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No Ammo....

Rusty Shackelford

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Local Armslist guy claims to have a case of 9mm (2000 rounds) for $700. Armslist started to charge for a membership so I don't participate in that, but I am tempted to see if this deal is legit. Part of me would want to piece it out and sell for a profit, but then part of me says this shortage is going to be around for a long time and to keep it for myself.
I was always told that a case was 1000 rds.
 

Rusty Shackelford

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That's what I though. It seemed like too good of a deal at today's prices. I wonder if anyone else is going to fall for it and then be severely disappointed when they get open the case.
And thats a shame....the 2A community does not need unsavory members try to get over on other 2A supporters....we are supposed to be "friends" even if we have never met face to face.
 

dozer99

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Rusty, I agree. I just had an interaction with a member of a gun forum that was selling a older eastern block pistol for a very inflated price and wanted to trade for 5.56 at pre-shortage prices. I agreed if he lowered the price on his pistol to the pre-shortage price as well. (I think his head exploded due to the logic of my argument).
 

Aurumag

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With Ag @ $24.65 & 9mm @ .60 per rd, the 9mm to Ag Ratio is approx 41/1. Fun Fact.
I've been thinking about this lately:

Due to the current situation, Au and Ag are coming down, and ammo is going up.

People are re-prioritizing their assets.
 

Tbonz

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I've been thinking about this lately:

Due to the current situation, Au and Ag are coming down, and ammo is going up.

People are re-prioritizing their assets.

I was actually talking about this same subject with a buddy of mine.

Could have paid for my kids college if I would have allocated earlier.

.223 going for $1/rnd now, would have cleaned up.
 

TomD

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I can't believe that more of you don't think of ammo in terms of reloading. It's not hard and doesn't require a huge capitol investment for equipment.

For components, assuming you save brass, you need powder, primers and bullets.

For .223/5.56, the cost is

bullets (varies of course) average around $.25/per

primers, rare and expensive right now for some reason, but usually average around $.02 (two cents) each. Reloaders tend to lay in huge stocks of primers when things are "normal".

powder, around $30/pound, 7000 grains per pound and .223 rounds average around 25 grains per round for 52 grain bullets = around $0.11/ round (11 cents)

So assuming you have brass, you can make your own 5.66mm ammo for around $.38 per round. Pistol bullets are cheaper and .338 Lapua Mag rounds are more. But the best thing about reloading is that the loads are tuned for your weapon and are more accurate. When you get into extreme accuracy rifle contests, reloads are close to universal and it isn't because they are cheaper.

Plus there is something very satisfying about producing your own ammunition.
 

GOLDBRIX

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primers, rare and expensive right now for some reason, but usually average around $.02 (two cents) each. Reloaders tend to lay in huge stocks of primers when things are "normal".
BINGO!
Like buying PMs it was better to get started YESTERDAY ( Wayback).
 

ttazzman

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I can't believe that more of you don't think of ammo in terms of reloading. It's not hard and doesn't require a huge capitol investment for equipment.

For components, assuming you save brass, you need powder, primers and bullets.

For .223/5.56, the cost is

bullets (varies of course) average around $.25/per

primers, rare and expensive right now for some reason, but usually average around $.02 (two cents) each. Reloaders tend to lay in huge stocks of primers when things are "normal".

powder, around $30/pound, 7000 grains per pound and .223 rounds average around 25 grains per round for 52 grain bullets = around $0.11/ round (11 cents)

So assuming you have brass, you can make your own 5.66mm ammo for around $.38 per round. Pistol bullets are cheaper and .338 Lapua Mag rounds are more. But the best thing about reloading is that the loads are tuned for your weapon and are more accurate. When you get into extreme accuracy rifle contests, reloads are close to universal and it isn't because they are cheaper.

Plus there is something very satisfying about producing your own ammunition.
for me its just something i never got into ........i try to buy my ammo at price lows....IE most of my 223 was stocked at ~.30 a rnd so there is no advantage in cost ...yes on a couple of calibers of coarse......and i am a "hate to rely on others kind of guy" so i just keep large stocks and i would still rely on primers...powder ...supplies .....as far as accuracy i shoot 1moa or better on factory.... (why setup to build it if you have 100yrs worth of supply on hand)

i do cringe everytime i buy rare ammo IE 7mmRUM .....i do keep my cases incase i ever decide to take it up...

i do think i would enjoy it ....but i think i would want a mentor and i am just not that social anymore.....
 

Unca Walt

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I can't believe that more of you don't think of ammo in terms of reloading. It's not hard and doesn't require a huge capitol investment for equipment.

For components, assuming you save brass, you need powder, primers and bullets.

For .223/5.56, the cost is

bullets (varies of course) average around $.25/per

primers, rare and expensive right now for some reason, but usually average around $.02 (two cents) each. Reloaders tend to lay in huge stocks of primers when things are "normal".

powder, around $30/pound, 7000 grains per pound and .223 rounds average around 25 grains per round for 52 grain bullets = around $0.11/ round (11 cents)

So assuming you have brass, you can make your own 5.66mm ammo for around $.38 per round. Pistol bullets are cheaper and .338 Lapua Mag rounds are more. But the best thing about reloading is that the loads are tuned for your weapon and are more accurate. When you get into extreme accuracy rifle contests, reloads are close to universal and it isn't because they are cheaper.

Plus there is something very satisfying about producing your own ammunition.
Yowza. I useta do reloading for .45, 9mm, .357, 12ga. This was back when you could just stop at about any gas station and volunteer to carry off a bunch of old wheel weights. I cast all my own bullets from wheel weights.
 

CopperSilverGold

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for me its just something i never got into ........i try to buy my ammo at price lows....IE most of my 223 was stocked at ~.30 a rnd so there is no advantage in cost ...yes on a couple of calibers of coarse......and i am a "hate to rely on others kind of guy" so i just keep large stocks and i would still rely on primers...powder ...supplies .....as far as accuracy i shoot 1moa or better on factory.... (why setup to build it if you have 100yrs worth of supply on hand)

i do cringe everytime i buy rare ammo IE 7mmRUM .....i do keep my cases incase i ever decide to take it up...

i do think i would enjoy it ....but i think i would want a mentor and i am just not that social anymore.....
Same here. One is a space consideration for me. Two is that I wonder how long it will take to hit the break even point.

Tom mentioned the primers are $0.02/each in normal times. How much are they now? His $0.38/each cost was calculated using this figure. So what is the true cost now, $0.45/each? Is is worth going through all that trouble to save $0.05/round (using the $100 cost for a 200-round box at the local store that I mentioned yesterday)? For some it makes sense, but for me it isn't worth the trouble.
 

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I recently ordered a couple cases of 7.62 x 39 Tula, since it is still (relatively) reasonable at under 40 cents a round, and just in case it is no longer available/banned at some point . I haven’t bought any other ammo for the last few years, glad I don’t have to pay the going rate for .22 or 9mm these days.
 

TomD

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Tom mentioned the primers are $0.02/each in normal times. How much are they now?
There's a primer shortage going right now, good luck on finding any. This is the 2nd shortage in the last 10 years and the 3rd I've seen since I started loading about 35 years ago. Anyone who's been loading for long quickly learns to stockpile primers.

I just checked stock for Powder Valley, one of the largest ammo and reloading component dealers in the nation and found that they have NOTHING at all to sell, no primers, no powder, no brass, no loaded ammunition, nothing! Actually, they have black powder. In all my life, I've never seen this or anything close.

I didn't notice before now, since I now live 350 miles from my gun club, I don't get up there much. Plus I haven't needed to buy any components since I got a 6.5 Grendel upper for an AR. But I was planning to rebarrel one of my bolt rifles in 6.5 Creedmore. Fat lot of good that would do if I couldn't get any rounds for it.
 

dozer99

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We're still seeing a small'ish amount of primers show up every couple of weeks at our two big box sporting goods stores. Last time it was 10 Large pistol and 20 Large rifle (half mag and half regular LRP). A few weeks before that was the same only SRP/SPP.
 

Aurumag

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Yowza. I useta do reloading for .45, 9mm, .357, 12ga. This was back when you could just stop at about any gas station and volunteer to carry off a bunch of old wheel weights. I cast all my own bullets from wheel weights.
I recently scored about 60 pounds of lead fishing weights for $5 at an estate sale, and I have probably another hundred pounds of scrap lead laying around.

I suppose that would provide less than a dozen projectiles for your cannon.
 

CopperSilverGold

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Local Cabela's had a ton of 9mm (and other calibers this morning). They opened at 8am and were still stocking the shelves. I would estimate that they had 8,000 - 10,000 total 9mm rounds or more. Within 10 minutes of opening, all of the 200-round 9mm Winchester boxes were gone. The Federal 9mm boxes were flying off the shelves. The prices were $0.26/round for steel case and $0.28 to $0.30/round for brass target loads. JHP's were in the $0.80-$0.85/round price.

They also had 380 auto, 45 ACP, and 357 Magnum (1-2 small cases worth of each), but no 40 S&W. They also had probably 100 boxes of 223. Everyone purchasing 9mm was buying the 5-box limit and a couple of people I talked to didn't think at all that this was a sign of things starting to return to normal.

I was that side of town again about an hour ago and stopped in just to see what was left. Nothing at all. Guns are still flying off the shelves there, too.
 
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CopperSilverGold

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There's a primer shortage going right now, good luck on finding any. This is the 2nd shortage in the last 10 years and the 3rd I've seen since I started loading about 35 years ago. Anyone who's been loading for long quickly learns to stockpile primers.
Not even on the secondary market? I am guessing that a lot of the ammo I mentioned directly above this post will end up on Armslist at inflated prices. I have never looked for primers there since I don't reload, but am curious how the secondary market is for this.
 

TomD

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Not even on the secondary market? I am guessing that a lot of the ammo I mentioned directly above this post will end up on Armslist at inflated prices. I have never looked for primers there since I don't reload, but am curious how the secondary market is for this.
Well yeah, on the secondary as long as you're willing to pay 6x the price. I guess that would be doable assuming you only bought 100 at a time just to cover your immediate needs.

Sometime around 1990, I was in a Sports Authority store in their gun dept where they sold reloading stuff. They had primers which usually sold at the time for around $.01 each. The primers were in a display case in bricks of 1000, each of which was marked $1.00. I asked the guy behind the counter if I could look at one of the bricks so he opened the case and handed me one. I told the guy that his price was mistaken and took one of the 100 primer packs out of the brick and told him that this pack is what is supposed to be a dollar. He replied "no'', the bricks were a dollar. I said "fine, I'll take everything you have" and walked out with around 40 thousand CCI primers of every type. I still have a bunch, mostly in large pistol magnum and large rifle magnum. In my heavy competition days, I'd go through 5000 a year, mostly small rifle. Usually Federal 205M's. I lucked into several cases of Wolf small rifle magnum primers for around $85/case (5000) 8 or so years back. They work real well with AR rounds and 30 BR competition rounds.

I've never heard of primers going bad though powder damn sure does.
 

CopperSilverGold

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Anyone having any luck finding ammo? It's been a dry spell the last couple of weeks. Checked out the local Armslist page and people are now asking $0.70 to $1.00 per 9mm target round. The guy selling for $1.00/round admits his price is expensive but says that's his price and doesn't mind holding on to it in case things go to hell in a handbasket. All I saw recently was some 30-06 and 762x51 rifle ammo at Farm and Fleet.
 

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I ordered a couple cases of 7.62 x 39 about a month ago for 39 cents per round, I felt like that was the only thing I was a bit light on in my personal inventory. Today, the place I bought that from (J&G Sales) is at 68 cents a round...
Ah yes, capitalism or, how to gouge out new prices when things are in short supply.
 

Son of Gloin

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Ah yes, capitalism or, how to gouge out new prices when things are in short supply.
I’ll disagree with you on that, just a bit, engineer. If I personally have ammo and I’m only willing to part with it at $1 a round and not a penny less, is it price gouging? It’s my ammo. I bought it, I own it. Should it not be my business concerning it’s parting price?

I buy and sell on eBay a bit, just doing my book collecting hobby. Sometimes I see people selling books that I believe are way overpriced. Like, what I believe to be a $50 book being listed at $2-300. Crazy, but then again, it’s their book. They have a right to say, “I’m willing to part with this book for the listed price, not any less.”

Should we extend the same ownership/selling price rights to larger businesses? If an item is scarce, people would buy it all up, if it’s cheap, then there is no more for anyone else to buy. If it’s more expensive, they won’t buy and hoard it. Just thinking out loud. What do you think?
 

CopperSilverGold

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I’ll disagree with you on that, just a bit, engineer. If I personally have ammo and I’m only willing to part with it at $1 a round and not a penny less, is it price gouging? It’s my ammo. I bought it, I own it. Should it not be my business concerning it’s parting price?

I buy and sell on eBay a bit, just doing my book collecting hobby. Sometimes I see people selling books that I believe are way overpriced. Like, what I believe to be a $50 book being listed at $2-300. Crazy, but then again, it’s their book. They have a right to say, “I’m willing to part with this book for the listed price, not any less.”

Should we extend the same ownership/selling price rights to larger businesses? If an item is scarce, people would buy it all up, if it’s cheap, then there is no more for anyone else to buy. If it’s more expensive, they won’t buy and hoard it. Just thinking out loud. What do you think?
I agree with you here. I'm busting my butt trying to find ammo, sometimes driving a couple hundred miles or more just so I can be able to go out and shoot. Some people want to pay retail without doing the legwork and without thinking of the hidden costs that go into the process of acquiring ammo.
 

Unca Walt

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There's also the CODB. Cost Of Doing Bidness: If you have something that suddenly has restricted supply, that means YOUR re-supply for your business is threatened. YOU have to stretch your limited stock to cover your own enterprise.

Nevertheless -- it is often not realized the difference between the above and thieving SOB toilet paper rangers.
 

CopperSilverGold

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There's also the CODB. Cost Of Doing Bidness: If you have something that suddenly has restricted supply, that means YOUR re-supply for your business is threatened. YOU have to stretch your limited stock to cover your own enterprise.

Nevertheless -- it is often not realized the difference between the above and thieving SOB toilet paper rangers.
Yes, this as well. Supply is very restricted. You might luck out and stumble across a small shipment that hit a retailer like Farm & Fleet or Cabela's, but that's almost like hitting the lottery these days. So if I really want to shoot, I will have to pay Armslist or online retailer prices and pay at least $0.60/round for 9mm. I wish I had bought more when I had the chance last year, but that's life.
 

Son of Gloin

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It pays to “panic early and avoid the rush,” as they say. Get yourself a hoard of ammo, while it’s cheap, if you can. We’ve had plenty of warnings over the years. The only ammo I neglected to hoard up was 38/357 rounds, so I was forced to pay a little extra to acquire an amount that made me feel more at ease. Found some high quality stuff, too on Gunbroker, but not at an awful price. Luckily, as a rule, you don’t have to worry about your wheel gun having ammo reliability issues, so you won’t need to test it as much.
 

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Sometimes it's nice to have a friend named Igor. He's from Serbia and quite the source of information and insight. His suggestion to me a few years ago was to buy a few of the odd-ball calibers and get cases when cheap or overstock. I was kinda shocked at how often that happened... it's nice to have friends. I'd hate to pay today's prices.
 

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My 25 and 32 acp are looking good as is the 9x18 stuff...
 

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I know that I have more ammo on hand than I will ever personally need. I didn’t necessarily buy extra thinking I would be selling it at a profit, so much as thinking it would have far greater value in the future than it does now. It may be the ultimate barter commodity at some point, same reason for having a junk silver supply.
 

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Scored 300 rounds of ~ 150 Round Box - Winchester 5.56mm 62 Grain M855 Green Tip Lake City Ammo - WM855150 - Limit 4

Monday from SGAmmo.com. It shipped Wednesday and is on it's way. I have a few hundred miscellaneous 5.56 knocking around here including some really good match grade so I probably didn't need it, but what the hell.

SGAMMO gets it in and sells it out in hours. You would need to check in several times a day to get some. Had I waited a day I could have snagged 500 rounds of Wolf for a little more than I paid for the lake city. Ah well.


.
 

the_shootist

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Mind me asking the cost per round? It seems most times I see it pop up the are asking $1/rd or more.
Yeah, I've seen a lot of that 'buck a round' price point at a few sites out there. That's crazy for 5.56, green tip or not!
 

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I’ll disagree with you on that, just a bit, engineer. If I personally have ammo and I’m only willing to part with it at $1 a round and not a penny less, is it price gouging? It’s my ammo. I bought it, I own it. Should it not be my business concerning it’s parting price?

I buy and sell on eBay a bit, just doing my book collecting hobby. Sometimes I see people selling books that I believe are way overpriced. Like, what I believe to be a $50 book being listed at $2-300. Crazy, but then again, it’s their book. They have a right to say, “I’m willing to part with this book for the listed price, not any less.”

Should we extend the same ownership/selling price rights to larger businesses? If an item is scarce, people would buy it all up, if it’s cheap, then there is no more for anyone else to buy. If it’s more expensive, they won’t buy and hoard it. Just thinking out loud. What do you think?
I know, I get it. I understand supply chain too, but, how does it more than double in a few months...covid? Oh, millions more bought guns last year, ok, so the manufacturer has to make more, why double the price....gouging I say.
Yeah, charge what you want, thats capitalism. I thought the more they sell, like bulk pricing, you get a better deal, not with ammo, not in this environment.
I havent checked the price of brass or lead or powder...i suppose that went to the moon too.
 

Rusty Shackelford

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I know, I get it. I understand supply chain too, but, how does it more than double in a few months...covid? Oh, millions more bought guns last year, ok, so the manufacturer has to make more, why double the price....gouging I say.
Yeah, charge what you want, thats capitalism. I thought the more they sell, like bulk pricing, you get a better deal, not with ammo, not in this environment.
I havent checked the price of brass or lead or powder...i suppose that went to the moon too.

Those components have not changed much....primers on the other hand are $300 plus for a box of 1000
 

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ttazzman

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this thread popping up reminded me to look at prices and availability and do some looking around ......online prices and stocks have skyrocketed the last month....22lr at .30 a round is stupid high .....i am glad i am in good shape......im proud of my extended family my christmas "treat" was a box of 357 pistol ammo :) ........i just about got a tear......they know me LOL
 

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Mind me asking the cost per round? It seems most times I see it pop up the are asking $1/rd or more.
It was expensive as hell! Little under a buck a round after tax and shipping. Ah well, it is what it is and there is nothing available over the counter around here. I still have a lot of cheap shit to make noise with before I open one of these boxes.



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