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Selling bullion

luckabuck

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#1
Going to be moving soon, and need some more cash for the new residence. What is the best way to get bullion back to the selling company other than bringing it in person? I'm worried about mailing interceptions and not being able to buy enough insurance to cover a loss if that does happen. Never redeemed bullion that I purchased over the years. Thanks.
 

Silver

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#2
USPS Registered - 50k insurance max per package. Whoever you sell it to will give you shipping instructions - such as APMEX, JM Bullion, etc.
 

luckabuck

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Thanks for the info. I did not know that the USPS would insure for an amount that high in value. Was thinking about 100K, so I could send it in two different packages.
 

Fatboy

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Thanks for the info. I did not know that the USPS would insure for an amount that high in value. Was thinking about 100K, so I could send it in two different packages.
Yes. There used to be instructions on how to reinforce/double up the USPS Flat Rate boxes for additional strength here. Could have been in the last decade at GIM 1 too. :)
 

CrimsonGuardJay

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#5
I believe it’s the strategy that when they receive your bullion they simply wire you money, but if your looking to avoid a very high transaction, you may want to sell off a few ounces here and there instead.
 

savvydon

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Yes. There used to be instructions on how to reinforce/double up the USPS Flat Rate boxes for additional strength here. Could have been in the last decade at GIM 1 too. :)
You have to cover all the seams with gummed brown paper tape. If you don't have any the post office will give you some to use. This is so they can stamp all the edges to prevent clandestine entry into the package. Ship your packages in boluses of 50K (fully insured), via priority registered mail. Usually gets there in less than a week. Registered mail is kept in a safe area at each stop of the trip and has to be signed for by a responsible individual at each leg of the trip.

There are also private companies who will insure packages you send for a fee but this is probably more complex than necessary for a one off user.
 

southfork

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#8
A few years back I sent some registered, insured and the post office said they had to seal in there.

You have to cover all the seams with gummed brown paper tape. If you don't have any the post office will give you some to use. This is so they can stamp all the edges to prevent clandestine entry into the package. Ship your packages in boluses of 50K (fully insured), via priority registered mail. Usually gets there in less than a week. Registered mail is kept in a safe area at each stop of the trip and has to be signed for by a responsible individual at each leg of the trip.

There are also private companies who will insure packages you send for a fee but this is probably more complex than necessary for a one off user.
 

savvydon

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#10
A few years back I sent some registered, insured and the post office said they had to seal in there.
My experience is that you can do this at home, but it must be done correctly. They will then stamp all edges to ‘seal the deal’.
 

goldielox1

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#11
Considering it would probably cost $1000+ to insure $100,000, I'd just as soon take a road trip to the nearest major dealer. Even if it's 12-15 hours drive. Lock in the price and let them know you'd like to personally drop it off.
 

latemetal

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#12
When I sold to APMEX, I told them what I wanted to sell, and then I followed their instructions to the letter, I was selling silver and that gets heavy.
 

savvydon

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Considering it would probably cost $1000+ to insure $100,000, I'd just as soon take a road trip to the nearest major dealer. Even if it's 12-15 hours drive. Lock in the price and let them know you'd like to personally drop it off.
You can send two registered USPS packages insured for this amount for $100-200.
 

savvydon

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#15
Are you sure about this? What's the exact price for $50,000 insurance? I have a hard time believing it's $200
I had the occasion to send several of these for someone earlier last year. The cost of $50,000 insurance using registered mail was under $100. The reason is because it is a protected method of transit that is always under an individual’s responsibility. It is signed for internally as it proceeds along the journey. There will be some variation of cost to send the package depending on the size and weight, but assuming you aren’t sending a metric ton of copper the package should transit for about $100 including insurance.
 

AguA

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#16
Are you sure about this? What's the exact price for $50,000 insurance? I have a hard time believing it's $200
I was curious too so I went to the USPS site and selected "Calculate A Price". I entered a $50,000 valuation for the insurance which is the max for Registered Mail. $50,000 is 38toz of gold at ~spot price of $1300. I'll be doggone. Now I just need to get myself 38toz of Au so I can have those kinds of concerns. lol

Postage Price Calculator

Summary
Priority Mail 2-Day™, Flat Rate Box, mailed on January 4
from DALEVILLE AL 36362 to OKLAHOMA CITY OK 73102

Mailing Summary Retail Click-N-Ship®
Priority Mail 2-Day™ Small Flat Rate Box $7.15
Registered Mail™ $92.05
Total $99.20
 

goldielox1

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I have a feeling that this type of insurance would exclude metals or cash equivalents. It likely covers damages to something such as dropping a box and your fine china broke. They'll sell you the insurance which always have fine print which you don't realize until you go to make a claim. I've heard countless accounts of people going to file a claim on regular shipments and then were told, sorry that wasn't packed correctly even when it was well packed.
 

Silver

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I have a feeling that this type of insurance would exclude metals or cash equivalents. It likely covers damages to something such as dropping a box and your fine china broke. They'll sell you the insurance which always have fine print which you don't realize until you go to make a claim. I've heard countless accounts of people going to file a claim on regular shipments and then were told, sorry that wasn't packed correctly even when it was well packed.
The Registered Mail insurance covers PM's - and they will not accept your package unless it is properly wrapped with glued paper tape, which they will then stamp all over it with a special stamp.

The only catch on the insurance is you have to be able to prove the value you claimed. If you insure it for 50k, but it was only 20k worth of gold, you will not collect your insured value.
 

Irons

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#20
I'm a firm believer that everyone in the PM game should sell some, just to learn how to do it. Seems simple, but when you get the big run you will want to be a pro at it.
Sound advice. I keep on good terms with my local auto mechanic and my LCS.
My favorite LCS needed Gold Pesos when the premium went nuts and I was happy to hook him up and then just put the $$ back into Sovereigns.
He was very happy and I bought the pesos years ago because back then they were cheap.

.
 
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AguA

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#21
I have a feeling that this type of insurance would exclude metals or cash equivalents. It likely covers damages to something such as dropping a box and your fine china broke. They'll sell you the insurance which always have fine print which you don't realize until you go to make a claim. I've heard countless accounts of people going to file a claim on regular shipments and then were told, sorry that wasn't packed correctly even when it was well packed.

From USPS Website:

Money (currency / cash) that is sent through the mail can be insured with the following limits:


  • Except for Registered Mail™, the maximum indemnity for negotiable items (defined as instruments that can be converted to cash without resort to forgery), currency, or bullion, is $15.00.
  • For Registered Mail™, cash can be insured up to $50,000. For amounts over $50,000, the full value must be declared but the maximum insured value is $50,000.
When a claim is filed, money is replaced at the insured value as indicated above only:

  1. After proof of value is shown (if the actual value was less than the insured amount, then only the actual value is paid).
    • Important: If you are sending a significant amount of cash, you need to verify with your local Post Office what is considered valid proof of value before mailing the item. You should also verify that it is packaged securely enough to protect a high value item from being harmed during regular mail processing.
  2. After the claim process is completed.
 

tigerwillow1

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#22
If your PM registered mail shipment is lost, how do you prove the value? What stops them from saying there was brick in the box?
 

Silver

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#23
If your PM registered mail shipment is lost, how do you prove the value? What stops them from saying there was brick in the box?
Filing Domestic Claims
What do you need to file a domestic claim?
A Tracking or Label Number

The tracking or label number is found on your online label record, package label, mailing receipt, or sales receipt. Tracking and label numbers are between 13 and 34 characters.

Example: 9205 5000 0000 0000 0000 00

If you don't see a number like that, look for a string of 20, 22, 26, 30, or 34 numbers.


Proof of Value
Proof of value can include:

  • A sales receipt
  • A paid invoice or paid bill of sale
  • Statement of value and/or estimates of repair costs from a reputable dealer
  • A credit card billing statement
  • Receipt of costs incurred for reconstruction of non-negotiable documents
  • Printouts of the online transaction identifying the purchaser and seller, price paid, date of transaction, description of item purchased, and assurance that the transaction status is completed
Here's a detailed PDF:
https://pe.usps.com/cpim/ftp/manuals/dmm300/609.pdf
 
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Silver Art

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#24
I'm a firm believer that everyone in the PM game should sell some, just to learn how to do it. Seems simple, but when you get the big run you will want to be a pro at it.

I agree with this. I sell silver on a regular basis since I have an ebay side business selling "collectible" silver. Even after fees and shipping costs, Ebay works for me since I have a much bigger profit margin potential on the type of silver that I am selling ('70's silver art bars, certain ATB pucks, etc.) than regular silver.

With that being said, I have used registered mail once in 2016 when I sold a high value 1-oz silver art bar (approximately $450) on ebay to a customer. My experience using registered mail is that they are very specific on how the package should be prepared before they even touch it and you have to fill out a form and you have to indicate the $ value of the item you are mailing. It is a slower than regular mail but it gets there with all the "I's" dotted and "T's" crossed. I do not use registered mail very often. I only use it if I am selling any high value 1-oz silver art bars or other "collectible" silver bars/coins ($200 value and higher).
 

goldielox1

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#25
Proof of Value
Proof of value can include:

  • A sales receipt
  • A paid invoice or paid bill of sale
  • Statement of value and/or estimates of repair costs from a reputable dealer
  • A credit card billing statement
  • Receipt of costs incurred for reconstruction of non-negotiable documents
  • Printouts of the online transaction identifying the purchaser and seller, price paid, date of transaction, description of item purchased, and assurance that the transaction status is completed
Here's a detailed PDF:
https://pe.usps.com/cpim/ftp/manuals/dmm300/609.pdf
Again this clearly seems geared toward something that is damaged. You buy a $50,000 vase with your credit card. The seller ships it registered mail. It gets crushed by the teenager that drives the mail truck over it and then is delivered to you. You open said box and vase is shattered. You file claim and use credit card receipt and pictures of said vase as proof of loss and value. Assuming they actually accept your packaging was done correctly that is.

The problem is when you ship that 1 kilo Au bar to your favorite dealer and it disappears with your mail man. There is no way to prove what was in the box. Now if you ship 100 x 70's art bars and the gets rolled over by the mail truck and the bars are damaged, then you can show your proof of value from comparables or a recipt when you purchased them. I have a suspicion that it would be nearly impossible if the box just disappears or arrives empty to prove your box contained a kilo Au bar and recover your loss. I'd be curious to hear a story where someone did recover in this situation (lost box with Au for instance or box arrives empty).

Filing a claim is no guarantee the claim will be paid. They can reject your claim and just say sorry you didn't provide satisfactory proof.

I suppose if it were actually possible to recover based solely on what one claims was in the box, one could just ship a brick and buy $50K insurance for $200 and then pray it gets lost. Upon box being lost, collect $50K insurance. It's like playing the lottery I suppose. Pay $100 for a chance to win $50K. If you live in an especially rough neighborhood, your odds of winning improve.
 

savvydon

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#26
Again this clearly seems geared toward something that is damaged. You buy a $50,000 vase with your credit card. The seller ships it registered mail. It gets crushed by the teenager that drives the mail truck over it and then is delivered to you. You open said box and vase is shattered. You file claim and use credit card receipt and pictures of said vase as proof of loss and value. Assuming they actually accept your packaging was done correctly that is.

The problem is when you ship that 1 kilo Au bar to your favorite dealer and it disappears with your mail man. There is no way to prove what was in the box. Now if you ship 100 x 70's art bars and the gets rolled over by the mail truck and the bars are damaged, then you can show your proof of value from comparables or a recipt when you purchased them. I have a suspicion that it would be nearly impossible if the box just disappears or arrives empty to prove your box contained a kilo Au bar and recover your loss. I'd be curious to hear a story where someone did recover in this situation (lost box with Au for instance or box arrives empty).

Filing a claim is no guarantee the claim will be paid. They can reject your claim and just say sorry you didn't provide satisfactory proof.

I suppose if it were actually possible to recover based solely on what one claims was in the box, one could just ship a brick and buy $50K insurance for $200 and then pray it gets lost. Upon box being lost, collect $50K insurance. It's like playing the lottery I suppose. Pay $100 for a chance to win $50K. If you live in an especially rough neighborhood, your odds of winning improve.
Again, the cost of insurance here is this low because of the nature of the conveyance. Since an individual is responsible for each leg of the journey, there is an employee with skin in the game to make sure your package gets to where it is going. Most people don't want to pay $100 to mail an insured brick because of the overwhelming likelihood that it is going to be delivered. Note that one cannot get these insurance rates with mass shipping options such as priority or priority express, even when the package has to be signed for. This is because the package is not always under direct supervision and the chance of it getting lost, or riffled, is higher.

Lotteries exist because the people who make them make money. They make money off the vast majority of those who play them and don't win.
 

tigerwillow1

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#27
If a PM shipment were to get lost, the only thing I can think of offhand to protect yourself is to have a number of credible witnesses watch you pack and seal the box and never let it out of their sight until it's handed over to the postal clerk. The published proof of value examples don't look like they work with an individual shipping a highly appreciated item.
 

Silver

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#28
If a PM shipment were to get lost, the only thing I can think of offhand to protect yourself is to have a number of credible witnesses watch you pack and seal the box and never let it out of their sight until it's handed over to the postal clerk. The published proof of value examples don't look like they work with an individual shipping a highly appreciated item.
I videoed the packing when I did it. Took pics front and back of the goods with the sales contract from the dealer I sent it to.
 

stAGgering

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#29
I videoed the packing when I did it. Took pics front and back of the goods with the sales contract from the dealer I sent it to.
That is how I performed "high value" shipping.... USPS Standard or Priority Mail.
Vid final packaging with view of product entering package, right in the P.O.
Then final tape and carry to scale for USPS to gain possession.
Record package address and receipt with address.
Once package buyer receives, deleted from camera.
This removes 100% of my seller, responsibility.
Of course, in todays world rules change.
However, buyer receives written email of recording process of shipment.
Just to deter.
 

goldielox1

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That is how I performed "high value" shipping.... USPS Standard or Priority Mail.
Vid final packaging with view of product entering package, right in the P.O.
Then final tape and carry to scale for USPS to gain possession.
Record package address and receipt with address.
Once package buyer receives, deleted from camera.
This removes 100% of my seller, responsibility.
Of course, in todays world rules change.
However, buyer receives written email of recording process of shipment.
Just to deter.
I'd worry about someone seeing what you're shipping, esp if you're just sending it priority mail or something (not registered). e.g. The mail counter worker sees you slide that kilo bar in while video taping. You hand to him for acceptance. He throws the box on the belt, then after you walk out he goes in back and "accidentally" knocks it off the belt and kicks it in the corner near his locker and it is never seen again. Seems like a good idea for pilfering fleabay buyers though.
 

stAGgering

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#31
I'd worry about someone seeing what you're shipping, esp if you're just sending it priority mail or something (not registered). e.g. The mail counter worker sees you slide that kilo bar in while video taping. You hand to him for acceptance. He throws the box on the belt, then after you walk out he goes in back and "accidentally" knocks it off the belt and kicks it in the corner near his locker and it is never seen again. Seems like a good idea for pilfering fleabay buyers though.
I was born at night, not last night.
 

luckabuck

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#32
Insurance or not, with the weird things that I have experienced with the USPS during the past year, I'm really concerned about shipping high value objects. I'm concerned about them blowing me off if something happens and I file an insurance claim. The honesty and quality of workers that I have me in the USPS this past year make me sending something of value questionable. I think I will have to deliver my bullion myself to a broker.