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Americans Have No Idea How Much Fuel Idling Uses

nickndfl

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I offset the idiling losses by running a hose from my butt to the carburetor. Cuts the smell on ac recirc too.
 

newmisty

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Only certain models came without the start stop. The truck I bought was a Sierra 5.3 v8 standard cab long bed work truck that did not have the start stop feature. It looks like this one but mine has the factory step bars and fog lights. Has the fuell thing chip but no start stop. I can only wonder what the price will be to maintain the starter motor and the systems it uses to work over the life of the start/stop vehicle.
Incedentally I bought the truck for business use in my rental properties and not as a pleasure vehicle; hence no back seat and the long bed to haul 4x8 sheet goods without having to lower the tailgate to haul them.
Hey @edsl48 How high off the ground is the tailgate won your sierra when down? I've got a 2001 sierra w/ 5.3 and have wondered as the hood on the newer models looks a foot higher.
 

Casey Jones

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and the torque on all of the moving pars from a dead stop to an idle speed has got to take a toll on those micro-gapped bearing / journal regions, the cylinders / rings don't like reduced oil / no oil start ups

what's the oil viscosity today: 0? do they have an oil that's gaseous yet? lol
Just means an earlier, expensive failure...which means...A NEW TRUCK!

The same marketing ploy VW and M-B and BMW have used for years. They're great cars while the warranty lasts; and then...something, usually electronic or modular, fails, and the shop estimate is more than the KBB value.

Which is why you see undamaged, good-looking late-model German cars, scrapped.

Ford has gone that way, too. My brief F150 experience gave me a warning on modern Ford automatic transmissions: NO dipstick or fluid fill; and leaking. 41,000 miles and leaking. My mechanic (for previous cars) won't work on modern Fords. Dealer says, new transmission pan. $800.

On top of the split seam on the aluminum bed for a minor impact, load shift.

So, I guess, these trucks will start-stop their way into scrapping at 60,000 miles or so. And between emissions testing and all that infernal wiring and CANBUS, there won't be any engine swaps. It ain't like the old days, when a Ford 302 or a SBC would go into any truck Ford or GM made.

I bought a Toyota to replace that Ford (OUCH!) and I'm not that impressed, there, either. But they have a track record for toughness, and mine is low miles for a 2017.
 

edsl48

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Hey @edsl48 How high off the ground is the tailgate won your sierra when down? I've got a 2001 sierra w/ 5.3 and have wondered as the hood on the newer models looks a foot higher.
The tailgate is rounded and so on the outside at the center of the gate it is 28 1/2 in , and on the side it is 30 3/4/in. On the inside of the gate, or the amount one would have to lift something to get it in there its 35 in. Bear in mind mine is a 2wd and I assume that a 4wd would be higher.

I had a 2004 Silverado that fit those carts at HD or Lowes perfectly. This one you have to watch because a cart could easily get under it and my thoughts are a repaint would be pretty expensive. Great idea GM had changing those heights /s
If I had it to do over I might have gotten one of those multi whatever tail gates as they were only about 400+ bucks higher. I didn't know what they were so I passed on them. Now that I know it would make it easier for my 70+ old body to get in the bed when the beer cooler is in the front of the bed. With today's height on the trucks getting stuff by reaching over the side has been limited so if you are looking into getting one that is something to consider...just sayin
 
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Buck

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the beer cooler is in the front of the bed.
i learned the value of those split rear windows, the kind that open

makes that job a whole lot easier
(and it made so much more sense to me, when i was a teenager)
 

Casey Jones

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Now the split rear window is like a porthole with a plug.

We've gone a long way, from when Studebaker (with the Champ) introduced back windows that opened. The Champ had a window that actually rolled down. But Studebaker was on its deathbed - and the Champ didn't sell, since it used a cab derived from the Lark compact car.

Reminded people of an El Camino or Ranchero, even though the chassis was the same truck frame Studebaker had been using in the 1950s.

But...we can't have that anymore. Just as we can't have manual gearboxes anymore.
 

Rusty Shackelford

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I bought a 2021 GM truck just to avoid that start stop crap
Learn to be one with your brakes...the stop/start on my Ranger requires a pretty heavy brake pedal....a nice smooth light brake will keep vehicle running
 

Someone_else

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a nice smooth light brake will keep vehicle running
That reminds me of an airplane story. After taxing to the gate, one of the pilots exclaimed something like, "What the hell about that stop?!" to the other. It was (is?) common for pilots to step on the brakes until the plane is stopped. This leads to an abrupt stop and a physical stammer that everyone can feel. The mentor stated that this is unprofessional.

I agree. In any vehicle with brakes, the best way to stop is to use the brakes normally until the motion is near a stop. Then reduce or eliminate the pressure until the stop is complete. WITHOUT ANY PERCEPTIBLE JOLT WHATSOEVER! After reading the story, I have taken it to heart, and I believe my skill has improved.
 

newmisty

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The tailgate is rounded and so on the outside at the center of the gate it is 28 1/2 in , and on the side it is 30 3/4/in. On the inside of the gate, or the amount one would have to lift something to get it in there its 35 in. Bear in mind mine is a 2wd and I assume that a 4wd would be higher.

I had a 2004 Silverado that fit those carts at HD or Lowes perfectly. This one you have to watch because a cart could easily get under it and my thoughts are a repaint would be pretty expensive. Great idea GM had changing those heights /s
If I had it to do over I might have gotten one of those multi whatever tail gates as they were only about 400+ bucks higher. I didn't know what they were so I passed on them. Now that I know it would make it easier for my 70+ old body to get in the bed when the beer cooler is in the front of the bed. With today's height on the trucks getting stuff by reaching over the side has been limited so if you are looking into getting one that is something to consider...just sayin
From my observations the Dodge Ram was the first big big looking truck in terms of its deliberate styling. When I first dealt with one in person I couldn't believe how high up the damn engine compartment was.
As time passed I noticed the other trucks following suit and trying to make them appear bigger. Now they're all that way. I recall seeing a description of one of the newer trucks that came with like a ladder or some kind of accoutrement to help make up the difference that's when I knew this supersizing had already gone off the rails.

Does yours have the 6L80 tranny?
 

hammerhead

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I enjoyed sitting in an idling vehicle for a few more hours today. Would rather have been putting roof panels on but the boys did a good job even with me on the ground.
 

Goldbrix

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In this kinda weather and time of year I sit in my truck idling as the defrosters do their job, drive over to the school, leave the truck running while I place my traffic cone out, pull across the street where my parking spot allows me to see my intersection and driveway up the the front door. I stay in the running truck until 5min. of my start time. And stay in the nice warm truck until the traffic begins to bunch up or my few morning walkers come into view.
That when my truck get turn off and I leave the emergency lights flashing as long as my shift lasts, about a half hour when the school tone ( No bells no more) goes off.
Come back at 2pm and do it all again.
They pay me to protect the kiddies and direct traffic until the kiddies are safely inside. Not to Freeze or get soaked in crazy Kentucky weather.
Not quite as much idling as cop cars do but more than the average Joe.
 

tigerwillow1

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As time passed I noticed the other trucks following suit and trying to make them appear bigger.
In reality it makes them butt ugly. And what they're doing with the DRLs is gross.
 

dacrunch

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Does anyone have experience driving a car with a stop-start system?

At what point does it stop (how many seconds)?

Thinking about stop and go traffic, stop signs vs stop lights, etc...

Any safety concerns, aside from that mentioned by Buck?

Again, hoping to hear from somebody who actually drives one regularly.

my 2019 cheapo manual stick shift 5-speed Dacia (Renault knock-off) has that, but there's a button you can push to deactivate it temporarily until you remove the key..

At first it pissed me off - felt like "stalling".

How it works? Come to a stop, put in neutral, remove the foot from the clutch. It shuts off the engine (pain in the ass if you need AC while waiting). Then when you put your foot on the clutch, the engine turns over instantly.

I just wonder whether the "fuel savings" will offset the "replacement starter motor" that you'll need much sooner due to the multiple usage...
 
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Casey Jones

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I just wonder whether the "fuel savings" will offset the "replacement starter motor" that you'll need much sooner due to the multiple usage...
Nope.

That's not their concern. Their concern is meeting tailpipe emissions.

That "pollution" is increased in other ways, such as the cost and emissions to make more starters...does not matter. The objective is to meet tailpipe emissions.

This is similar to the 1970s, where, before electronic controls and fuel injection, primitive emissions systems dropped a car's power and raised fuel usage. A car the size of a Chevrolet Malibu would get about 12 miles a gallon in use.

That's a lot of petrol being burned. A lot of emissions...but those were "okay" emissions; the worry was on the specific emissions measured by government tests.

Racing mechanic Smokey Yunick wrote that he couldn't understand how a (then) new car could burn so much gasoline and yet render fewer emissions, and proposed a lifting of standards for small cars of the time. He reasoned, logically, that the small total use of gasoline would be better for the environment than would be harmed by a little extra NOx and particulate emissions.

Eventually, with catalytic converters and electronic controls, the question became moot; but it's telling that engineers and designers got zero audience with regulators.

So it will be, here, now.

I can see a solution to this, that makers will probably adopt: It takes less oomph to start a warmed-up engine than it does a cold stop. Soooo...the alternator could be designed to work as a motor for traffic-stop triggers to start, using the drive belt. That would eliminate the gear wear on the primary starter...just a relay flopping over circuits.

As I said way above, Honda does this with small scooters; and professional lawn-care equipment has done this with small gas engines in the past. Electric start driven by a vee-belt attached to the motor that also serves to charge up the battery. Of course, with those systems, in the 1970s, current draw was light; but then, wear on the whole system was neglegible.
 

dacrunch

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I just wonder whether the "fuel savings" will offset the "replacement starter motor" that you'll need much sooner due to the multiple usage...
Actually, an "idiot light" came on in my car today. Took it in to the dealer. It's just signaling that it's time for an oil-change & tune-up.

But I asked the mechanic about the cost benefit between "fuel savings" and "replacing a worn starter motor", and he replied that it didn't make "mechanical sense", but it was "for the environment"... to which I stated 'The Environment In Quotes' - and he agreed & laughed...

Well, getting it serviced tomorrow...
 

rte

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I rented a car with stupid option.
I found if you stop short of the red light and roll up to the line, the car would stop then start right back up allowing you to idle at the light with lite pressure on the brake pedal.
The other thing I got from this stupid option is a sense of why people roll thru the red lights or stop signs when making a right turn...because the car won't have to stop and start.
 

dacrunch

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I rented a car with stupid option.
I found if you stop short of the red light and roll up to the like the car would stop then start right back up allowing you to idle at the light.
The other thing I got from this stupid option is a sense of why people roll thru the red lights or stop signs when making a right turn...because the car won't have to stop and start.
must be an automatic then...
 

rte

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must be an automatic then...
Yes it was a POS Nissan Sentra.
Can you even rent a car these days that isn't an automatic?
I thought that went out with the hurtz rental car program.
 

southfork

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How big of an inverter can you power using your car battery with it running and ac off, dont forget the car alternator output is like 175 amps, what if you hooked another battery in paralell ?? Think it would put out 5k?
 

Casey Jones

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How big of an inverter can you power using your car battery with it running and ac off, dont forget the car alternator output is like 175 amps, what if you hooked another battery in paralell ?? Think it would put out 5k?
I would avoid drawing beyond the car's maximum alternator capacity.

I have a 2500-watt inverter that's to bolt directly to a vehicle battery...it's intended for permanent installation in trucks, but bolting it up to a car battery, via the battery-terminal bolts, is quick and easy. To generate power, I would use a stick or weight on the throttle to run the engine at about 1800-2000 rpm. On the Toyota Camry I last did this, that was not excessively fast or hard running.

It pumped out the power just fine. If you went with two batteries in parallel, you might get more power for a time; but if you exceed the max alternator output, you'll have the charging system pumping out as hard as it can, and the batteries still drawing down...car wiring is at risk and when you're done, you'll have partially discharged batteries.

For short power uses, it shouldn't matter; but to do it constantly, as in, heating electrically...no. Just, no. Find a way to reduce your power need, or get another way of generating current.
 

TomD

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This is all just idle speculation.