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SSD vs a 1T hard drive

southfork

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#1
Buying a new laptop when i find the right priced one, anyone have used the SSD vs the hard drive have any comment on it, does it just load your programs faster on your laptop or does it load web pages faster also. looking for 17 inch 1t and i5 processor,8 g so far best deal is officemax for 429, hp you can build one with SSD closer to 600 but dont know if the ssd is worth the extra money
 

the_shootist

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#2
SSD is much faster reading data so you'll see a definite performance boost over a standard spinning drive. Spinning drive are only as fast as the spinning disk and read/write heads will operate. Because of the nature of the moving parts involved there will be some latency between when the computer asks for data vs. how long it actually receives it into memory. Reading from solid state disk is relatively instantaneous and doesn't have the latency of a disk with moving parts. The only disadvantages of SSD compared to spinning disk is cost however; that price gap has closed considerably since SSD became mainstream so much that buying an SSD rather than spinning disk is really the way to go.
 

ErrosionOfAccord

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#3
I’d go solid state again. Take your old HD out and put it in the new machine for a backup.
 

TRYNEIN

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#4
We have to have a SSD hard drive in order to achieve speeds above 400 Mb and seeing as we ,as a country, are moving to FTTH with speeds up a Gig, I would go with SSD
 

Goldhedge

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#5
I have an SSD for startup. 20 seconds to login.

I also have a 1-TB HD for 'stuff'.

If I install a program, I can point the install to the D: drive and put it there.

The only 'problem' I see is windoze doesn't 'see' it.

It doesn't show in the 'Programs' area probably because it's on the 'D:' drive?

I just send a shortcut to the desktop.

I also duplicated the folder structure on the D: drive as well to keep it simple.
 

Mujahideen

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#6
The only disadvantages of SSD compared to spinning disk is cost however;
I’ve heard that a ssd will eventually degrade and fail, and that this doesn’t happen to spinning disks... is this true?
 

Weatherman

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#7
I’ve heard that a ssd will eventually degrade and fail, and that this doesn’t happen to spinning disks... is this true?
Life cycle wear in an SSD isn't likely to be a problem with users who do not write huge amounts of data, but it is a real consideration. The best configuration is an SSD for boot and some programs, with most data on a separate, or even external, drive. Here is more than you want to know about the life of an SSD:

https://www.compuram.de/blog/en/the...es-it-last-and-what-can-be-done-to-take-care/
 

the_shootist

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#8

<SLV>

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#9
SSD is fantastic. I bought my wife a laptop for her birthday and promptly exchanged it for one with SSD. The performance difference is amazing.
 

solarion

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#10
Moving from platter drives to SSDs is probably the single most noticeable upgrade one can make to a computer.
 

TomD

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#11
When you go SSD, you will never be happy with an old style drive again. The real world difference is dramatic.

I just today finished the process of gathering parts for my next desktop that will take the SSD to the next level. Older SSD's tie into the computer's SATA bus which had a hard limitation of the transfer in and out speed to around 4 times what a mechanical drive will do. Still a dramatic and noticeable real world difference. The newer version of the SSD's tie into a different bus called the PCI-E. This removes the limitation and they're current running around 20 times faster than a spinning drive.

I've got my new boot drive sitting on the desk in front of me and it is literally the size of a stick of chewing gum. Because of the sheer size on my image files and the expense of SSD drives over a Terabyte, I'm also installing a 4 tb spinning drive just for storage.
 

Goldhedge

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#12
When you go SSD, you will never be happy with an old style drive again. The real world difference is dramatic.

I just today finished the process of gathering parts for my next desktop that will take the SSD to the next level. Older SSD's tie into the computer's SATA bus which had a hard limitation of the transfer in and out speed to around 4 times what a mechanical drive will do. Still a dramatic and noticeable real world difference. The newer version of the SSD's tie into a different bus called the PCI-E. This removes the limitation and they're current running around 20 times faster than a spinning drive.

I've got my new boot drive sitting on the desk in front of me and it is literally the size of a stick of chewing gum. Because of the sheer size on my image files and the expense of SSD drives over a Terabyte, I'm also installing a 4 tb spinning drive just for storage.
How about a list of components in that bad boy...?
 

Irons

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#13
Repost from a thread a year ago. SSD all the way man. This little HP is one smooth and fast laptop!

Just bought a NIB HP Elitebook 840 G2 for $475 free ship. Win 7 Pro installed with win 10 discs, 180 gig SSD, Intel Core i5 5300U 2.3 GHz and 8 gig of RAM. I installed another 8 g of ram to max it out. That's as far as building a computer I will ever get is adding RAM, lol.
Very nice machine super smooth and light.

It's the last of the HP Elitebook's that have the entire back panel pop off with one switch. The G3's have a dozen tiny screws and plugs.
They don't want you getting inside so easy anymore.

 

bb28

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#14
I’ve heard that a ssd will eventually degrade and fail, and that this doesn’t happen to spinning disks... is this true?
Yes, but for most people, the lifecycle of your computer will be way over before this happens.

Another benefit of SSDs is that since there are no moving parts, they can take a significant amount of abuse. Along with this, an encrypted SSD with the right system is nearly impossible to break into.

The downsides are the cost per GB and that when they break, there are not many options for data recovery.

Most people seem to be interested in maxing out memory, but I have found people generally only use around 8GB. Past 8GB, going from hard drive to SSD will give you the biggest punch in terms of better performance, more so than a faster processor.

bb
 

TomD

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#15
How about a list of components in that bad boy...?[/QUOT
Thermaltake 31 View ATX case w/ tempered glass 2 sides
I7-7700K CPU 4.2 Ghz base, overclockable to 5 GHz though I'm not going to push it nearly that hard.
NVM 2280 M.2 PCIe 3.0 x 4 NVMe SSD 480 MB (the SSD boot drive I was bragging about) This drive will be used only for the OS and programs
Noctua NH12S cooling
Corsair Gold 750 Watt power supply
ASUS Strix 270E motherboard
Corsair 2 x 8 DDR4 3200 memory
ASUS Radon 580 RX graphics I ran a little cheap on this, I'm not really a big gamer
Toshiba x300 4 Tb 7200 RPM hard drive for data
Asus DVD burner
Win 10 64 bit

I've also have a WD 4 TB external drive that I use to back up

The raw parts ran me about $1800 and that was watching the "Black" sales.

The motherboard has two M.2 slots. I'll wait until later this year when the solid state memory shortage goes away and prices drop and buy another NVMe to install for fast memory storage. My latest camera has a 42.3 mb sensor and the RAW files are 80mb per shot. My current computer was state of the art 2-1/2 years ago but it takes forever to load a couple hundred image files from a day's shoot. The MB has USB 3.1 inputs, which should help too.

Wish I could have used the same case as my last build. It's a Corsair and it's built like a large military ammo can (ATX form factor). The color is olive drab, it's steel and sturdy as hell, the side panels have snap locks like the lock down on the ammo cans and it has 2 ammo can like handles to carry it. But, unfortunately, no USB 3.1
 

solarion

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#16
Sounds lovely Tom. My own latest and greatest came with 3 nvme slots so I stuck two in there, one for OS/programs and one as a scratch disk...I do a lot of video editing. The drives are crazy fast.
 

Goldhedge

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#17
My latest camera has a 42.3 mb sensor and the RAW files are 80mb per shot.

But, unfortunately, no USB 3.1
Not to thread hack, but what camera you using? Sounds like the Sony mirrorless??

Also, no USB 3.1 on the mobo or in the case? I added a 3.0 dual port on the front of my cpu.

My computer is

ASRock H97M Pro4 mobo
i5 4460 w 8gigs ram, windoze 10
128G SSD,
1TB WD HD
Video card Nvidia Quadro K2200 for graphics ability paid $200 used,
500w ps
stuffed in an old Compaq ATX case I resurrected.
..

nothing as fancy as yours! Bet it flies...!
 

TomD

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#18
Not to thread hack, but what camera you using? Sounds like the Sony mirrorless??

Also, no USB 3.1 on the mobo or in the case? I added a 3.0 dual port on the front of my cpu.

My computer is

ASRock H97M Pro4 mobo
i5 4460 w 8gigs ram, windoze 10
128G SSD,
1TB WD HD
Video card Nvidia Quadro K2200 for graphics ability paid $200 used,
500w ps
stuffed in an old Compaq ATX case I resurrected.
..

nothing as fancy as yours! Bet it flies...!
The latest camera is a Sony A7RII

The system will have a pair of 3.1's on the case and on the MB + a number 3.0's and even, for some reason, a couple of 2.0's.

New Camera with 90mm Macro lens
by Tom, on Flickr
 

gringott

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#19
If you are concerned about SSD vs. HDD [mechanical] just compromise.
Get a smaller SSD for your boot drive and programs [apps].
Get a reasonable sized HDD for your larger storage files if you have some.
If you don't store any large amount of files long term, omit the HDD.
I have been running SSDs for a long time now, I have my original SDDs [60 GB each], now re purposed into other machines, guess what they are still working, they must be 7 or 8 years old and saw heavy use during the first few years.
Personally I would never use a HDD for boot / programs again, I have tried and can't stand the wait.

I have a LOT of SSDs, none have ever failed. However, price constraints that remain have limited me to 512 GB or less. During Black Friday time you might find some excellent deals on 256 to 512 GB. Traditionally this is when I purchase.
I use some on my main server for a "landing zone" so I can quickly move large files to it over the network.
Later they are automagically migrated to long term HDD storage. Drive I/O speeds are the main bottleneck in network speed, so I use the fastest I can for that.
Sadly, SSD prices seem to have not dramatically decreased over the last year.
 

TomD

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#20
I’ve heard that a ssd will eventually degrade and fail, and that this doesn’t happen to spinning disks... is this true?
Possible but not probable. Below a quote from a 2014 article from ZDNet and there has been a bunch of improvement since then. A mechanical drive would have failed hundreds of times in the time it takes for a SSD to fail based on memory "wear".

Here's the base article if anyone is interested: http://techreport.com/review/27436/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-two-freaking-petabytes


"While horror stories prevail regarding SSD reliability, recent tests carried out suggest that consumer solid state drives (SSDs) can be subjected to high usage levels before they experience failure.

The testing, carried out by The Tech Report, took six consumer-grade SSDs - the Corsair Neutron Series GTX, Intel 335 Series, two Kingston HyperX 3K drives, and Samsung 840 Series, and a Samsung 840 Pro - and wrote data to them until they failed.

Four of the drives failed around the one petabyte mark (one petabyte is a thousand terabytes), which is far beyond their rated value. However, two of the drives - a Kingston HyperX 3K and the Samsung 840 Pro - have gone on to break the two petabyte barrier, and are still going strong.

To put this into perspective, the average desktop drone might do about a terabyte of writes over the course of a year, which means that, theoretically at any rate, SSDs could last around a thousand years before succumbing to wear.

However, wear is only one part of the equations, and despite not containing any moving parts, the electronics in the SSD are going to fail long before the NAND wears out."
 

southfork

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#21
Sounds like the SSD is it then, this one if for the wife for her birthday, im going to buy one off HP site you can kind of pick a bundle and get 4% cash back on ebates. I use an older Toshiba amdquad core C75d a7213 can i replace the drive in that?

Thanks to all for the assist
 

the_shootist

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#22
Sounds like the SSD is it then, this one if for the wife for her birthday, im going to buy one off HP site you can kind of pick a bundle and get 4% cash back on ebates. I use an older Toshiba amdquad core C75d a7213 can i replace the drive in that?

Thanks to all for the assist
As long as you have a SATA interface you should be good to go
 

gringott

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#23
Sounds like the SSD is it then, this one if for the wife for her birthday, im going to buy one off HP site you can kind of pick a bundle and get 4% cash back on ebates. I use an older Toshiba amdquad core C75d a7213 can i replace the drive in that?

Thanks to all for the assist
Just personal experience and your milelege may vary, but I always find a price for the size SSD I want on the open market [newegg, Amazon, etc] and then compare the price to the SSD upgrade price for the device I am buying, I usually can get the SSD much cheaper that way and I use the supplied HDD as a storage device on that device or elsewhere. Example on laptops they often have two bays for drives, I mirror the supplied HDD to the SSD and move the SSD to the boot position. Format the HDD and use as storage.
 

nickndfl

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#24
Bottom line specs that you need are:

1. 256gb SSD
2. Use an external HDD for additional back up.
3. i7 processor
4. 16gb RAM
5. Backlit keyboard
6. Win 10
7. I prefer a 13" - 14" screen, others may like a 15" or 17" depending on usage. I find mobile business is fine with 13.3".
8. Dell Latitudes are built like tanks and come with a 3-yr. warranty.
9. You need their metal frame because plastic frames bend when they heat up and cause board problems.

Anything less is much less. Avoid traditional spinning SATA drives from now on. They use more battery and are more susceptible to errors. SSDs now last virtually a lifetime.
 

Bottom Feeder

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#25
Good thread but I wish you would have started it in the "Computers" forum and that way I would have noticed it earlier.

I see Win10 has native support for PCIe 3.0 for NVMe SSD, whereas Win7 need massaging and new drivers. I've run into that roadblock already with Win7 where it doesn't support USB 3.

I've ignored NVMe SSDs so far because I really didn't need the extra speed that only shows up on boot up in Win7. The bottom line is that it looks like I'm going to be moving soon to the latest microsnott windoze OS.

Ah well, time marches on. (And over us old fecks :D)

BF
 

solarion

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#26
Windoze 8 seems to work fine with both of my nvme drives. Plextor PX-1TM8PeG and a BPX-512 from mydigital.

Windoze 10 is spyware and should be avoided if at all possible. Various Linux distros have also had zero complaints.

If you still want to use windoze 10 look up host file mods on the Internetz. You'll find the means to block the built in phone home crap that microsloth built into it.
 

gringott

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#27
I haven't moved off the SATA bus yet for no need / cost reason yet. I can see however how some may find a use or need the speed.

I have a NUC that I installed Win7 on, had a USB 3 issue until after the install. Works fine now.
 

Bottom Feeder

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#28
gringott - how did you get USB2 to work? The only way I could see was to dig out the USB2 header on the MB and hook it up. The other way was to go through a long involved process of creating a boot image with the USB3 drivers installed.
Curious mind here, how did you do it?

BF
 

Zed

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#29
I have an SSD for startup. 20 seconds to login.

I also have a 1-TB HD for 'stuff'.

If I install a program, I can point the install to the D: drive and put it there.

The only 'problem' I see is windoze doesn't 'see' it.

It doesn't show in the 'Programs' area probably because it's on the 'D:' drive?

I just send a shortcut to the desktop.

I also duplicated the folder structure on the D: drive as well to keep it simple.
Put a hard link to your programs directory and move your programs directory to the harddrive then Windows won't know the difference.

I'm out of time to explain right now but this should give you a good start.

https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/using-symlinks-in-windows-vista/

It works for Windows 10. It works for Windows 10
 

gringott

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#30
gringott - how did you get USB2 to work? The only way I could see was to dig out the USB2 header on the MB and hook it up. The other way was to go through a long involved process of creating a boot image with the USB3 drivers installed.
Curious mind here, how did you do it?

BF
I have a thread on here somewhere about it, I did the USB2 header but was not satisfied. Here is a page with the blow by blow, I note there is a newer way on the page that looks even easier.

http://nucblog.net/2015/07/installing-windows-7-on-the-nuc5cpyh-or-nuc5ppyh/

Newer way: EDIT: Intel has now released a Windows 7 USB 3.0 Creator Utility v3 that will modify your Windows 7 installation USB stick automatically. This will help you skip steps 5-22 of the instruction below. Basically it will do the same thing that is described below, so if you want to be in control of what exactly happens you can also follow the below instructions.
 

Bottom Feeder

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#31
Yeah, I did it the second way, the long, involved, painful, step by convoluted step, to manufacture a USB installation disk. win8 uses the automated utility, can't do it on win7, it does not work with the automatical function.
lemme take a look at the first one.

tnx,
BF

edit
Yep - the first link is the way I did it.
They must of came out with the win7 utility after I finished my install.
I'll check out that version now also.
 

Bottom Feeder

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#32
I downloaded and looked into the 'automated' version and it was the procedure I followed. Went back and took a closer look at the first set of instructions and, yeah, in total, they are a bit more involved than the second set, which is the one I followed. That's how you did it, the first set?

BF
 

gringott

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#33
I guess I used the first method, but I followed / used the Intel instructions rather than the method in the article, I found it more confusing than the Intel method it was making "better". I made a few posts on the article, mentioning my failure with the internal USB 2 header, failure with certain drivers, etc.
This post helped me:
  • Steve
    July 31, 2015 at 20:20
    Okay – sorry for all that.
    I tried using a few of the different versions of the USB3.0 drivers – and eventually the one that is bundled with the broader group of drivers (not the one the website points you to on its own) ended up working.
    (Intel USB 3.0 ER 4.0.0.23 Win7)

    Sorry for the trolling – but maybe it will help someone else.

My answer:
Steve, thanks, that worked for me. I tried everything else possible and no go, until I got the driver you used.

I would like to add I even tried using the internal USB 2 ports, with the keyboard./mouse, with the install USB key and keyboard / mouse, same as USB 3 ports, work fine until Windows boots. So if anyone is thinking they can bypass the problem using the internal ports, think again.

Here is another post I made.

I used the following procedure with the drivers in the bundle:
After unzipping, I went into the Drivers\WIN7 folder, and copied the x64 folder and pasted into the WIM folder inside a folder I labeled USB3.
Then I went to the Drivers\HCSwitch\x64 directory and copied all the files from there, then pasted them into the WIM\USB3\x64 folder with the other files, not a separate folder. This worked for me after many failures. I never had a failure with the WIM process, I actually followed the Intel instructions because they tell you how to do it with a DISM GUI, so there is no possibility of mistyping a command. The GUI only issues the command line, the command line output is shown in the GUI. Worked great. I don’t want to knock the instructions above, but just saying that the Intel instructions were quite clear to me and had screenshots of every step.
 

gringott

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#34
Sorry to you southfork for hijacking this thread with bottom feeder, if you don't mind I will post a link to my original thread about the NUC, my tests and how I got Windows 7 on there for bottom feeder. Bottom feeder, if you have any questions perhaps you can post them on this old thread. Obviously, what I posted there was fresh in my memory at the time, toward the end of the thread I discuss a bit about the USB install issue. Hard to believe that was two years ago more or less.
http://www.goldismoney2.com/threads/intel-nuc-new-htpc-build-in-progress.82479/
 

Bottom Feeder

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#35
Sorry to you southfork for hijacking this thread with bottom feeder
oops, yeah, me to, sorry southfork.
Speaking of such — did you make a decision on a ssd yet?

And, thanks gringott, I'll move over to your other thread and read along there.

BF
 

southfork

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#36
oops, yeah, me to, sorry southfork.
Speaking of such — did you make a decision on a ssd yet?

And, thanks gringott, I'll move over to your other thread and read along there.

BF
no problemo, all about knowledge and learning from eacch other, would have put in computer thread but didnt realize there was one, im going to go with the ssd 256 , waiting for a black friday deal or ill build one on hp, its for wife so she needs 17 inch screen as her visions not that great.