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Toxic Cost of Going Green | Unreported World

Goldhedge

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Unreported World investigates the dirty business of cobalt mining in the Democratic Republic of Congo. The mineral is fuelling the planet’s green revolution, but at what cost?
 

CiscoKid

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This is a lithium mine.

lithium mine2.png




And what are they going to do with all the old batteries when they start failing?


I was playing golf with a custom builder two weeks ago. Just off the 16th green, there is a house with the roof covered with solar panels. He pointed them out and said, "You know, no landfill will take those when they wear out." Apparently, they leach something and nobody wants to take the old panels. They last about twenty years.
 

Goldbrix

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My Post on another thread:
1647638289293.png
 

CiscoKid

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Most Solar panels are made in China using child slave labor and coal power.
China is in the process of building 43 new coal-fired power plants and 18 new coal-fired blast furnaces, and the Pairs Accord committee doesn't say shit to them. https://time.com/6090732/china-coal-power-plants-emissions/ China owns us and they certainly own the Creepy Bidens from when the two of them went over there when he was VP. Here's how the ChiComs work. They quickly recognized Hunter as the morally reprehensible loser that he is, so they plied him with alcohol, illegal drugs, and underage prostitutes. They set him up lavishly in the best room in town - the one they had their cameras all over. The Chinese aren't stupid. They've had the Bidens in their power ever since. The Chinese can literally do anything they like and Pedo Joe can't say squat.

biden1.jpg
 

Buck

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can't we just toss the old units into one of those giant holes?, we'll only need one...


at first

:summer:
 

Goldhedge

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can't we just toss the old units into one of those giant holes?, we'll only need one...


at first

:summer:
I like it!

That's the spirit!

recycle.jpeg
 

Buck

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i was thinking that hole by the sea...dozer open one of them berms and let the ocean cover it all up and we'll not be plagued with the inconvenience of even having to remember its there

the (three eyed) fish will be Happy

:2 thumbs up:
 

viking

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This is a lithium mine.

View attachment 250878



And what are they going to do with all the old batteries when they start failing?


I was playing golf with a custom builder two weeks ago. Just off the 16th green, there is a house with the roof covered with solar panels. He pointed them out and said, "You know, no landfill will take those when they wear out." Apparently, they leach something and nobody wants to take the old panels. They last about twenty years.

Warranties on newer panels are typically 25 years. Good panels only degrade 0.3% per year. So after 25 years, you are still producing 93% of the original power. So you can keep the panels for a long time. Need more juice after x amount of years, add panels.
 

Casey Jones

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If we "Go Green" batteries are not gonna be included.

It's going to be streetcars (electric from overhead wires) for the urban masses (subject to disease and famine, because, of course, no petroleum->no surplus food/medicine->overcrowding and poverty->death in huge numbers.

For the rural poor, it will be horse, mule or oxen.

This kind of Green lifestyle, reduces the per-acre food yield. Which means a LOT of souls will do without...and those souls, as the air force calls them (counting bodies on planes, as in, how many souls on board) will be liberated from this mortal coil.

It's as many of us have been saying all along. But this Vaxx Follies has demonstrated...they're not only not worried about "excess mortality," they're trying to engineer more of it.
 

ZZZZZ

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My Post on another thread:
View attachment 250911
Not to mention the thousands of gallons of dirty diesel fuel to power the carbon-spewing trucks and other equipment to mine, move, process and refine the raw ore and then put it all together into a finished product.
.
.
 
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CiscoKid

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Warranties on newer panels are typically 25 years. Good panels only degrade 0.3% per year. So after 25 years, you are still producing 93% of the original power. So you can keep the panels for a long time. Need more juice after x amount of years, add panels.

They are coming off that roof in 25 years one way or the other. Unless someone has come up with 40 year shingles.
 

viking

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They are coming off that roof in 25 years one way or the other. Unless someone has come up with 40 year shingles.
Another benefit and cost savings of the panels, they protect and extend the life of the roof. If one ops for a metal roof (one example), at least 50 years and over 100 years if well maintained.

On one of my homes, the bid for metal wasn’t that much more than replacing the shingles. My parents flat roof house had the roof redone once in 63 years, that was 15 years ago. A neighbor across the street also with a flat roof just had his roof done for the first time, house was built ~1968.

But, if one does need to replace roof with panels on them, there would be labor cost of course to take them down and put back up.

He goes through some numbers, but it is San Diego where they get a lot of sun.
Up north, pay back period would be longer, but panels have gotten a lot more efficient of late. Over 400 watts/panel is common now.



 

CiscoKid

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Most Solar panels are made in China using child slave labor and coal power.


Without massive government subsidies, green energy simply doesn't work on an economic scale. Take away the goverment's printing press and nobody in their right mind would be using it.



 

D-FENZ

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Just yesterday I got an e-mail from my electricity supplier, Mid American Energy (one of Warren Buffet's cash machines), extolling the possibility and virtues of recycling fiberglass wind turbine blades. Yeah, sure. I know bullshit when I see it. Here's the link they sent in the e-mail:


And let me know when anyone, anywhere is paying anything for landfill garbage.
 

Buck

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Just yesterday I got an e-mail from my electricity supplier, Mid American Energy (one of Warren Buffet's cash machines), extolling the possibility and virtues of recycling fiberglass wind turbine blades. Yeah, sure. I know bullshit when I see it. Here's the link they sent in the e-mail:


And let me know when anyone, anywhere is paying anything for landfill garbage.
i've seen an 'ad' here? somewhere touting the ability to 'reuse' those blades and build infrastructure like a . . .

bridge

they were burying the blade ends and using the center part as the main support beams for some type of (uncompleted) bridge they had in the photos

it made no sense to me because it appeared as if there were no straight lines in that thing they were 'building', idk, it was a weird story

it'll probably end up killing someone and finally get tore out and tossed into that hole

Need more juice after x amount of years, add panels.
seeing as how, you're now a Producer, you own a production company, how are you handling your costs associated with maintenance and then there are replacement costs...do you get to write those costs off as an operating expense?

how about maintenance costs, are they deductible also?

there should be additional costs associated with any grid-tie operation, time spent, etc...now that you are a 'registered generator' you should get all the tax breaks available to the owners of a hydro station, an oil burner, etc...not quite what those nuke guys get for tax breaks and the like, but they do need special suits to perform their maintenance, we're not talking about that... but you should get something for it besides 'cheaper electricity'

you need to be turning a profit, as a generator, you should be a profit making business...


they do it, why not you?
 

viking

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seeing as how, you're now a Producer, you own a production company, how are you handling your costs associated with maintenance and then there are replacement costs...do you get to write those costs off as an operating expense?

how about maintenance costs, are they deductible also?

there should be additional costs associated with any grid-tie operation, time spent, etc...now that you are a 'registered generator' you should get all the tax breaks available to the owners of a hydro station, an oil burner, etc...not quite what those nuke guys get for tax breaks and the like, but they do need special suits to perform their maintenance, we're not talking about that... but you should get something for it besides 'cheaper electricity'

you need to be turning a profit, as a generator, you should be a profit making business...


they do it, why not you?

Depending on which route you take. If you pay a company to install, it warrantied for 20-25 years typically. So no maintenance costs. I am planning right now to buy the materials myself and hire out some of the work. Then hire an electrician to do the final hook up. So I will be responsible for doing any labor in the future if any is needed to maintain the system. Panels and inverter will be under warranty.

As far as “turning a profit.” I guess that depends how you look at it. Power company cuts you a check every year for the electricity you add to the grid + $0.04/KWh. Home value increases an average of ~ 4%, obviously only realized if one decides to sell.

But my main reason for why I’m installing solar is not monetary. Although that does help justify it. Ha. And I not happy with my current investment choices and my FRNs are losing a lot of value sitting in the bank. I assume electricity will continue to get more expensive and inflation may drive some equipment prices up too, but nevertheless, this investment will earn me a return immediately in having a reduced electric bill.

I want to be as independent as reasonably possible. My guns, ammo and other preps don’t “turn me profit.” But they do give me a little peace of mind. And I think with the energy I can produce myself, it will do that also.

Besides, I like projects and I don’t want any more of my tools to get rusty. ;)
 
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Buck

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GL and track your numbers and costs, savings, etc...any good project needs updated information to assess it's true viability
 

gnome

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And what are they going to do with all the old batteries when they start failing?
Batteries are 95%+ recyclable at a profit.
Problem for scaling is there aren't enough used EV batteries yet.

 

ZZZZZ

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Batteries are 95%+ recyclable at a profit.
Problem for scaling is there aren't enough used EV batteries yet.


Gavin Newsome is a deplorable stooge. The majority of the recent wildfires in CA are due to human causes and lightning, not global warming.
.
.
 

viking

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GL and track your numbers and costs, savings, etc...any good project needs updated information to assess it's true viability

OK, been a real education so far. Many conversations with different installers, wholesalers and retailers. And lots of reading and videos.

I narrowed down my main inverter to the 12K version of a Sol-Ark. I had some quotes on it, but did a bit of shopping around. For the heck of it, stuck it in the search engine at Fedbook Market place. Found the best price so far. Contacted the guy (Brandon), and his company is only ~40 minutes away. He had a lot of good information, and with all my searching, I never ran across his website before. Brandon really doesn’t advertise and his website is pretty basic. But his knowledge and prices are great. Says he is having a hard time keeping up with demand and has a large customer base with preppers in Alabama.

I already bought my batteries from the link here and videos review by that DIYer. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoj6RxIAQq8kmJme-5dnN0Q

But the similar battery is a fair amount cheaper with Brandon.

Anyway, so far on project: panels, batteries and standby generator bought. Just waiting for final quote on micro inverters and optimizers (MPPT & MLPE). Next will be settling on racking setup.

My brother got a quote from an outfit last summer. $33,500 for a 11,470 kWh system. Just solar, no backups, grid goes down, so does his solar. With Brandon’s prices, I could probable do ~14K system that continues to work when grid goes down for around $21,000 ($15,540 after tax credit) And the ability to add batteries and generator later. Right now there is a Federal tax credit of 26%. So subtract that for all solar equipment and labor. In my brothers case, his ROI is ~8 years as we have net metering here. And when he switches on the system, his investment will be “earning” ~15%/year. After that, basically free electricity.

Almost forgot, he has an EV, so he could build a larger system and still qualify for net metering. Then driving energy cost would be offset too. That may move up the ROI.
 
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tigerwillow1

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I already bought my batteries from the link here
I don't have the full context so not sure if this is relevant input. Most of the batteries discussed by Will will not meet the 2020 NEC requirement that batteries must be listed by a nationally recognized testing laboratory, so if your setup requires a permit, there are only a relatively small number of listed batteries that will meet the requirement. Lead acid batteries are the single exception to this requirement.
 

mtnman

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Depending on which route you take. If you pay a company to install, it warrantied for 20-25 years typically. So no maintenance costs. I am planning right now to buy the materials myself and hire out some of the work. Then hire an electrician to do the final hook up. So I will be responsible for doing any labor in the future if any is needed to maintain the system. Panels and inverter will be under warranty.

As far as “turning a profit.” I guess that depends how you look at it. Power company cuts you a check every year for the electricity you add to the grid + $0.04/KWh. Home value increases an average of ~ 4%, obviously only realized if one decides to sell.

But my main reason for why I’m installing solar is not monetary. Although that does help justify it. Ha. And I not happy with my current investment choices and my FRNs are losing a lot of value sitting in the bank. I assume electricity will continue to get more expensive and inflation may drive some equipment prices up too, but nevertheless, this investment will earn me a return immediately in having a reduced electric bill.

I want to be as independent as reasonably possible. My guns, ammo and other preps don’t “turn me profit.” But they do give me a little peace of mind. And I think with the energy I can produce myself, it will do that also.

Besides, I like projects and I don’t want any more of my tools to get rusty. ;)
Just remember "under warranty" is only good if the company is still in business...
 

Goldbrix

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Just remember "under warranty" is only good if the company is still in business...
AND 75% of businesses Fail in their 1st 7 yrs.
Especially "GREEN" Cos. Does Solyndra ring a bell ? How about Fisker ( batteries)? Barry supported a dozen failures with OUR tax money.
 
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viking

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Just remember "under warranty" is only good if the company is still in business...

Ya, like I said, I’m am a DIY project. But if warranty is your concern, go with large companies that have been in the business for a long time.
 

viking

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AND 75% of businesses Fail in their 1st 7 yrs.
Especially "GREEN" Cos. Does Solyndra ring a bell ? How about Fisker ( batteries)? Barry supported a dozen failures with OUR tax money.

How about LG, Enphase, Jinko, Generac, Tesla, etc.?
 

Goldbrix

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How about LG, Enphase, Jinko, Generac, etc.?
$$$$$$$
My brother has a Generac System (Nat.Gas) down in Florida. It did work when one of the hurricanes passed over and took out entire city blocks. His home became neighborhood head quarters. Men patrolled their neighborhood and chain sawed the downed trees out of the roadway. Women brought food from refrigerators and freezers, keep the kitchen going 24/7. Folks pull up some floor to sleep or would go to their home to come back later. Still took the electric co. 10 days to get power back to his neighborhood.
I think those solar products could not handle much a load.
The TECH aint there yet.
 

viking

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$$$$$$$
My brother has a Generac System (Nat.Gas) down in Florida. It did work when one of the hurricanes passed over and took out entire city blocks. His home became neighborhood head quarters. Men patrolled their neighborhood and chain sawed the downed trees out of the roadway. Women brought food from refrigerators and freezers, keep the kitchen going 24/7. Folks pull up some floor to sleep or would go to their home to come back later. Still took the electric co. 10 days to get power back to his neighborhood.
I think those solar products could not handle much a load.
The TECH aint there yet.

I heard they call Florida the “Sunshine State.” Colorado, though, is even better for days of sunshine.

A solar system there could easily power essentials, like refrigeration, lights, fans. You would have to be judicial with any AC usage.
 

gnome

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AND 75% of businesses Fail in their 1st 7 yrs.
Especially "GREEN" Cos. Does Solyndra ring a bell ? How about Fisker ( batteries)? Barry supported a dozen failures with OUR tax money.
The loan program that funded Solyndra turned a profit for the DOE. Amount of defaults amounted to 2-3% of the total portfolio, easily covered by interest income.
 

ZZZZZ

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The loan program that funded Solyndra turned a profit for the DOE. Amount of defaults amounted to 2-3% of the total portfolio, easily covered by interest income.

Barry's Buddies made a bundle off all the subsidies along the way.
.
.
 

gnome

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mtnman

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Ya, like I said, I’m am a DIY project. But if warranty is your concern, go with large companies that have been in the business for a long time.
They too Crash. I don't depend on warranties.
 

Goldbrix

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The loan program that funded Solyndra turned a profit for the DOE. Amount of defaults amounted to 2-3% of the total portfolio, easily covered by interest income.
I know Solyndra DID NOT send any. Fisker NEVER got the first battery out the door.
 

viking

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They too Crash. I don't depend on warranties.

I’m not depending on them. If something is bad, more than likely I’ll find out rather soon. We are talking many components here anyway. I expect someday one may fail. I can easily replace it, or just not use it anymore. The only part of the system I’d have to replace if it craps out is the main inverter/controller.
 

viking

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I don't have the full context so not sure if this is relevant input. Most of the batteries discussed by Will will not meet the 2020 NEC requirement that batteries must be listed by a nationally recognized testing laboratory, so if your setup requires a permit, there are only a relatively small number of listed batteries that will meet the requirement. Lead acid batteries are the single exception to this requirement.

All the equipment I have purchased are UL listed. And it meets the rapid shutdown requirement.
 

newmisty

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China is in the process of building 43 new coal-fired power plants and 18 new coal-fired blast furnaces, and the Pairs Accord committee doesn't say shit to them. https://time.com/6090732/china-coal-power-plants-emissions/ China owns us and they certainly own the Creepy Bidens from when the two of them went over there when he was VP. Here's how the ChiComs work. They quickly recognized Hunter as the morally reprehensible loser that he is, so they plied him with alcohol, illegal drugs, and underage prostitutes. They set him up lavishly in the best room in town - the one they had their cameras all over. The Chinese aren't stupid. They've had the Bidens in their power ever since. The Chinese can literally do anything they like and Pedo Joe can't say squat.

View attachment 250922
Too bad people are only NOW catching on.

Red October