• Same story, different day...........year ie more of the same fiat floods the world
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  • "Spreading the ideas of freedom loving people on matters regarding high finance, politics, constructionist Constitution, and mental masturbation of all types"

Crypto, my take on it

97guns

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#1
Maybe I’m caught in the frenzy having my 10k investment double up in 3 days with litecoin or if I’ve just seen the light but I feel crypto is gonna pop more , It’s unthinkable but $17000 bitcoin will go higher, there will be a coin in the future that will be our currency. it’s already playing a role in the economy and sure to gain.

It’s really easy to sit on the sideline and pick it apart as to why it’s a terrible investment, I’ve been there. the hard part is getting in and taking a position, but when you’re in the game and see gains everything becomes easy
 

gliddenralston

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#2
Been reading and following crypto craze, I really don't get it...I do know from experience meteoric rises cause an euphoric that you never want to end...I also know from experience when something pops it meteoric descend has 3-4 times the velocity as its rise and the small guys always get to hold the bag... crypto is getting a herd mentality, its everywhere in the news & coffee shops...I'll watch this from the sideline, good luck.
 

D-FENZ

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#3
Good for you. My most sincere congratulations. Just be careful.

I was in a similar situation- except on steroids- with a hot tech stock back in the day. And again later to a lesser extent with some coffee options. In both instances I made the same mistake confusing luck and a bull market with my own singular brilliance. And all I could think about was crushing my in-laws under my enormous wealth.

Damn was it a great ride... Don't need to tell you how it ended but it did.
 

nickndfl

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#4
When it pops you got nothing. What can you even buy with BTC? You are just selling to some other schmuck who thinks it's going to infinity. It won't.
 

Ebie

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#5
Ponzi did not crash due to inability to pay investors.
They had to do it with police and courts.
 

solarion

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#6

Goldhedge

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#7
Smart BTC will cash out and purchase real assets...
 

97guns

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#10
I’m not pulling anything out, pressing bets, I’m already playing with house money, it’s funds generated from passive income that I didn’t lift a finger for. It should be 1/4 of bitcoin, my target is $4k
 

pay dirt

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#12
All the cryptos are up and there are hundreds of them to choose from. Pulled up by the Bitcoin rocket. Are there any decentralized exchanges yet that trade cryptos for FRN? Seems Coinbase (centralized) is a big juicy target for .gov.
 

louky

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#13
already started rotating some of my gazillions in to other crypto related, SALT the latest month or so ago
 
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hoarder

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#14
It must be fun playing musical chairs with the people who control when the music stops.
 

Shortstack

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#15
Maybe I’m caught in the frenzy having my 10k investment double up in 3 days with litecoin or if I’ve just seen the light but I feel crypto is gonna pop more , It’s unthinkable but $17000 bitcoin will go higher, there will be a coin in the future that will be our currency. it’s already playing a role in the economy and sure to gain.

It’s really easy to sit on the sideline and pick it apart as to why it’s a terrible investment, I’ve been there. the hard part is getting in and taking a position, but when you’re in the game and see gains everything becomes easy
Thanks for lighting a fire under my arse. I bought in over the past few days, about the size of your position, can't say the same about cost basis, mine being a tad under $300 per coin. Saw a video the creator posted some time back, he said Litecoin was silver and Bitcoin gold. I guess this is the $300 silver I was looking for all these years.

If Litecoin goes down then I will buy more. Also looking at ripple/XRP - they say this is the next Bitcoin but hey, aren't they all?
 

#48Fan

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#16
Thanks for lighting a fire under my arse. I bought in over the past few days, about the size of your position, can't say the same about cost basis, mine being a tad under $300 per coin. Saw a video the creator posted some time back, he said Litecoin was silver and Bitcoin gold. I guess this is the $300 silver I was looking for all these years.

If Litecoin goes down then I will buy more. Also looking at ripple/XRP - they say this is the next Bitcoin but hey, aren't they all?
I'm no expert by any means. I believe LTC is a good hold (might need strong hands), it really needs to break ATH's for a breakout (ltc/btc). If it can't manage it this time it could drop considerably where I think it would be smart to accumulate.

Also, remember XRP is pretty much shunned in the crypto world as it is centralized and developed for the banksters. It just hit an ATH, so I would wait to enter after a considerable correction. I do own some XRP. I'm up $ and down BTC. Since I'm collecting BTC, I'm going to have to wait for XRP to take off.
 
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#18
I bought $20.00 worth of BTC back in November when it was right around $6,600. That's all I have. Got it out of a BTC ATM. I was too afraid to do anything more. Since then I have spent $1,100 on silver because of the dips we have seen. It's very debatable whether I made a mistake. I am a long term guy though.
 

Shortstack

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#20
image.jpg
image.jpg
I'm no expert by any means. I believe LTC is a good hold (might need strong hands), it really needs to break ATH's for a breakout (ltc/btc). If it can't manage it this time it could drop considerably where I think it would be smart to accumulate.

Also, remember XRP is pretty much shunned in the crypto world as it is centralized and developed for the banksters. It just hit an ATH, so I would wait to enter after a considerable correction. I do own some XRP. I'm up $ and down BTC. Since I'm collecting BTC, I'm going to have to wait for XRP to take off.
Hate to ask but here goes. Allocating 30k prior to year end into this space. I was going to purchase a 99% (almost new) RS inspected m-1911-a1 and another pristine 1924 transitional but I have enough 1911's for now. Can you suggest a few coins for me to research and then pull the trigger on?

Getting into this space really does take the sting out of PM's not having the huge increase the crypto market has seen. Just proves there is something wrong with gov issued fiat.

I figure if the crypto market crashes, perhaps the metals will finally see the massive increase we all have been waiting for. Bet I am not the only one here who feels like the huge move up In Crypto should have instead happened in the PM space
 
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#48Fan

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#21
Shortstack, I'm more than likely the wrong person to ask. With that said, I'll give you some tips that may help you decide. Start by looking at the top 50 alts on coin market cap. Pay attention to circulating/total supply. You don't really want too low CS unless you like high volatility, and you don't want too high either because it takes so much for the price to move. My personal sweet spot is between 100mill and 400mill. Don't get me wrong, I also like the "good" one with lower supply like LTC. Then look at the charts and find the best entry. I look for at least a 60% retracement from the previous ATH as a good entry point. Check their websites and research the whitepapers, team, roadmap. Make an informed investment. 30k boocoo dollahs

If you are interested in higher risk coins, PM me and good luck to you!
 

Joseph

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#22
When it pops you got nothing. What can you even buy with BTC? You are just selling to some other schmuck who thinks it's going to infinity. It won't.
Pretty much like any stock that gets bought and/or sold

I've doubled my investment, and it's still increasing ... I bought in for as much as I'm willing to lose. Just like my 401K, and any other promising stocks. I'll get out when I feel the time is right -
"infinity" <pffffft>
 

pay dirt

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#23
View attachment 96426 View attachment 96427
Hate to ask but here goes. Allocating 30k prior to year end into this space. I was going to purchase a 99% (almost new) RS inspected m-1911-a1 and another pristine 1924 transitional but I have enough 1911's for now. Can you suggest a few coins for me to research and then pull the trigger on?

Getting into this space really does take the sting out of PM's not having the huge increase the crypto market has seen. Just proves there is something wrong with gov issued fiat.

I figure if the crypto market crashes, perhaps the metals will finally see the massive increase we all have been waiting for. Bet I am not the only one here who feels like the huge move up In Crypto should have instead happened in the PM space
SS I am right there with ya. Been researching this quite a bit. I think there is going to be a big correction coming and when that happens position for the second wave. I would research Cardano (one of the developers is a big Ron Paul Supporter) its dirt cheap and under the radar. Decentralized exchanges are the future. Ripple is heavily invested in by the Banks (raises a red flag).
 

Shortstack

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#24
1924 transitional - SG pic_LI (2).jpg
I am going to help the big correction along by investing at least half now - things always plummet after I take a position. But the market knows when I am fully invested and won't allow things to crash until the moment I invest all in. So perhaps I should do this ASAP so that you all can benefit from the plummet that will follow after I lock in my last trade at the current highs. Like I said before, the more I invest the less crappy I feel about buying $300 Litecoin as opposed to selling $300 silver. My new formula is 1 Litecoin for every pound of adult bodyweight of your family. Which means 650-700 Litecoins in my case. Which is going to cost me a fair amount at these prices - so I better get busy. Here is my current transitional, this is about 98%, one of the nicer ones to come up in the past few years - you can tell because the serial numbers on transitionals started at 700000 - mine was in the first 800 made, and described as "beautiful" by the top 1911 expert in the country, taking the reigns from Clawson when he died a few years back. Instead of getting another and a RS inspected in "almost new" condition, I will instead allocate this to Litecoin....
 
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FunnyMoney

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#25
... things always plummet after I take a position. But the market knows when I am fully invested and won't allow things to crash until the moment I invest all in. ....
I think we are at the high for BTC and the BTC topping process is now underway. I would watch the market cap for the others as well as I'm not a believer regarding this mania we are in with the cryptos. I know some science myself and about the technology and when you add up the amount of money going into this, I don't believe it is warranted in terms of the value of the instruments that are being seen as a location to park and grow wealth nor for the future prospects of the technology to warrant such high valuations. I see the valuation here as an illusion but illusions have made a lot of people a lot of money, it can take time for them to break. If enough people "believe" then an avalanche of money seems to flow.
 

Uglytruth

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#26
I thought that when the DOW was at 12K...... no volume or fundamentals
I didn't think that when gold hit $1900........... should be much higher right now
I didn't think that when silver was $50...... should be much much higher right now with a much closer GS ratio.
I'm wrong a LOT!
 
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#27
I compare the current cryptocurrency market to the .com bubble of the late 90s. The idea of internet commerce created a lot of imagination, and a lot of momentum chasing. Made for a pretty nasty mess when that bubble burst. And I think there is a lot of momentum chasing in the crypto market today. Might be a mess when it does burst.

But then remember...the .com era gave us Amazon, eBay, PayPal, Google...and it fundamentally transformed the way we do business. Online brokerages, online banking, online commerce in general. Would it have been wrong to buy Amazon in 1999 at 80-some dollars per share, knowing it would drop to $6 in mid-2001? What if you still had that $80 Amazon stock today?

But for every Amazon, there were a hundred pets.com. There are a buttload of cryptocurrencies right now, and they won't all be successes. Most will be failures. But there will be the Amazon and Google in the bunch...and cryptocurrencies in general will alter the way we do business.
 

FunnyMoney

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#28
...they won't all be successes. Most will be failures. But there will be the Amazon and Google in the bunch...and cryptocurrencies in general will alter the way we do business.
Cyrpto technology may alter the way business is done but the value of the underlying instrument used to transfer funds in those business dealings doesn't need to be above a certain price and the price of that instrument doesn't change the underlying technology being utilized.

BTC could be $4 and the platform would still operate mostly the same. The value of these instruments is not a result of their supporting platforms or business changing technologies. In addition, the big moves in price (extreme valuation changes) actually make their supporting business ideas less advantageous. Investors don't recognize these points currently... currently.
 

Joe King

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#29
BTC could be $4 and the platform would still operate mostly the same.
Yes, the blockchain would function the same, but with only 16.7 million btc in existence, a $4 price would limit it's usefulness. It's no different than gold, in that at current price there simply isn't enough to use in all transactions. The price would have to increase substantially. Same with btc.
Just to have 5% of World GDP, btc would need to have a $300,000 valuation.
 

FunnyMoney

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#31
Yes, the blockchain would function the same, but with only 16.7 million btc in existence, a $4 price would limit it's usefulness. It's no different than gold, in that at current price there simply isn't enough to use in all transactions. The price would have to increase substantially. Same with btc.
Just to have 5% of World GDP, btc would need to have a $300,000 valuation.

Well yes, that is true. You would need to go out and buy other people's BTC (or borrow them for a little while) to use in the transaction but that is how any money works anyway (if you don't already have enough money, you'll need to work to get some more or some way get some before using it).

That doesn't change the fact that the mechanisms in play to be able to use it as a medium of exchange is still the same regardless the price.
Medium of exchange is the key in that spin on things and since BTC is undergoing a valuation determination based on speculation on future use as a medium of exchange instead of really being needed as a medium currently, that situation you describe doesn't really exist. Not that many people are buying cars today with a BTC only transaction, although thousands are doing so with other mediums around the globe.

In addition to that, the use as a medium of exchange tech behind BTC is freeware and can be duplicated (already there's a thousand other choices for blockchain transaction possibilities and more coming out every day). So in that light, there is also no need for BTC to be valued at anything above 4 cents, let alone 4 dollars or 20k!

Most people don't understand finance, markets, computers, nor this technology. This is why there is so much confusion and it is easy for people to present a case for $20k or $1M per BTC. But when you scientifically break apart the details, you find that all of these reasons are actually FALSE (and sorry Joe, your reason is also FALSE). If one day, you absolutely MUST have BTC to buy food or whatever you need and it's the same state around the globe and there's no other choices, then you would be right at that time).

I did not go into all the economic and math details in this post, but just touching the surface, so I hope you'll think about if for a while, which if you do, I think you will see what I mean. If not, let me know what is missing or where you see my analysis as incorrect.

Thanks for your post to open up this subject more. -FM
 

Joe King

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#32
Well yes, that is true. You would need to go out and buy other people's BTC (or borrow them for a little while) to use in the transaction but that is how any money works anyway (if you don't already have enough money, you'll need to work to get some more or some way get some before using it).
Buying, or even borrowing other peoples btc in order to pay your own bills would only serve to drive the price up. Because how do you propose that you could buy anyone else's btc to use to pay your bill if they don't want to sell? Offer more, that's how. Ie: bid the price up, and when millions of people do that, we get big price increases.



In addition to that, the use as a medium of exchange tech behind BTC is freeware and can be duplicated (already there's a thousand other choices for blockchain transaction possibilities and more coming out every day). So in that light, there is also no need for BTC to be valued at anything above 4 cents, let alone 4 dollars or 20k!
That's like saying if you can't find enough dollars to pay your bills, just send 'em some Mexican Peso's. They all count the same, right?

Having different crypto's is the same as having multiple national currencies in the World. If your debt is in bitcoins, they're not going to want Mooncoins as payment. You'd have to sell your Mooncoins for bitcoins (bid the price of btc up) in order to get them to pay your bill with.

Just like if you owed Euro's but only held Peso's, You'd have to buy Euro's.


Most people don't understand finance, markets, computers, nor this technology. This is why there is so much confusion and it is easy for people to present a case for $20k or $1M per BTC. But when you scientifically break apart the details, you find that all of these reasons are actually FALSE (and sorry Joe, your reason is also FALSE). If one day, you absolutely MUST have BTC to buy food or whatever you need and it's the same state around the globe and there's no other choices, then you would be right at that time).
The case for $1m btc is if it captures the portion of gdp to justify it being that high.
Edited to add: I'd think it a great thing if all International trade were conducted in btc or some other crypto.
 

Goldhedge

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#33
Shortstack, I'm more than likely the wrong person to ask. With that said, I'll give you some tips that may help you decide. Start by looking at the top 50 alts on coin market cap. Pay attention to circulating/total supply. You don't really want too low CS unless you like high volatility, and you don't want too high either because it takes so much for the price to move. My personal sweet spot is between 100mill and 400mill. Don't get me wrong, I also like the "good" one with lower supply like LTC. Then look at the charts and find the best entry. I look for at least a 60% retracement from the previous ATH as a good entry point. Check their websites and research the whitepapers, team, roadmap. Make an informed investment. 30k boocoo dollahs

If you are interested in higher risk coins, PM me and good luck to you!
What is 'coin market cap'?

How about posting a list of all the coins available from 'low' risk to 'high'?

Also, how do you purchase cryptos? Can't invest using the stock market can you??


also what about keeping your crypto safe? I read recently where the guys blockchain was stolen off his computer. Put the alphanumeric on a flash drive... write down on paper??
 

Joe King

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#34
Coin Market Cap

That'll list the top 100 by market capitilization. Or there is an option to "view all"if you want to see the full list. You can arrange by name, price, quantity or cap.

You can buy on an exchange. For example, www.bittrex.com Make an account, fund it, and start trading. Or there are many other exchanges.
 

FunnyMoney

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#35
...how do you propose that you could buy anyone else's btc to use to pay your bill if they don't want to sell? Offer more, that's how. Ie: bid the price up, and when millions of people do that, we get big price increases.

That's like saying if you can't find enough dollars to pay your bills, just send 'em some Mexican Peso's. They all count the same, right?

Having different crypto's is the same as having multiple national currencies in the World. If your debt is in bitcoins, they're not going to want Mooncoins as payment. You'd have to sell your Mooncoins for bitcoins (bid the price of btc up) in order to get them to pay your bill with.

Just like if you owed Euro's but only held Peso's, You'd have to buy Euro's.

The case for $1m btc is if it captures the portion of gdp to justify it being that high...
Hi Joe,

The errors in the above statements are difficult to explain, but I'll try. What is going on is that you are looking at price as if it was a "store of wealth" or a set intrinsic value thing. But in this case, price is a relative thing, what we should be really talking about is BTC value vs. FRN value or about the value of BTC vs. the desire of a car seller to get some value for the car to be sold.
When BTC goes up against FRNs, isn't that the same as the FRN going down based in BTC?

You are making an assumption with these statements which is an incorrect assumption.
For example, you said, "if you owned Euro's but only held Peso's, You'd have to buy Euro's," but what's missing is why do you need Euros? Is it because the thing you want to buy is only sold in Euros? There is the issue.

Let's walk through an example...
Currently, the seller of a cow is willing to take either Euros, FRNs, or Pesos for his cow. But you only have a few MoonCoins which are worth only a few cents. So youre MoonCoins need to go way up in value for you to buy the cow, or you will need to get a loan or work for a few more years to purchase more MoonCoins so you can afford to buy the other money which the cow owner wants in exchange for it. Or you could go to the cow owner and ask why not sell the cow in some other medium? The owner might say I need to buy feed for my other cows and feed sellers don't take those other mediums. The owner might say that the last time he took some obscure, not used much medium for a cow, by the time he went to the feed store the price of that medium had lost value vs. the value of feed, so he doesn't want to do that again.
This is the current situation we are in in today's modern world. If you only bought cows and if you could work for feed then you could take the feed directly to the owner to buy the cow. But that is not the modern way transactions are done.
Today, the un-backed, non-intrisic value mediums in use are already established. BTC is just another one to add to the list but worse. Why worse? Because it's value isn't based on it's use as a medium but on the speculation of its future use.

Cyrptos are actually a step backward away from honest money, but that is another topic, for another thread. Intrinsic value (where the intrinsic value is not solely based on the supply-demand need as a medium of exchange) is important for honest money to work. 5000 years of history has shown this and the Cyrptos will either live to take us into the "electronic based" tyranny stage or they will end up valued near zero, their only required value.
 

FunnyMoney

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#36
Cyrptos are actually a step backward away from honest money, but that is another topic, for another thread. Intrinsic value (where the intrinsic value is not solely based on the supply-demand need as a medium of exchange) is important for honest money to work. 5000 years of history has shown this and the Cyrptos will either live to take us into the "electronic based" tyranny stage or they will end up valued near zero, their only required value.

Let me continue with that a bit further...

If the cyrptos become big and adopted as money the same way as paper and electronic based FIAT is today then it will be because of one of the following reasons:
The gov'ts adopt it to use instead of , or in addition to their today's fiat money.
Or because the illusion of value among the masses turns to this crypto illusion instead of today's paper money illusion. But do not be conned, the cyrpto illusion as money is still an illusion. The blockchain and the fixed quantity do not change the illusion and still allow for the famous quote to be in full force: "He who controls the money (or in this case the methods of electronic exchange)... ... ... you know the rest.
 

#48Fan

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#37
What is 'coin market cap'?

How about posting a list of all the coins available from 'low' risk to 'high'?

Also, how do you purchase cryptos? Can't invest using the stock market can you??


also what about keeping your crypto safe? I read recently where the guys blockchain was stolen off his computer. Put the alphanumeric on a flash drive... write down on paper??
1. coinmarketcap.com is where you can go to research the cyrpto market.

2. I am not capable to list all 1500+ cryptos (by risk especially).

3. You can use Coinbase to buy BTC, ETH, LTC, or BCH with fiat. You could also search your area for a nearby BTC atm. If you use Coinbase, they will need your information and depending how you buy, they will also need your baking information. I can tell you that I've used their services before and haven't had a problem. Of course, now I am in their system. The fees are quite high for Coinbase and atms. Transaction fees are ridiculous for BTC right now, so I would suggest buying LTC if you are just wanting to trade. If you want to hold BTC, then you will just have to bite the bullet.

Exchanges that I have used with no problems are Bittrex, Binance, and Cryptopia. I used, but didn't really care for Poloniex. Let me know if you are interested in Binance because I can send you a referral link :p

Wallets, right now, are tricky. If you go with Coinbase, you will get a wallet with them when you purchase. Remember, the wallets you use on Coinbase and all of the exchanges are controlled by them, not you. Kind of like ordering PM's and not taking delivery. A good private wallet for BTC is Electrum. LTC has their own wallet, and the standard for ETH is myetherwallet. I don't know about a wallet for BCH. If you start trading the lesser known cryptos, you may have to search around and ask what wallet is good to use. If you buy an ERC20 token (tokens on the ETH blockchain) then you can also store these on myetherwallet.

Hope that helps a tad at least.
 

pay dirt

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#38
The wallets discussed above are called lite wallets. Do not keep crypto in an exchange, best way is a hard wallet(like a thumb drive) made by Trezor or Ledger. No third party, can not be hacked and is portable. Be careful taking it out on the boat fishing...
 

#48Fan

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#39
The wallets discussed above are called lite wallets. Do not keep crypto in an exchange, best way is a hard wallet(like a thumb drive) made by Trezor or Ledger. No third party, can not be hacked and is portable. Be careful taking it out on the boat fishing...
Yeah, I did not mention these. These are the most secure way to store your coins. I believe you can find them between $50-$100. Even if you lose it, as long as you have your seed keys safely stored somewhere, you can buy another one and recover your coins.
 

FunnyMoney

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Silver Miner
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
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#40
1. ...

Wallets, right now, are tricky. If you go with Coinbase, you will get a wallet with them when you purchase. Remember, the wallets you use on Coinbase and all of the exchanges are controlled by them, not you. Kind of like ordering PM's and not taking delivery. A good private wallet for BTC is Electrum. ....

It's nice to have someone clear up the details. Tricky indeed.

What again was wrong with FRNs under my couch and Western Union? Oh, yeah, I remember "electronic money inside a distributed blockchain technology inside the cloud," so cool.

Backed by nothing, worth actually nothing, and no paper and no ink. The Fed probably likes it a lot more than everyone thinks. I'm just now waiting for the Fed to install blockchain technology into their FRNs.