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Rolex Watches As Investments

Uglytruth

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#2
Friend buys & sells. Tough market. Big numbers. Generational change as young don't wear them like older people. It's also seasonal. High end watches and you need more than just Rolex.
 

<SLV>

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#3
Long term investment, yes (20+ years). But only if you choose the right models. Not as easy as it sounds.

Right now steel sport versions are almost impossible to find in stock. I think the Rolex Air King 116900 is a dark horse for long term investment. Also the blue dial Milgaus with green crystal.

Tudor is coming up, as is Grand Seiko. For Tudor I like the new Pelagos with Tudor's first in-house movement. Grand Seiko with Spring Drive is pretty awesome.

Audemars Piguet and Patek Philippe wil alaways hold their values. The new AP Code 11.59 series are good picks for future classics. Patek Nautilus in steel is all the rage right now. In fact any Patek in steel is impossible to get. If you are lucky enough to get a call from the dealer that your number came up you can walk around the corner to a grey market jeweler and sell it for 50% more on the same day.

Bulgari has come on very strong in recent years with the Octo Finissimo series. The new Chronograph GMT Automatic was a GPHG winner in 2019, and it holds the record for the thinnest automatic chronograph. I think Bulgari Octos are also future classics.

BEWARE... almost every luxury watch is currently being replicated in China for about $200-$400. Seriously. These replicas are so good only an expert can spot a fake, and this requires taking the watch apart. I held a fake Rolex Submariner Date earlier this year that was in EVERY way identical to the real thing including serial numbers and engravings on the movement. It was purchased in China for $200. The buyer also picked up a complete set of boxes and manuals for $50, and this included a fake point of sale credit card receipt for the real Sub price at a Hong Kong dealer!!! After seeing this I decided I would only ever buy from an authorized dealer.

Before you buy anything do your homework for a couple years minimum.

www.hodinkee.com
 

EO 11110

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#4
considered this more than once. thanks for the thread start and comments by slv, ugly. never did the work to know anything

some other items -- old fishing gear, motorcycles, pokemon cards, early electronics that millenials will be paying up for....

a shame that we have to dabble in this crap to fight the frbny debasement of our balance sheets

sliv, ugly -- any more commentary will be greatly appreciated
 

GOLDZILLA

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#5
accutrons doing anything?
 

GOLDBRIX

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#6
If ya go will a Rolex DO NOT buy retail. Go to a reliable Pawn Shop, especially if you are anywhere close to gambling resorts. If they want a SELL have them open the back and check for "ROLEX" engraved parts.
Usually they got them for half of retail value. GET THE ROLEX DISPLAY BOX if ya can. That adds to the value if you have to resale or trade later.
Sorry SLV I didn't see your post. Good information there too.
 

Uglytruth

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#7
Make friends with auctoneers & estate sale businesses. Don't tell them what you want just buy it all as a diversion. Have a way to sell off the chum and market the high end stuff.

BTW they often have collectors items, gold & silver........ but you have to know values & the market.
 

Unca Walt

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I got a Rolex from my company. Kept it for ten years before I got completely disgusted with the POS. It was like a rotary phone compared to an i-phone. Blew $1600 getting it cleaned while I owned it. <-- TINS

Weighed a pound, kept terrible time (off by a couple of minutes a day), and cost OVER $200 PER YEAR to clean.

If I did not pay the $200+ one year... fargin watch would STOP. <-- fact

Dinky little integral magnifying bubble had tiny unreadable date. And if the minute hand was at the "3", the date was totally covered up. Month was not available.

One time, the friggin' stem was not wound in all the way (from having to do a daily reset of the right time), and I went scuba diving. The sweep second hand was pushing a bubble of salt water around. $350 for that "cleaning"!!

I sold it in frustration for a couple of $K, and for now I have a watch that:

1. Is ALWAYS accurate to the SECOND. Always.

2. Does not have to be wound, and does not have a battery; it is solar powered (just @2 min/day in sunlight = OK).

3. Tells me the day of the week, month, year. In big letters and numbers.

4. Waterproof. <-- Doesn't even have a stem.

5. It costs one fourth of ONE Rolex's "cleaning" (here's one on e-bay for fitty bucks with free shipping):


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000SSL04E?tag=duckduckgo-brave-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1


There's a shitload more the watch can do that I do not givva darn for, but the extra stuff is not a negative... I just never really need to know the current temperature in Delhi, or multi-timer stopwatch timing four horses at once, or something like counting time backwards/forwards.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Stuff like that -- the instruction book for this watch was is 185 pages!! I tossed it.

In sum, the above watch is in ALL areas totally superior to Rolex. Rolex Oyster price starts at $5,410.00

That makes a Rolex one hundred and ten times more expensive before you have to clean it.

Fargin sucker bet.
 
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hoarder

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#9
Never invest in collectables that only baby boomers will buy. You can't sell anything to dead people.
 

Stonewall

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#10
Patek Philippe 18k pocket watches from the early 1900s in perfect condition are available for half the cost of a stainless Submariner.

They often contain 40 or so grams of 18k gold and are very rare but available at low cost considering what you get.

There have been less than one million Patek watches ever produced in history.

https://www.chrono24.com/patekphili...ellow-gold-hinge-pocket-watch--id15674534.htm
 

oldgaranddad

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#11
My take on investing on the whole watch thing is it will only pay off when the millennial generation matures enough (hopefully) and starts to get the nostalgia bug and realizes the boomer generation was right. Too many ifs in that equation to make the risk palatable.
 

GOLDBRIX

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#12
In sum, the above watch is in ALL areas totally superior to Rolex. Rolex Oyster price starts at $5,410.00
About ten years ago one of the business channels had the CEO of ROLEX on in the morning. The host says "Well, How's the watch business"? The CEO looks at him and says "Watch Business ? That is like asking Lamborghini how's the car business. We don't sell watches we sell luxury".

G-Shock - I like the look and utility of that watch.
 

Rollie Free

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#13
Wow, such a wide array of opinions and expertise. SLV, sounds like you know your stuff.
My main objective is pride of ownership and an heirloom to pass on. I don't plan to wear it while changing my oil.
I dont want to get fleeced, I'd be happy with just a store of value. What historically has that been like?

Good points about millennials. Most have probably never heard of a Rolex. It might be a market that dies off in twenty years.

Is there a website that would be able to give you approximate values?
 

Unca Walt

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I got a Rolex from my company. Kept it for ten years before I got completely disgusted with the POS. It was like a rotary phone compared to an i-phone.

Weighed a pound, kept terrible time (off by a couple of minutes a day), and cost OVER $200 PER YEAR to clean.

If I did not pay the $200+ one year... fargin watch would STOP. <-- fact

Dinky little integral magnifying bubble had tiny unreadable date. And if the minute hand was at the "3", the date was totally covered up. Month was not available.

One time, the friggin' stem was not wound in all the way (from having to do a daily reset of the right time), and I went scuba diving. The sweep second hand was pushing a bubble of salt water around. $350 for that "cleaning"!!

I sold it in frustration for a couple of $K, and for now I have a watch that:

1. Is ALWAYS accurate to the SECOND. Always.

2. Does not have to be wound, and does not have a battery; it is solar powered (2 min/day in sunlight = OK).

3. Tells me the day of the week, month, year. In big letters and numbers.

4. Waterproof. <-- Doesn't even have a stem.

5. It costs one fourth of ONE Rolex "cleaning" (here's one on e-bay for fitty bucks with free shipping):





There's a shitload more the watch can do that I do not givva darn for, but the extra stuff is not a negative... I just never really need to know the current temperature in Delhi, or multi-timer stopwatch timing four horses or something.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Stuff like that -- the instruction book for this watch was is 185 pages!! I tossed it.

In sum, the above watch is in ALL areas superior to Rolex. Rolex price starts at $5,410.00

That makes the Rolex turd
 

Silver

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#15
The value of a Rolex is its value as a symbol of wealth - if you are into the Art of Intimidation. A private jet is a more impressive symbol.
 

<SLV>

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#18
What is value? What has worth? Someone recently paid over $1,000,000 for a banana duct taped to a wall in a gallery in Florida. At least luxury watches have amazing engineering and craftsmanship combined with stunning aesthetics.

There has been a luxury watch revival in the last 15 years. Much of the credit for this resurgence can be directed to the founder of Hodinkee, Benjamin Clymer. No doubt that boomers identified luxury watches as a significant status symbol. This seems to have skipped a generation (hippy communism caused disdain for opulent wealth?). Today Gen X is falling in love with mechanical watches all over again. I can't say if this will catch on with Gen Y, Z, or Millennials. Apple watch has been a major disrupter.

50 years ago the major disrupter was quartz technology (thank you, Japan). The accuracy and accessibility of quartz watches decimated Swiss watch making (the Swiss have always dominated haute horology). Most major brands began to introduce quartz product lines... a few did not. Many brands went bankrupt. Slowly the pendulum began to swing back away from Quartz to the tiny mechanical marvels. High precision mechanical watch movements really are amazing! Especially when you add in complications such as chronograph, moon phase, perpetual calendar, minute repeater, alarm... etc. Most high-end mechanical watches have sapphire (clear) case backs to observe the movement. Besides being amazing marvels of engineering they are positively art! (Rolex only does solid case backs, so no peeking there.)

Frankly, I love luxury mechanical watches. They represent the pinnacle of engineering and craftsmanship; of science and art. When viewed under magnification the accuracy of the finishes and the minute details are breathtaking.

This is what you must understand: luxury horology is art. It is not about merely telling the time. That is the last reason anyone spends thousands on a wristwatch. As with any art there is a feeling that the piece communicates to the aficionado. It is hard to quantify, or place a value on that feeling. Supply and demand drive price discovery.

Lately vintage Rolex sport watches have been all the rage. The crowning moment being the sale of Paul Newman's Rolex Cosmograph Daytona at auction for an all time record price of $17.8M. This has driven up the "value" of all similar Rolex Daytona's (now called "Paul Newman Daytonas"). Ironically, the introduction of the Daytona was a dismal failure. Rolex introduced the Daytona try to keep up with Omega who had introduced the Speedmaster a few years earlier. The Speedmaster would go on to become famous as the official watch of the Apollo space missions. To the Rolex faithful a "tool watch" (racing Chronograph) was too vulgur for the aristocratic image of Rolex. It was not a popular watch... therefore there are not many early versions... therefore they have become exceptionally valuable.

Perhaps the most popular luxury wristwatch of all time is the Rolex Submariner dive watch. Rolex has a great reputation for only making very minor tweaks to their designs as the decades pass by. All of these little tweaks have made the Submariner a favorite of vintage Rolex collectors. It is positively mind boggling to try to separate all of the minor details and variations that exist. (Knock yourself out: https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/rolex-submariner-reference-points)

A common theme among watch collectors is "If I had only know 30, 40, 50 years ago..." That is the rub. There may be watches being made today that will be the multi million dollar auction items several decades in the future.

I have given much thought to this very subject. How does one identify items available today that collectors will fight over in the future? Here is my answer.

When a man aspires to success (wealth) that man envisions the luxury of his lifestyle when he finally makes it. This vision spurs him on and keeps him on course to realize his dream. IT IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND... this vision is comprised of what defined luxury at the outset of his venture. 40 years later when he retires to enjoy the fruit of his labor he has a fond nostalgia for those unattainable objects of which he used to dream. These are the men bidding at auctions today. They are buying the objects they could only dream about when they were younger -- they are realizing their dreams. You will find the same thing with collectible automobiles.

I aspire. I dream. I work like crazy to make my businesses succeed. I am not there, but I still believe it is within my grasp even though I am in my 40s. Part of my dream is having a small collection of amazing watches. Not merely as an investment, but as trophies -- as art to handle, wear, something to make me feel good about my successes.

What are my dream watches? Thanks for asking. Much of what is being released today as new watches are actually just nostalgic throw-back ("vintage inspired") creations. I think this is largely driven by the sky-high prices of original vintage pieces. People associate value with a certain aesthetic. Personally, I think watches with "faux-tina" are tacky. A watch should have to earn its patina. I prefer new watches whose designs capture the spirit of the age in which we are living, and as much as possible cast a vision for what the future may hold. I want to own watches that are unmistakably part of the unique design language of this revival in which we are living. It just might be that these are future classics many are overlooking in favor of retro/nostalgic designs.

1594496352723.png


1. Tudor Pelagos ($4,700) - Tudor is an off-shoot of, and owned by, Rolex. It was started as a company to be the working man's watch -- for those who cannot afford Rolex. Because of this it did not have a Rolex movement, but a modified ETA movement. However, in 2017 Tudor updated the newly released Pelagos line with an in-house movement. This watch is titanium (lightweight and warm on the wrist). It is a no-nonsense tool watch. Designed for "saturation diving" to 500 meters it features a helium escape valve on the side to prevent the crystal from popping off during decompression. In my estimation this is "The Best Watch in the World." It can be worn with short on the beach or with a suit jacket. It is nearly indestructible and very comfortable to wear. There is no part of the design or aesthetic that is not practical or utilitarian in some way.

1594496608769.png


2. Grand Seiko SBGA293, Spring Drive ($5,200) - This is the most peaceful watch I have ever seen. The Japanese aesthetic is pure and balanced. The "spring drive" caliber (movement) is amazing: the second hand sweeps in a smooth graceful movement -- no ticking. The off-white dial is soft like linen. The pictures do not do justice to the amazing faceting of the dauphin hands and dial appliques. Do not confuse "Grand Seiko" with the "Seiko" you buy at J.C.Pennies. Grand Seiko is a seperate company (spun off from Seiko), and they are coming on strong as a power player against Swiss watch makers.

1594496921926.png


3. Bulgari Octo Finissimo Chronograph GMT Automatic ($17,600) -- The technology at work here is beyond words. This is the thinnest automatic chronograph watch in the world. Made completely from titanium it feels like a feather on the wrist. The sand blasted finish combined with the monochrome palette and architectural geometry create a striking modern look. It is my dream watch.

1594497140006.png


4. Rolex Air King 116900 ($6,500... if you can find it) -- My favorite Rolex. The fact that it was panned at its introduction a few years ago indicate to me that it is a future classic. The dial design is based on a land speed record car (The Bloodhound) for which Rolex made the gauges. It is technically the same as a Milgauss, but it has a different dial. The Milgauss is priced $2k more. This watch is a steal of a deal... if you can find it.

1594497398981.png


5. Oris Propilot X ($8,300) -- Oris is an amazing independent Swiss brand. They survived the quartz crisis without giving up their commitment to mechanical wristwatches. Year after year (recently) they have been delivering interesting new designs and technology. I think they are bringing fresh ideas to the market. This watch is a "skeleton" watch (you see the movement through the dial). I do not like skeleton watches because they are too busy, but I like this watch. It is a titanium case and bracelet. I has an amazing 10-day power reserve!

These are five watches I would like to own. I am not saying all of them are good investments. I think the Rolex Air king might be the best investment in the long run. But if your pockets are deep enough the Bulgari Octo Finissimo Chronograph GMT Automatic is also a good bet for appreciation.

There is a good chance that hand made watches will outperform these mass produced watches (I say "mass produced" by comparison). There are a few small artisan shops making amazing watches. These small watch makers can only produce 4-12 watches per year, and each one is a unique creation commissioned by the buyer. Look at Roger W. Smith (https://www.rwsmithwatches.com/ -- featured in the documentary "The Watchmaker's Apprentice" along with the great master, George Daniels), Kari Voutelainen (http://www.voutilainen.ch/), Philippe Dufour (http://dufourwatches.free.fr/), and Stefan Kudoke (https://www.kudoke.eu/about-kudoke.html).

There is so much more I could say. Feel free to ask, and I will answer.
 

<SLV>

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#19
I must reitterate that Audemars Piguet Code 11.59 has been disdained by the AP faithful... much like the Rolex faithful disdained the Daytona. This makes me think they are future classics. However, they start at $27,000 for a basic version and the fancy ones are way up into the six figures.
 

<SLV>

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#20
Another point... if you are looking at it as an investment, then stick with the most popular brands: Rolex, Audemars Piguet, and Patek Philippe. It is all about broad market appeal when you are ready to sell. You might be able to add Bulgari and Vacheron Constantin to this list (and possibly Grand Seiko in the future).

If you are only looking at Rolex then consider this: Rolex does not release its production numbers, but it makes a LOT of watches. A lot more than AP or Patek.
 

<SLV>

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#22
If you want to collect/invest I recommend you choose a niche - one brand and one product line in that brand. Then become a total expert on every watch in that product line since it began. Then selectively hunt and purchase the most desirable and unique pieces.

If it was me I would choose something everyone wasn't already collecting. Also, you must pick something you love - it has to thrill you to own them as art; stir up your passion.

Frankly, I would expect all Rolex, AP, Patek, and Vacheron to at the least preserve their value. Remember, you make your profit at the purchase, so build a relationship with a reputable authorized dealer and ask to be alerted on used pieces.
 

TomD

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#23
I've got a SS & Gold Submariner, a Christmas present in the mid-1980's from a now ex-wife. Turns out I had to make payments on it. I haven't worn it much in the last 10 years, seems a little pretentious for my present self.

I think it cost around $2500 in 1985 dollars which the inflation calculators tell me is around $6000 today. Maybe I could get that for the watch, which would be breaking even. Breaking even on a 35 year duration investment is not a good business deal.

BTW, Unca Walt, I had a lot better luck with time accuracy than you did. Mine was within a minute of two a month and it was serviced only once in the couple of decades that I wore it day to day. Had to replace the band once and that was a hit.

I'm old and set in my ways and one of the few people who still wears a watch. My daily watch in now a Seiko, it gets set twice a year at the time changes and doesn't need it then.
 

<SLV>

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#24
I've got a SS & Gold Submariner, a Christmas present in the mid-1980's from a now ex-wife. Turns out I had to make payments on it. I haven't worn it much in the last 10 years, seems a little pretentious for my present self.

I think it cost around $2500 in 1985 dollars which the inflation calculators tell me is around $6000 today. Maybe I could get that for the watch, which would be breaking even. Breaking even on a 35 year duration investment is not a good business deal.

BTW, Unca Walt, I had a lot better luck with time accuracy than you did. Mine was within a minute of two a month and it was serviced only once in the couple of decades that I wore it day to day. Had to replace the band once and that was a hit.

I'm old and set in my ways and one of the few people who still wears a watch. My daily watch in now a Seiko, it gets set twice a year at the time changes and doesn't need it then.
Depending on the reference that Sub might appraise at 10-12k nowadays.
 

Unca Walt

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#25
Just thought of sumpin' else about my Casio: Besides being continually updated by the Time Thingy Out There In The Rockies, it also takes care of Daylight Saving Time switcheroos all by itself.

So what I gots now is an easily readable, microsecond-accurate, fully informative, self-powered, near-indestructible timepiece.

And -- Jeez. I'm retired. But it helps to tell me which days to put the garbage and recycle stuff out... :don't know::beer:
 

<SLV>

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#27
I should have mentioned sooner that documentation is CRITICAL. Collectors expect all of the original packaging amd paperwork in excellent condition. The box and papers make up HALF of the value of a collectible watch.

Also, provenance is what makes one watch stand out from identical models. A watch owned by someone famous who is documented wearing it adds a lot of value. Especially if it shows the scuffs of being worn.
 

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#28
Depending on the reference that Sub might appraise at 10-12k nowadays.
Curious, what do you mean by "reference"?

Picture taken a couple of minutes ago is below. It's pretty nicked up as you might expect after being worn daily for 25 years. The crystal seems to be indestructible though.

DSC05474.jpg
 

Son of Gloin

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#29
I never wear a watch and I really don’t care what time it is, for the most part. When I was working, I lived by the clock and fought it, all day long. Now, I’m retired, thank God and have the luxury of living a pretty much timeless life.
 

<SLV>

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#30
Curious, what do you mean by "reference"?

Picture taken a couple of minutes ago is below. It's pretty nicked up as you might expect after being worn daily for 25 years. The crystal seems to be indestructible though.
The crystal in sapphire, so it is basically as hard as diamond.

The "reference" is the specific model number given by Rolex (includes every detail including color -- must like a VIN for a car, except multiple identical watches have the same reference number). It should be on the paperwork that came with the watch. I hope you saved the box and paperwork... it adds a lot of value. (as well as the additional links from the bracelet if you removed any)

Believe it or not, some collectors actually pay more for authentic wear on watches. The discoloration on the hands (and lume) are typical of degradation caused by light. Sometimes the black dial actually fades to a dark chocolate brown. Dials like this are called "tropical" dials due to the amount of sun that has been on them.

DO NOT send it in to Rolex for service. They have a policy of replacing all worn parts -- even cosmetically worn parts -- and returning the watch polished like new.

From what I can see, this watch is a slightly less common transitional piece, Reference 16803, made from 1984-1988. It was the first two-tone Submariner model, it had a new caliber with a depth rating of 300m (up from 200m), and was the first of the Submariners to get a sapphire crystal. It also has a matte dial with gold around the markers, whereas all models since then have had glossy dials with gold around the markers. I believe the blue bezel / dial was a more common iteration of this model. Nowadays the black dial is preferred, and possibly more rare.

It is very nice! If I was you I would wear it with pride and pass it on to my grandson... if I had a grandson.

Not going to fetch over $10k, but it is probably in the $6-8k range with box and papers.
 

<SLV>

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#31
These will give you a great glimpse into the minds of watch collectors.

Enjoy.




 

Stonewall

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#32
Curious, what do you mean by "reference"?

Picture taken a couple of minutes ago is below. It's pretty nicked up as you might expect after being worn daily for 25 years. The crystal seems to be indestructible though.

View attachment 172379
This is the exact model my father wore when I was a kid and he still wears it to this day. I remember him letting me put it on and turning the bezel as a five year old. One day it will be mine but that will be a sad day since he will be gone at that point. This is one of the reasons these time pieces are so special and moving to us.
 

<SLV>

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#33
I got a Rolex from my company. Kept it for ten years before I got completely disgusted with the POS. It was like a rotary phone compared to an i-phone.

Weighed a pound, kept terrible time (off by a couple of minutes a day), and cost OVER $200 PER YEAR to clean.

If I did not pay the $200+ one year... fargin watch would STOP. <-- fact

Dinky little integral magnifying bubble had tiny unreadable date. And if the minute hand was at the "3", the date was totally covered up. Month was not available.

One time, the friggin' stem was not wound in all the way (from having to do a daily reset of the right time), and I went scuba diving. The sweep second hand was pushing a bubble of salt water around. $350 for that "cleaning"!!

I sold it in frustration for a couple of $K, and for now I have a watch that:

1. Is ALWAYS accurate to the SECOND. Always.

2. Does not have to be wound, and does not have a battery; it is solar powered (2 min/day in sunlight = OK).

3. Tells me the day of the week, month, year. In big letters and numbers.

4. Waterproof. <-- Doesn't even have a stem.

5. It costs one fourth of ONE Rolex "cleaning" (here's one on e-bay for fitty bucks with free shipping):





There's a shitload more the watch can do that I do not givva darn for, but the extra stuff is not a negative... I just never really need to know the current temperature in Delhi, or multi-timer stopwatch timing four horses or something.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Stuff like that -- the instruction book for this watch was is 185 pages!! I tossed it.

In sum, the above watch is in ALL areas superior to Rolex. Rolex price starts at $5,410.00

That makes the Rolex turd
Was your company name on the dial of the watch? Rolex used to let companies do that. They are very collectible today.
 

Uglytruth

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#34
Some also "Hot Rod" up their watch with different options.
 

Unca Walt

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#35
Was your company name on the dial of the watch? Rolex used to let companies do that. They are very collectible today.
Nope. It DID have my name engraved on the back, though.
 

<SLV>

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#36
If you want to be freaked out about fakes, browse here: https://www.puretimewatch.io/

I am amazed at how there are fakes of even relatively low cost or obscure brands/models.

Exclussive technology is hard to fake (like being the world's thinnest chronograph or having a hybrid movement like the Grand Seiko Spring Drive). Watches that are harder to fake might be better collectibles. Also, anything gold/rose gold will be plated instead of solid. So buying watches with solid gold (Rolex) are much easier to differentiate as fakes.
 

Rollie Free

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#37
Think I'll pass. First off they are much more expensive than I imagined and the investment angle seems spurious compared to the tried and true .
I never realized there was such a depth of knowledge on this board.
 

jrog100

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#38
Doing some reading on this. Anyone knowledgable?
Keep exploring?
Stay the heck away chump?
I bought a 2 tone date just 10 years ago for $1200 at a pawn shop. its a late 80s model and I don't think you can get one for that today. I wear mine everyday and it still looks new. pretty tough watch.
 

Scorpio

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#39
I never realized there was such a depth of knowledge on this board.
I am constantly reminded of the depth and breadth of that knowledge,
covering so many subjects and interests,

very cool,