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Need some advice on removing two screws.

gringott

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#1
I picked up a turbocharger that a guy screwed up by stripping two screw heads that held the wastegate bracket. Basically, he said the wastegate got stuck and he tried to remove the gate & bracket assembly and stripped the heads. This turbo is unobtainium and I was happy to get it. However, I don't want to screw it up.
Here are two pictures.





Advice on removal is what I am looking for.

Thanks for your help.
 

gringott

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#3
Didn't think of that Uglytruth. I don't weld or have a TIG welder.
I guess I could take it to a machine shop and have it done.
 

Uglytruth

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#4
Your words "This turbo is unobtainium" that means you don't mess it up doing shade tree crap. Take it to a weld shop, someone that does race cars, bikes etc..... 30 minute job, have the sockets or whatever already. Cost ya $40-$50 and you will have your "unobtainium turbo" & the unmolested bracket. 2 new bolts & you are good to go.
 

gringott

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#5
The bracket was already molested but that is beside the point.
I will be transferring another bracket and wastegate to the turbo.
I will certainly look into doing it as you suggested.
Thank you for your input.
 

Twisted

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#6
Get a EZ out/screw extractor set. Squirt some pb blaster or kroil on it first and let it sit awhile to soak in.
 

glockngold

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#7
I assume you have already tried the correct torx socket with a hand impact?
Next would be a turbo socket/twisty, but looks like maybe not enough clearance to fit.
The other fellas have good ideas as well.
If you try the easy out as Twisted suggests, make sure you center punch before you start to drill.
 

southfork

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#8
A very small sanding tool from a dremel tool set will clean out those pings
 

ErrosionOfAccord

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#9
Real mechanic would weld a nut on the top. Shade tree would go buy a a a $20 dollar screw extractor kit.
 

TAEZZAR

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#10
Get a EZ out/screw extractor set. Squirt some pb blaster or kroil on it first and let it sit awhile to soak in.
That was my first thought, BUT I like Ugly's idea better.
 

newmisty

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#11
Didn't think of that Uglytruth. I don't weld or have a TIG welder.
I guess I could take it to a machine shop and have it done.
That.

Worst case they will drill it out, plug and tap. Had to do that with an aluminum bodied water pump.
 

gringott

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#12
I assume you have already tried the correct torx socket with a hand impact?
Next would be a turbo socket/twisty, but looks like maybe not enough clearance to fit.
The other fellas have good ideas as well.
If you try the easy out as Twisted suggests, make sure you center punch before you start to drill.
It is as I received it, I have not tried a darn thing yet. Not even tested.

I asked because I don't want to make a bad thing worse. If it was something I could easily replace, I would try "stuff".

I have hunted far and wide for one of these, not so easy to find.

So far I am liking the welding the correct bit or a nut on top. That seems the least possible destructive.
 

newmisty

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#13
It is as I received it, I have not tried a darn thing yet. Not even tested.

I asked because I don't want to make a bad thing worse. If it was something I could easily replace, I would try "stuff".

I have hunted far and wide for one of these, not so easy to find.

So far I am liking the welding the correct bit or a nut on top. That seems the least possible destructive.
If you enjoy getting frustrated, dirty and wasting time and money, try your luck with the fandangled extractors. If you value your time and blood pressure, take it to a machine shop. Also, there's a reason they are stuck and since we don't know the efficacy of the threads the machine shop route is the most assured route and cheap insurance. You'll likely head there anyway after fighting with shade tree operations.
Lastly, it is well advised to have a good rapport with a local machine shop.

Regarding the welding a "nut"(star drive??) I'd only recommend that on a larger fastener such as a stripped rear end drain plug (Mine's still in use as such)
 

newmisty

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#15
*Fill plug. Ain't got no drain plug. Photo1021.jpg
 

DodgebyDave

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#16
Now you know why a good mechanic charges an arm and a leg to fix others fuck ups. It ain't easy being Jesus!

Those are called "Torx".

You are going to need some heat, time and patience. You weld to the heads of those screws and you'll just break the heads off.

1 mini torch set.

1 allen wrench of the correct size

1 can of PBlaster

It would help if I made a good video about this but I'm too lazy. Step one is to heat the area AROUND the screw. Not the screw. You are going to do this in cycles. Spray the area with stuff. heat until starting to dry, watching for the PBlaster to start to "boil" at the thread. That means you are getting it where it needs to be. This heating and cooling, expansion and contraction, is going to break any mechanical/electrolytic bond on the fastener. We don't know or care why it's stuck. That's trivia. My technique takes care of both.

Step 2 is that after a few cycles, you want to heat up the head of the torx a little. We are going to take a strategically sized Alen Head socket "Most likely a metric" (based on exp of doing this) and tap it into the torx points........then immediately quench that thing with anything except beer. Beer is for drinking.

Step three, using the appropriate 3/8th drive twisting device remove the torx head cap screw
 

Irons

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#17
THIS stuff is exactly why I am nervous every time I work on something on my old S10 that I cannot take off and replace myself. Like, oh, a transmission. Or the frame mounts a shock absorber bolts to.

One of those rusty old screws breaks off at the head and I am fecked. Then I have to bring the mess to someone like Dodger and throw hundred dollar bills on the table until he agrees to bail me out.

I hope it all works out better than you even hoped for Gringott!
 
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Uglytruth

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#18
The problem with heating & cooling is the heat. Turbo's use tight tolerance precision bearings & seals. Yes, turbo's run hot.

Another way because the bracket is junk is the grind the heads off, pop off the bracket & you will have two very short studs sticking out that you can soak, try vise grips, weld to or drill out. Drilling will be tough because it will take a wile to get it clamped straight, flat etc....
 

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#20
Join an auto forum that relates to your vehicle
You'll get about 100,000 ideas.

BF
 

gringott

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#21
Join an auto forum that relates to your vehicle
You'll get about 100,000 ideas.

BF
Might be true, but my car didn't come with turbos. This turbo is rare even on those who added turbos.
 

gringott

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#22
What about drilling out and retapping?
I suspect this will happen in the end. My past experience echos what some others have said, once you have enough leverage to break the bolt free, the head usually comes off.
 

bb28

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#23
My regular driver is a 1984 Mercedes. Many bolts have been drilled out. I would say just go for it. Most times you won't need to re-tap, but you can use a thread chaser to finish up. If you hire a welder or machine shop, you will be depriving yourself of investing in the tools and time to learn what you need to do next time.

bb
 

newmisty

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#24
THIS stuff is exactly why I am nervous every time I work on something on my old S10 that I cannot take off and replace myself. Like, oh, a transmission. Or the frame mounts a shock absorber bolts to.

One of those rusty old screws breaks off at the head and I am fecked. Then I have to bring the mess to someone like Dodger and throw hundred dollar bills on the table until he agrees to bail me out.
Yep. Me too. It's the worst.
 

newmisty

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#25
Now you know why a good mechanic charges an arm and a leg to fix others fuck ups. It ain't easy being Jesus!

Those are called "Torx".

You are going to need some heat, time and patience. You weld to the heads of those screws and you'll just break the heads off.

1 mini torch set.

1 allen wrench of the correct size

1 can of PBlaster

It would help if I made a good video about this but I'm too lazy. Step one is to heat the area AROUND the screw. Not the screw. You are going to do this in cycles. Spray the area with stuff. heat until starting to dry, watching for the PBlaster to start to "boil" at the thread. That means you are getting it where it needs to be. This heating and cooling, expansion and contraction, is going to break any mechanical/electrolytic bond on the fastener. We don't know or care why it's stuck. That's trivia. My technique takes care of both.

Step 2 is that after a few cycles, you want to heat up the head of the torx a little. We are going to take a strategically sized Alen Head socket "Most likely a metric" (based on exp of doing this) and tap it into the torx points........then immediately quench that thing with anything except beer. Beer is for drinking.

Step three, using the appropriate 3/8th drive twisting device remove the torx head cap screw
Shoot, that right there's worth a shekel.
SHEK.jpg
 

ttazzman

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#26
...lotta good ways to do the job mentioned here..........if i welded it i would only do it with a extra socket and a tig welder for sure.....at my house it would be DDs way...since i dont own a tig welder....or i would just drill it and ezeout it .......last resort totally drill it and helicoil thread repair it.......my experience is that in aluminum Helicoil repair kits are much stronger than retaping....
 

gringott

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#27
Ok, first I went to a machine shop, been in business 40 years, guy was skeptical when I asked him, but told me to bring it in. I took it in this morning and he hemmed and hawed. He referred me to several places, one being a machine shop I have used before on the other side of town, a couple of older biker guys. I went directly there. They took a look, and said, give us a couple of minutes. They took it in the back, came back in less than five minutes and said, you need a new turbo.

Then they laughed and said both bolts are out. They refused to charge me even when I just offered to buy them breakfast. So I went and bought myself breakfast. Don't know exactly what they did but from the looks of things a shot of PB Blaster and a proper tool. Nice guys.

Thanks for all the help guys.
 

Uglytruth

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#28
Sometimes life gives you roses. Buy a lottery ticket today & them a box of donuts or a gift card or something. That $20 will pay off big "next time".
 

newmisty

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#29
Ok, first I went to a machine shop, been in business 40 years, guy was skeptical when I asked him, but told me to bring it in. I took it in this morning and he hemmed and hawed. He referred me to several places, one being a machine shop I have used before on the other side of town, a couple of older biker guys. I went directly there. They took a look, and said, give us a couple of minutes. They took it in the back, came back in less than five minutes and said, you need a new turbo.

Then they laughed and said both bolts are out. They refused to charge me even when I just offered to buy them breakfast. So I went and bought myself breakfast. Don't know exactly what they did but from the looks of things a shot of PB Blaster and a proper tool. Nice guys.

Thanks for all the help guys.
Attaboy! And no boiling penetrating oil in your eye and your knuckles are still fully intact. Smarter not harder.
 

newmisty

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#31