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TAxing those that saved for retirement to pay for those that didn't starts in Illinois

edsl48

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#1
Illinois', without going into the assorted messes created by the politicians the Illinois populace elects, new Governor is proposing to merge all local police and fireman pension funds into one large fund to save on administrative costs. This makes total good sense on the surface and wonder why this wasn't instituted years ago until one recognizes that in Illinois nepotism and cronyism is the rule employed when selecting highly paid pension fund administrators. However, despite all Illinois local pension funds being underfunded, some funds are better than others. Currently many municipalities, Alton for example, are selling off City assets such as their water departments in order to get funds to pay the pensioners on a hand to mouth basis. Other funds however can be much better funded currently and as one can easily see combining the assorted funds will mean the better funds assets will be merged with the liabilities of the poorly funded plans. There you have it simple as that; the ones that prepared for the future will be robbed to pay for those that didn't and coming soon to each of us in the future. Imagine, say Sanders or Warren gets elected, and they propose merging the various State's pension funds in order to fix the mess that states like Illinois are in.
Welcome to a hint of the future, and prepare accordingly. While this may at the moment just be in Illinois it is a cancer that will spread throughout the nation because there has been no real serious attempts to move State and local public employees into a more solvent pension funding scheme.

https://www.reuters.com/article/ill...ocal-pension-fund-consolidation-idUSL2N26V19V
 

Buck

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#2
O.K.

So, they dissolve an administrative department or two, they can't terminate these employees, they're union employees and will either keep their jobs or get an early retirement

there will be no savings from doing this, it just takes the crap and covers it up with someone elses money, until that money get's crapped on, then it'll need more money...it will not end well
 

Buck

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#4
too many different pension all poorly run.
Agreed and to that end, there are too many 'investment professionals' who have no where to put their funds to grow to that 7% expected return that was never going to go away...industrialized investment strategies has failed us miserably and i'd argue it was a flawed program to begin with...how many elites have been made from the investor side of our economy???

If that were true,these 'professional investors' would not be 'professional investors' they'd all be elites...and they're not

The entire charade of the markets, the economy, our fiat, is but a ruse to cover up the criminality that has occurred over the decades
 

edsl48

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#5
O.K.

So, they dissolve an administrative department or two, they can't terminate these employees, they're union employees and will either keep their jobs or get an early retirement

there will be no savings from doing this, it just takes the crap and covers it up with someone elses money, until that money get's crapped on, then it'll need more money...it will not end well
It is not so much the rank and file employees but rather highly paid administrators that are appointed (patronage) employees who steer investments to certain high commission brokerage houses. Remember this is Illinois. Recently there was a furor regarding investments in my Illinois County that I won't bore you with. The salient point though as it applies here is that a local Arkansas Brokerage was chosen by an investment official that was swept out after an election. Why for example would a mid Illinois county do business with a never before heard of out of state brokerage house? Naturally I can understand that the Indians will still be there and there still be considerable clerical duties but this is Illinois don't forget and its the Chiefs, not the Indians that need eradicated.
 

GOLDZILLA

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#7
So the smart play is to not save then huh....
 

Buck

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#8
the other play is to go so far in debt you can't see in front of you, then walk away at the 'reset'

I'm kinda caught up with the both of them, i've used up so much of my credit, i can't pay it back with my zero saving account

what do i do now?



i'm not feeling so smart right now...
 

TAEZZAR

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#10
I've saved quite a bit and don't have any pensions. I never been a very trusting soul. Saving without a pension can be done!
I did the same & self-retired in 1992 at 50 y.o. ! I planned from a young age !
We are not rich but we don't "hurt" !
A BIG part is NO drugs & no gambling, this, alone, keeps you aware.
:2 thumbs up:
 

Cigarlover

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#12
The solution to this mess is easy, just tax everyone 100%. Everyone works for free. They get free housing and a food card so they can eat every month. The food card can be enough to get the family through 3 weeks of the month and the 4th week the wife and or daughters have to go sell themselves to put food on the table.. Works great in other socialist countries.
 

Bigjon

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#14
The solution to this mess is easy, just tax everyone 100%. Everyone works for free. They get free housing and a food card so they can eat every month. The food card can be enough to get the family through 3 weeks of the month and the 4th week the wife and or daughters have to go sell themselves to put food on the table.. Works great in other socialist countries.
Communist.
 

GOLDZILLA

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#15
The real solution is to only pay out what they got. If they run out, no more payments. declare bankruptcy.
 

GOLDZILLA

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#16
They are even going to steal 401ks to pass out to bums. I have heard they already have the law made, and all they gotta do is pass it at midnight on christmas eve when 3 democrats are in "session" like the patriot act and the federal reserve act. Thats why I got out of 401k 10 years ago.
 

BackwardsEngineeer

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#17
Much easier fix..... eliminate a whole bunch of pensioners! Everything is about bad management and life expectancy, only way to hide bad management is fix life expectancy......
 

TomD

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#18
I think that the concept of public employee pensions was a Trojan Horse to torpedo the nation (to mix a couple of metaphors). Other than public employees and some unions, defined benefit pensions are long extinct with 401's and the like taking over. Just wait until we have to bail CalPERS (California public employee pension fund) out. The average pension there is 5 times larger than in any other state with 100's of thousands of librarians, city hall clerks, code enforcement inspectors, etc., making yearly pensions far in excess of $100,000 + the best medical care anywhere for free for life.
 

Oldmansmith

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#19
https://www.providencejournal.com/n...s-in-ri-have-25-billion-in-unfunded-liability Rhode Island has the same problem, too many different pension all poorly run.
Good friend of mine is a retired Providence firefighter. He was forced to pay into the pension fund, and the city was supposed to match. They never did, spending the money on other things. They would spend money on an audit periodically, and the audit would tell them that they had to add lots of money to fully fund the pension, but they never did. Now they want to cut his pension. Do you think he is pissed off?
 

TAEZZAR

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#20
I think that the concept of public employee pensions was a Trojan Horse to torpedo the nation (to mix a couple of metaphors). Other than public employees and some unions, defined benefit pensions are long extinct with 401's and the like taking over. Just wait until we have to bail CalPERS (California public employee pension fund) out. The average pension there is 5 times larger than in any other state with 100's of thousands of librarians, city hall clerks, code enforcement inspectors, etc., making yearly pensions far in excess of $100,000 + the best medical care anywhere for free for life.
YUP, and Oregon, per capita, is not far behind. PERS (pubic employee retirement system) here in Oregon is the HIGHEST item on the state budget. No I did not make a spelling error, they are "pedejos" ! :2 thumbs up:
 

the_shootist

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#21
Good friend of mine is a retired Providence firefighter. He was forced to pay into the pension fund, and the city was supposed to match. They never did, spending the money on other things. They would spend money on an audit periodically, and the audit would tell them that they had to add lots of money to fully fund the pension, but they never did. Now they want to cut his pension. Do you think he is pissed off?
The people responsible need to be tracked down and sliced into little pieces!!!
 

solarion

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#22
The people responsible need to be tracked down and sliced into little pieces!!!
The people responsible for these insane deals that are bankrupting localities tend to be long gone by the time the shit hits the fan...why would they care? Public employees negotiating contracts on behalf of the tax slaves with other public employees. None of these people give a damn how much is wasted or what it will look like long term. There doesn't even have to be fraud, theft, extortion for this to end badly.
 

Someone_else

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#23
Good friend of mine is a retired Providence firefighter.
So he probably made a really nice income. He should have been thinking about saving for his retirement.
He was forced to pay into the pension fund, and the city was supposed to match. They never did, spending the money on other things.
He should have understood that the fund was "funny money". He was not a tax payer, he was a tax consumer. In his case, his job was a useful function. But having a job in the government sector, he should have known that government is about taking money from some people and giving it to other people. Any money not in your direct control is ... in someone else's direct control.
They would spend money on an audit periodically, and the audit would tell them that they had to add lots of money to fully fund the pension, but they never did. Now they want to cut his pension. Do you think he is pissed off?
So they were telling him that they were blowing away "his" money (that turned out not to be his.) He had plenty of warning.