat on their bodies but hardly any muscle mass left. In my opinion anyone that thinks they will be functioning normally after 3 weeks of no food
    is deluding themselves. Just my .02.
     
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  22. Goldhedge

    Goldhedge Modal Operator/Moderator Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    There's a video floating around here of Stalin and how he starved a whole nation to death.

    I agree Obilly, there should be no starvation anywhere in the world, but that isn't exactly
    what is happening. Even here in the US, the 'richest' nation in the world, folks go hungry.

    Thank the bankers for bleeding the wealth of the Nation to line their pockets.

    "Let them eat cake" indeed.
     
  23. keepitlow

    keepitlow Seeker Seeker

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    trusting our gov. is like trusting bernie madoff with your kids piggy bank![/QUOTE]

    I 'used to' trust the gov to take care of everyone in an emergency....I admit it! Never studied politics, just took them at their word.
     
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  24. Nickelless

    Nickelless If coffee is gold, I own Fort Knox Midas Member

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    Stalin had to disarm the Ukrainians first before he could rape and pillage them and then starve them. They'll get my guns over my dead body.
     
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  25. Goldfinger

    Goldfinger Silver Member Site Supporter Silver Miner

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    I just finished a three day fast. While I didn't really do it for survival training, I think it was a very valuable experience. Knowing what to expect and having "been there before" will be comforting IMO, if it ever comes to that. For instance, during my fast I had massive headaches and pretty bad muscle aches, which is supposedly your body throwing off toxins. My blood sugar was really on a roller coaster too. I would fluctuate from decent energy levels to absolutely nothing left in the tank in a matter of minutes. Sleep and rest became very important. I also figured out that you have to ease back into eating as well...just trust me on that one! i more or less just became more in tune with my body. While that's all well and good now, I can definitely see how different the experience might be in a more high stress, less ideal environment. Like if you were exposed to the elements, under physical duress or evading zombies. I can definitely see how easily you could become exhausted, disoriented or confused and how important it would be to stay calm and pace yourself, which will now be at the forefront of my mind if ever faced with it.

    Btw, this wasn't the first or longest time I had every been without food, but I was pretty young before. Much different experience this time around. Honestly, I think it would be a good exercise for anyone serious about survival. Oh yeah...and I lost about 5lbs of chub to boot!
     
  26. Argentsum

    Argentsum Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Your brain (and nervous system) takes priority over all other organs. Brain needs glucose (carbohydrate). Lacking fuel it will cannibalize tissues from muscle and fat and burn the resulting ketones.

    This works great but once the body determines it is in starvation mode most metabolic processes slow down. That includes higher brain function. Also, there is an instant fuel around the muscles and liver that is normally used in emergencies and/or vigorous exercise. This is around 300 calories of glucose (read glycogen). Yup, the brain takes this before going to ketones. This means that, in an emergency, you might "hit the wall" at an inopportune time.

    Performing feats of exertion while in starvation mode is an effort of will. It can be done but your burning the candle from both ends. Your body will let you know that it does NOT like to do this. Meanwhile your mental clarity, your ability to focus, and your general good temperament will all take a hit.

    You WILL discover how tough you are. For an added bonus, add some sleep deprivation and extreme weather into the mix. Now your having real fun.
     
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  27. argentos

    argentos Former Boat Owner Gold Chaser

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    That's why it's so important to drink loadsa (safe) water when you are not getting any grub, to dilute those toxins and pee them out quick.
     
  28. <SLV>

    <SLV> Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I recommend that everyone read "The Science and Fine Art of Fasting" by Dr. Herbert Shelton. If you want to read more, try "Fasting and Eating for Health" by Dr. Joel Furman and "Therapeutic Fasting" by Arnold DeVries.

    I have completed several long fasts -- nothing but water. The first, and longest, of my fasts was 35 days (7 weeks for those who went through the public schools). I ended the fast early -- I did not fast to "completion." There are distinct and immediate signals that the body is transitioning from fasting to starving, and those who ignore those signs will do damage to their bodies within a couple days. Those signs are as follows:

    1. The tongue (which is heavily coated) turns clear and pink
    2. The breath becomes sweet -- there is a foul taste when fasting due to the purging of toxins
    3. Most importantly, the return of "true hunger."

    After about 3-5 days of fasting the urge to eat goes away. When you reach the point where starvation will begin you will get an unmistakable (I'm told) urge to eat that has been described as "being in the throat -- like thirst." Like I said, I was not at this point after 35 days.

    One of the primary reasons I fasted was to know what I would have to experience if I needed to forego eating in an emergency. THERE IS A PROPER WAY TO FAST -- if you fail to follow the rules you will risk your health and your life:

    1. ONLY WATER -- you must permit your body to enter "fasting mode" -- your bowels must go dormant/sterile. If you take in anything besides water (even vitamins or tea) you will be hindering the process and damaging your health.
    2. One quart per day (a little more or less) -- you are at a greater risk of drinking too much than too little. Too little will cause the toxins released from the burning of fat deposists to build up and not be readily flushed out of your system. This will make you feel worse. If you drink too much water you will DIE from having your electrolytes flushed out. The best rule of thumb is to drink when you are thirsty (small amounts frequently).
    3. You must break your fast with diluted fruit juice. Juice fresh oranges and dilute it with 1 part water. Drink 8 ounce each hour. The second day actually eat the oranges. The third day add grapes and apples. By the end of one week you should be ready to eat meats. If you break your fast with a cheeseburger you may die -- it has happened.

    I also recommend a 1-week pre fast diet that eliminates sugars, grains, dairy, meats, until you are only eating raw fruits and vegetables the last two days, and even then only one cup of each.

    There is too much to list in this post. If you are serious about doing a true fast then you must read Dr. Shelton's masterpiece on the subject.

    SLV
     
  29. GOLD DUCK

    GOLD DUCK Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    QWAK,Argentsum,Back when I was in my 20s in the army there were lots of things that were on the edge and doable that at 61 I would never even concider today! :alberteinstein:

    I like to think :idea: in a full out SURVIVAL emergency I could but truth be told -- it would probably KILL me:vollkommenauf: and I know it! :alberteinstein:

    I got SMARTER :2:and PREPED so I may AVOID such situations! :alberteinstein::23_30_104:

    the DUCK :shine::2:
     
  30. Argentsum

    Argentsum Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Ditto Duck, Ditto...

    Fasting for religious/spiritual/4kicks is one thing. Fasting against one's will is quite another.
     
  31. Argentsum

    Argentsum Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    The concept of purging toxins while fasting is overblown.

    Sure, you continue to sweat, pee, and otherwise remove wastes while fasting, and your certainly not consuming any more lead based paint since you've stopped eating. Your breath is going to change for the worse while fasting but thats a product of fasting (excess acetones from ketones) and not the purging of poisons. I guess you could say the fat and muscle your burning is a toxin but that's something of a stretch in my humble opinion. Yeah headaches and other pains are frequently encountered while fasting. Its because you brain is switching gears from burning glucose to burning ketones. There is also blood pressure changes that don't help.

    Call it a toxin removal if you will.

    Oh yeah, and the visions you experience on day 35 of your fast? The ones where the trees whisper your name on the wind? Those are religious.
     
  32. chris9081

    chris9081 New Member

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    Cisco, myself being an avid hunter and outdoorsman I understand your thoughts and someone like yourself with land and animals surely will be ok in a SHTF scenario but when the american population with the same thoughts as yourself and I are all killing the local deer and wild hogs and catching all the fish in local ponds how much will really be left? Also as far as pets go my dog will be cooked medium rare on the fire long before anyone else has a chance to catch it for their own consumption!
     
  33. shades

    shades Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    The body naturally removes certain contaminants over time, including things like arsenic, mercury, lead and others via your bowel primarily, so if you're just taking water/sugar for example for 30 days, it is conceivable that you will pass some waste out of your
    system, but not taking food doesn't mean you are necessarily accelerating the process. No food and lots of liquids might be a good way of getting small kidney stones out.

    As the fecal path, is one of the main exit points, due to the liver excreting the contaminants into bile via the gallbladder then into the intestine, you are doing yourself no real favours in getting most contaminants out by not eating (fasting), as bile goes out with the faeces via the bowel along with the contaminants, and not via the bladder as far as I'm aware (which is instead urea). Here are foods that are purported to stimulate bile production or aid in some way and other info (references):

    http://www.diagnose-me.com/glossary/G534.html

    http://www.eco-usa.net/toxics/chemicals/mercury.shtml

    http://www.eoearth.org/article/Excretion_of_toxicants

    Citation

    NLM (Content Source);Sidney Draggan, Emily Monosson (Topic Editor) "Excretion of toxicants". In: Encyclopedia of Earth. Eds. Cutler J. Cleveland (Washington, D.C.: Environmental Information Coalition, National Council for Science and the Environment). [First published in the Encyclopedia of Earth November 28, 2006; Last revised Date December 20, 2010; Retrieved February 8, 2011 <http://www.eoearth.org/article/Excretion_of_toxicants>
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2011
  34. <SLV>

    <SLV> Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    When you are 7-10 days into a fast (only water) you will notice that the specific gravity of your urine gets significantly higher. When you pee in the toilet it sinks to the bottom and seperates from the water! As the fast continues the specific gravity eventually comes back down toward that of water. Dr. Shelton has a lot of data on this point. I have read that this is due to the elimination of heavy metal toxins, and these toxins tend to held in higher concentration in the adipose tissue of the legs.
     
  35. shades

    shades Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    No, that is completely wrong. Heavy metals mainly leave via the bile used for digestion, not via your urine as I've explained in the post above.

    Is it this Dr. Shelton? He's long gone...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_M._Shelton#Death

    (The only thing I might agree with, is that cooking food can take some of the goodness out of it, and alter proteins.)


    "
    Career

    Shelton attended Bernarr Macfadden's College of Physcultopathy in Chicago and interned at Crane's Sanatorium in Elmhurst, Illinois. He also attended Lindlahr College of Natural Therapeutics for post-graduate work and served at Lindlahr's and Sahler's Sanatoriums. Shelton later continued post-graduate work at Peerless College of Chiropractic in Illinois and served an internship at Crandall Health School in Pennsylvania.
    In 1921, he married Ida Pape, studied at the American School of Chiropractic, and graduated from the American School of Naturopathy with a Doctor of Naturopathy (ND) and a Doctor of Naturopathic Literature (ND Litt).[citation needed] He preached that cooking food denatures it, and that a healthy body has the ability to restore itself from illness without medical intervention. Although heavily criticized by his contemporaries for advocating fasting over medical treatment, Shelton remains an early leader of the raw food movement.
    In 1922, Shelton self-published his first book, Fundamentals of Nature Cure. Seeing importance in the Hygienic Movement (launched in 1832 by Dr. Isaac Jennings and Sylvester Graham), he changed the title of this first book to An Introduction to Natural Hygiene. A later book, The Science and Fine Art of Fasting, had exerted a tremendous influence on Mahatma Gandhi, who frequently consulted the book before undertaking public fasts.

    In 1927, he was arrested, jailed and fined three times for practicing medicine without a license. These arrests continued periodically through the next three decades while he continued to lecture and campaign for his ideas.[2]
    In 1932, Shelton was jailed repeatedly for practicing medicine without a license. Found guilty of violating the Medical Practice Act, he served 30 days on Rikers Island.
    In 1942, Shelton was charged with negligent homicide and "treating and offering to treat a human being without a state medical license" for starving a patient to death.[2] The case was never tried and charges were dropped.
    In 1978, another patient died at one of his schools, this time apparently of a heart attack. After a two-year-long court battle, Shelton lost the lawsuit for negligence and was bankrupted by the judgment.[2] The school closed as a result.


    By 1972, at the age of 77, he was completely bedridden from a degenerative neuro-muscular disease believed to be Parkinson's disease.[2] He died thirteen years later, unable to improve his own health despite many attempts. His contemporaries were shocked to see him unable to walk, speak normally, or write.
    Toward the end most of his subsequent books were dictated in a whisper. He continued his involvement in Dr Shelton's Health School (now the seventh organization under that name).
    A biography of Shelton was published in 1989, Yours for Health: The Life and Times of Herbert M. Shelton by Jean A. Oswald, Franklin Books, Franklin, Wisconsin ISBN 0-9620490-0-X
    "
     
  36. Avalon

    Avalon Lawn Protected by Guns Of Avalon Gold Chaser

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    People like you scare me..!! :bear_noexpression: I have watched my family to see how they react to hunger so I know what Im up against if we ever have a period of starvation. I have done enough serious dieting to know hunger does ease after awhile especially if you are ingesting no food. My husband and youngest Daughter can go without eating. My oldest Daughter scares me. I have told her many times if we were stranded in a mountain plane crash she would be eyeing my rump roast for consumption by the second day!!!
     
  37. GOLD DUCK

    GOLD DUCK Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    QWAK,Avalon, :ahhhhh::haha: If she has a "How to cook ZOMBIES" Cook Book in her Grab and Go bag -- you are DINNER!:vollkommenauf::banana::haha:

    Perhaps you should keep a bag of BEEF JURKEY in your grab and go bag JUST for her?? :23_30_104::banana::cheerful:

    the DUCK :shine::2:
     
  38. Nickelless

    Nickelless If coffee is gold, I own Fort Knox Midas Member

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    Interesting observation. In my case, I wonder what the specific gravity of coffee is. :biggrin:

    [​IMG]
     
  39. <SLV>

    <SLV> Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Yes, Dr. Shelton is long gone -- dead at the age of 90. During his life he supervised over 60,000 fasts. A couple of his patients died. That isn't a bad ratio for any medical doctor. Yes, I know that the government didn't recognize him as a physician. I'm sure you would agree that the government is overly zealous with licensure and supervision in every aspect of our lives.

    In his day he was on the cutting edge of natural health. I recommend reading "The Science and Fine Art of Fasting." It is a lengthy read, but very thorough and well documented throughout. At the very least every GIMmer ought to be aware of the physiological process of fasting for a long period of time.
     

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